75K02 service and some translation help
75K02 service and some translation help
I try to get a grip on the Swedish deliveries to Finland of 7cm fältkanon m/02 , also known as 75K02
My sources on the Finnish side are a bit spread out but
"Ruotsalainen nollakakkonen - aseapua lännestä" by Jyri Paulaharju in Ase-lehti magazine vol. 2/2003.
"Slaget om Suomussalmi" by Siilasvuo
From Winterwar.com I have this: I'll make one post for each Patteristo,
to be continued..
/John
My sources on the Finnish side are a bit spread out but
"Ruotsalainen nollakakkonen - aseapua lännestä" by Jyri Paulaharju in Ase-lehti magazine vol. 2/2003.
"Slaget om Suomussalmi" by Siilasvuo
From Winterwar.com I have this: I'll make one post for each Patteristo,
to be continued..
/John
Last edited by John T on 23 May 2020, 12:41, edited 1 time in total.
75K02 service - KTR 9, I Psto
Siilasvuo claims he got the first 4 guns December 16 and a second battery 18:th,
This must be KTR 9, I Psto
But I am unable to make anything out of the Patteristo war diary:
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1529828
Sotapäiväkirjat (kokoelma) > Sotapäiväkirjat-kokoelma > Talvisodan sotapäiväkirjat > Kenttätykistörykmentti 9. I patteristo 1939-1940 (SPK 1964)
The thing I do spot is :
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1529784
(Kenttätykistörykmentti 9. 2.patteri 1939-1940 (SPK 1959) )
2.patteri got their 4 Bofors guns on November 4 1939 ?
Can anyone help me with a correct translation?
Kind Regards
/John
This must be KTR 9, I Psto
But I am unable to make anything out of the Patteristo war diary:
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1529828
Sotapäiväkirjat (kokoelma) > Sotapäiväkirjat-kokoelma > Talvisodan sotapäiväkirjat > Kenttätykistörykmentti 9. I patteristo 1939-1940 (SPK 1964)
The thing I do spot is :
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1529784
(Kenttätykistörykmentti 9. 2.patteri 1939-1940 (SPK 1959) )
2.patteri got their 4 Bofors guns on November 4 1939 ?
Can anyone help me with a correct translation?
Kind Regards
/John
75K02 service - KTR 2 I Psto
According to Winterwar.com
KTR 2 I Psto had eight 75K02 guns
Patteri 1. 20/3
Do I read something about Swedish guns ?
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1524696
And
Patteri 2. 25/3
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1524752
Did they recieve the guns
#146, 147, 180,206
on that day ?
thanks in advance
/John
KTR 2 I Psto had eight 75K02 guns
Patteri 1. 20/3
Do I read something about Swedish guns ?
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1524696
And
Patteri 2. 25/3
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1524752
Did they recieve the guns
#146, 147, 180,206
on that day ?
thanks in advance
/John
75K02 - KTR 2 III Psto
According to Winterwar.com
KTR 2 III Psto had eight 75K02 guns
But I only found this in 7 patteri war diary.
March 12
Krupp guns ... ?
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1525347
( Kenttätykistörykmentti 2. 7. patteri 1940-1940 (SPK 1889) )
The patteristo war diary written in a handwriting I cant decipher:
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1525165
and no dairy for 6. patteri ?
Cheers
/John
KTR 2 III Psto had eight 75K02 guns
But I only found this in 7 patteri war diary.
March 12
Krupp guns ... ?
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1525347
( Kenttätykistörykmentti 2. 7. patteri 1940-1940 (SPK 1889) )
The patteristo war diary written in a handwriting I cant decipher:
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1525165
and no dairy for 6. patteri ?
Cheers
/John
Re: 75K02 service KTR 21 III Psto
From Winter war:
KTR 21 III Psto 12 guns
Was on 14.3.1940 still under forming
Reg Hq diary uses type writer. much easier to read
April 15
"telephone order that the cannons must be delivered to Sweden via Tornio without delay"
April 16
"Cannons sent to Sweden from Mikkeli to Tornio"
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1531109
Then we know these where returned, but I cant find when began being used by III Patteristo?
The war diaries start early april for the patteri, and the patteristo March16:th.
And III Psto did not receive other 75K02 ?
But french 1877 guns ?
