Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

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Peter89
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Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#16

Post by Peter89 » 22 Jan 2020, 21:02

Aida1 wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 20:31
Peter89 wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 19:06
Okay guys, let's make this short. Nobody wanted to attack Germany in the 1930's. In fact, the whole 1930's was about giving concessions to Germany without a war. The wise statesmen of Europe realized that a new war could only bring the total downfall of the continent from its world-leading role it held for centuries.

The world was changing. Japan and the USA were emerging as great powers, the colonial empires scrumbled, and thechnology made every kind of weaponry obsolate. The German nuclear bomb, radar and rocket projects - which were btw not even regulated by the Versailles Treaty - were the military blockbusters then. You no longer needed hoards of raw materials and vast colonies of poor population to sell your industry's products.

The Germans were so deeply traumatized by the lost WW1 that a lot of them wanted a rematch. It was such a good idea that in the end the Eastern style poverty came up to Vienna and Berlin. Germany and Japan - even now! - are two prominent nations in world economy; a feat they achieved after millions of dead, nuclear attacks, firestormed cities, another territorial losses, etc. Italy produces more than Russia.

Nobody wanted to attack Germany prior the WW2.
No thruth in this. War can happen particularly when you are militarily weak .
It didn't happen and there is no proof that it would happen. So it is truth.
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."

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Aida1
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Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#17

Post by Aida1 » 22 Jan 2020, 22:42

Peter89 wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 21:02
Aida1 wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 20:31
Peter89 wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 19:06
Okay guys, let's make this short. Nobody wanted to attack Germany in the 1930's. In fact, the whole 1930's was about giving concessions to Germany without a war. The wise statesmen of Europe realized that a new war could only bring the total downfall of the continent from its world-leading role it held for centuries.

The world was changing. Japan and the USA were emerging as great powers, the colonial empires scrumbled, and thechnology made every kind of weaponry obsolate. The German nuclear bomb, radar and rocket projects - which were btw not even regulated by the Versailles Treaty - were the military blockbusters then. You no longer needed hoards of raw materials and vast colonies of poor population to sell your industry's products.

The Germans were so deeply traumatized by the lost WW1 that a lot of them wanted a rematch. It was such a good idea that in the end the Eastern style poverty came up to Vienna and Berlin. Germany and Japan - even now! - are two prominent nations in world economy; a feat they achieved after millions of dead, nuclear attacks, firestormed cities, another territorial losses, etc. Italy produces more than Russia.

Nobody wanted to attack Germany prior the WW2.
No thruth in this. War can happen particularly when you are militarily weak .
It didn't happen and there is no proof that it would happen. So it is truth.
It would if Germany is weak and can be overrun easily. So no truth in it.


Peter89
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Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#18

Post by Peter89 » 23 Jan 2020, 00:24

Aida1 wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 22:42
Peter89 wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 21:02
Aida1 wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 20:31
Peter89 wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 19:06
Okay guys, let's make this short. Nobody wanted to attack Germany in the 1930's. In fact, the whole 1930's was about giving concessions to Germany without a war. The wise statesmen of Europe realized that a new war could only bring the total downfall of the continent from its world-leading role it held for centuries.

The world was changing. Japan and the USA were emerging as great powers, the colonial empires scrumbled, and thechnology made every kind of weaponry obsolate. The German nuclear bomb, radar and rocket projects - which were btw not even regulated by the Versailles Treaty - were the military blockbusters then. You no longer needed hoards of raw materials and vast colonies of poor population to sell your industry's products.

The Germans were so deeply traumatized by the lost WW1 that a lot of them wanted a rematch. It was such a good idea that in the end the Eastern style poverty came up to Vienna and Berlin. Germany and Japan - even now! - are two prominent nations in world economy; a feat they achieved after millions of dead, nuclear attacks, firestormed cities, another territorial losses, etc. Italy produces more than Russia.

Nobody wanted to attack Germany prior the WW2.
No thruth in this. War can happen particularly when you are militarily weak .
It didn't