May 2
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1531179
Stuff answered by the Regimental HQ:
/John
KTR 21 III Psto 12 guns
Was on 14.3.1940 still under forming
Reg Hq diary uses type writer. much easier to read
April 15
"telephone order that the cannons must be delivered to Sweden via Tornio without delay"
April 16
"Cannons sent to Sweden from Mikkeli to Tornio"
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1531109
Then we know these where returned, but I cant find when began being used by III Patteristo?
The war diaries start early april for the patteri, and the patteristo March16:th.
And III Psto did not receive other 75K02 ?
But french 1877 guns ?
May 2
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1531179
Stuff answered by the Regimental HQ:
Cheers
7.th Patteri
April 15 :
something about Sweden ?
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1531178
8.th Patteri
April 15 :
something about Sweden ?
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1531182
9.th Patteri
April 15 :
75k02, are they sent back to Sweden ?
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1531187
/John
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- Location: Finland
Re: 75K02 service - KTR 9, I Psto
I'll take the first piece of translation.
At 22 hours we arrived in Turku.
John T wrote: ↑23 May 2020, 12:32The thing I do spot is :
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1529784
(Kenttätykistörykmentti 9. 2.patteri 1939-1940 (SPK 1959) )
2.patteri got their 4 Bofors guns on November 4 1939 ?
Can anyone help me with a correct translation?
On way to south at Haapamäki station our train was added with carriages, that were loaded with our future guns 4 pieces Bofors cannons m/02.4.11.39
Matkalla etelään Haapamäen asemalla
liitettiin junaamme vaunuja, joi-
hin oli kuormattu tulevat tyk-
kimme 4 kpl Bofors kanuunoja
m/02.
Klo 22 aikaan saavuimme Turkuun.
At 22 hours we arrived in Turku.
Re: 75K02 service - KTR 9, I Psto
Thanks, SeppoSeppo Koivisto wrote: ↑24 May 2020, 09:54I'll take the first piece of translation.John T wrote: ↑23 May 2020, 12:32The thing I do spot is :
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1529784
(Kenttätykistörykmentti 9. 2.patteri 1939-1940 (SPK 1959) )
2.patteri got their 4 Bofors guns on November 4 1939 ?
Can anyone help me with a correct translation?On way to south at Haapamäki station our train was added with carriages, that were loaded with our future guns 4 pieces Bofors cannons m/02.4.11.39
Matkalla etelään Haapamäen asemalla
liitettiin junaamme vaunuja, joi-
hin oli kuormattu tulevat tyk-
kimme 4 kpl Bofors kanuunoja
m/02.
Klo 22 aikaan saavuimme Turkuun.
At 22 hours we arrived in Turku.
Only 5 of the 12 guns delivered in October were produced by Bofors.
The others one Krupp and six from Fingspong
Reading "Slaget om Suomussalmi" by Siilasvuo he claims that only two batteries were in action the first week of January.
Is this due to the third battery used on the north side of the motti and not under Siilasvuo command?
So what it looks like now is that only I/KTR9 used their guns during the war and shot some 15 00 rounds.
Cheers
/John
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- Location: Finland
Re: 75K02 service - KTR 2 I Psto
John T wrote: ↑23 May 2020, 12:41Patteri 1. 20/3
Do I read something about Swedish guns ?
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1524696
Swedish gun sledges proved to be bad on forest roads, as guns often falled down.20. Ruotsalaiset tykkireet osoittautuivat huonoiksi metsäteillä, sillä tykit kaatuivat usein.
Battery received new guns. They are Swedish 75 mm K m/02 used, but in satisfactory condition. Numbers 146, 147, 180 and 206.25.3 20.00 Patteri sai uudet tykit. Ne ovat ruotsalaiset 75 mm K m/02 käytety, mutta tyydyttävässä kunnossa. Numerot 146, 147, 180 ja 206.
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- Location: Finland
Re: 75K02 - KTR 2 III Psto
John T wrote: ↑23 May 2020, 13:47March 12
Krupp guns ... ?
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1525347
( Kenttätykistörykmentti 2. 7. patteri 1940-1940 (SPK 1889) )
Guns were exchanged for Krupp guns.2.3.40 Tykit vaihdettiin Kruppin tykkeihin.
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- Location: Finland
Re: 75K02 service KTR 21 III Psto
John T wrote: ↑23 May 2020, 15:39And III Psto did not receive other 75K02 ?
But french 1877 guns ?
May 2
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1531179
Battery received new guns with front carriages (French model 1877)2.5.40 Ptri sai uudet tykit etuvaunuineen (Ransk. malli 1877)
John T wrote: ↑23 May 2020, 15:397.th Patteri
April 15 :
something about Sweden ?
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1531178
We gave away Swedish guns m 02.15.4 21.00 luovutimme ruotsalaisten tykkikaluston m 02.
John T wrote: ↑23 May 2020, 15:398.th Patteri
April 15 :
something about Sweden ?
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1531182
The equipment ordered to be returned to Sweden were sent to Bralen(?). Commander of the detachment reserve 2Lt V. J. Valovirta.15.4.40 Lähetettiin takaisin Ruotsiin luovutettavaksi määrätty kalusto Braleniin(?). Komennuskunnan johtajana res. vänr. V. J. Valovirta.
John T wrote: ↑23 May 2020, 15:399.th Patteri
April 15 :
75k02, are they sent back to Sweden ?
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1531187[/i]
75 K/02 with all equipment were returned to Sweden.17.4.40 Luovutettiin 75 K/02 kaikkine varusteineen Ruotsiin.
Re: 75K02 service and some translation help
Sorry for my very late response
and thanks again Seppo.
I got stuck on the ammo deliveries 75mm Swedish Ground ammo, Anit Air ammo, and different versions of Bofors ammo produced on the Argentina contract.
So for the units In order of appearance:
Blue Text- from "Svenska friviliga i Finland"
I/KTR 9
War Diary of 2. Patteri 4 November 1939, The train with the unit added wagons with 4 guns from Sweden at Haapamäki railway station.
Frontline Service: Two Patteri to Suomisalmi, one to Kuhmo between 16-19 December Patteristo ended war in Kuhmo
SFK
Organized during January - February 1940 i Kemi,
1 & 2. Battery in I.& II. Stridsgrupp at the front 26:th of February to replace JR 40 at Mäkäjärvi
III/KTR 2
War diary of 7. patteri - received Krupp guns 12 March
I/KTR 2
War diary of 1. patteri notes Swedish guns were unstable on skis 20 March
2. patteri got their guns 25 March (# 146,147,180, 206)
III/KTR 21
Set up in Hemenlinna, March 7 Swedish volunteers Captain Centerwall, Ltn Salomon, and Ltn Söderlund
Preliminary reconnaissance for frontline deployment om the 11:th of march but never implemented
Patteristo War diary noted, gun returned to Sweden April 17:th
III/KTR 23
Organized in Pomarkku With Sektionskommendant Nyman, Ltn Kjellander, fänkrik Holmdal, and Bråkenheim arrived march 10:th.
GHQ requested frontline deployment on the 11:th but the unit was not complete, test firing took place on the 15:th. The Swedish instructors left April 4:th.
Different sources say differently about KTR 23 equipment, Seems like they mainly trained with 114H18.
So in total, I found the following from Swedish sources:
The Column "Royal command" is The date and quantities Allowed by the Swedish Government.
(Legally the King of Sweden formally signed all major )
The Column internal documents are confirmed delivered from different Swedish archival sources.
Found out that this was wrong:
It was the continuous deliveries to keep the 7cm guns in frontline service, with 600 rounds per gun and month.
But the question if they ever were delivered remains.
On April 12 Sweden closed the border for arms export to Finland (until 27:th).
And asked to get 36 75k02 guns back but no references to ground ammo.
The m/30 AA-battery used by SFK, used an older type of ammo in limited supply, so there Sweden explicitly asked for guns with ammo.
The equipment returned from Finland and sent from Boden on May 9:th or earlier:
12 Guns SFK Received at A3 Kristianstad 14/4 1940
With 1400 rounds, that's fairly close to one battery combat loadout that crossed the border by misstake.
24 Finnish State
.. 12 from III/KTR 21
.. 12 unknown Finnish unit (Or in storage)
Of these 24
.. 12 sent to Stockholms Tygstation
.. 12 sent to Karlsborgs Tygstation
"Ruotsalainen nollakakkonen - aseapua lännestä" by Jyri Paulaharju in Ase-lehti magazine vol. 2/2003.
Says 36 guns remained in Finnish service.
That is 72 guns in total between October 1939 and early March 1940.
So whether the 12 guns that differ between most Finnish and Swedish accounting were secret or just an administrative hiccup is open for discussion.
Given the railway situation between Boden - Torneo and the rest of Finland, I can't rule out they had remained on the rail all the time, somewhere between Boden Södra Railway station and a Finnish Training unit.
Easy to understand if the guns were sidetracked while Karelina refugees got higher priority.
Kind Regards
/John
and thanks again Seppo.
I got stuck on the ammo deliveries 75mm Swedish Ground ammo, Anit Air ammo, and different versions of Bofors ammo produced on the Argentina contract.
So for the units In order of appearance:
Blue Text- from "Svenska friviliga i Finland"
I/KTR 9
War Diary of 2. Patteri 4 November 1939, The train with the unit added wagons with 4 guns from Sweden at Haapamäki railway station.
Frontline Service: Two Patteri to Suomisalmi, one to Kuhmo between 16-19 December Patteristo ended war in Kuhmo
SFK
Organized during January - February 1940 i Kemi,
1 & 2. Battery in I.& II. Stridsgrupp at the front 26:th of February to replace JR 40 at Mäkäjärvi
III/KTR 2
War diary of 7. patteri - received Krupp guns 12 March
I/KTR 2
War diary of 1. patteri notes Swedish guns were unstable on skis 20 March
2. patteri got their guns 25 March (# 146,147,180, 206)
III/KTR 21
Set up in Hemenlinna, March 7 Swedish volunteers Captain Centerwall, Ltn Salomon, and Ltn Söderlund
Preliminary reconnaissance for frontline deployment om the 11:th of march but never implemented
Patteristo War diary noted, gun returned to Sweden April 17:th
III/KTR 23
Organized in Pomarkku With Sektionskommendant Nyman, Ltn Kjellander, fänkrik Holmdal, and Bråkenheim arrived march 10:th.
GHQ requested frontline deployment on the 11:th but the unit was not complete, test firing took place on the 15:th. The Swedish instructors left April 4:th.
Different sources say differently about KTR 23 equipment, Seems like they mainly trained with 114H18.
So in total, I found the following from Swedish sources:
The Column "Royal command" is The date and quantities Allowed by the Swedish Government.
(Legally the King of Sweden formally signed all major )
The Column internal documents are confirmed delivered from different Swedish archival sources.
Found out that this was wrong:
The ammo deliveries in March were agreed on after the war ended and I understand it as being the quantities not used up by SFK.
Most of the 24 000 rounds approved for delivery in January "as needed" had not crossed the border so they made a new contract with Finnish State to deliver the rest.
It was the continuous deliveries to keep the 7cm guns in frontline service, with 600 rounds per gun and month.
But the question if they ever were delivered remains.
On April 12 Sweden closed the border for arms export to Finland (until 27:th).
And asked to get 36 75k02 guns back but no references to ground ammo.
The m/30 AA-battery used by SFK, used an older type of ammo in limited supply, so there Sweden explicitly asked for guns with ammo.
The equipment returned from Finland and sent from Boden on May 9:th or earlier:
12 Guns SFK Received at A3 Kristianstad 14/4 1940
With 1400 rounds, that's fairly close to one battery combat loadout that crossed the border by misstake.
24 Finnish State
.. 12 from III/KTR 21
.. 12 unknown Finnish unit (Or in storage)
Of these 24
.. 12 sent to Stockholms Tygstation
.. 12 sent to Karlsborgs Tygstation
"Ruotsalainen nollakakkonen - aseapua lännestä" by Jyri Paulaharju in Ase-lehti magazine vol. 2/2003.
Says 36 guns remained in Finnish service.
That is 72 guns in total between October 1939 and early March 1940.
So whether the 12 guns that differ between most Finnish and Swedish accounting were secret or just an administrative hiccup is open for discussion.
Given the railway situation between Boden - Torneo and the rest of Finland, I can't rule out they had remained on the rail all the time, somewhere between Boden Södra Railway station and a Finnish Training unit.
Easy to understand if the guns were sidetracked while Karelina refugees got higher priority.
Kind Regards
/John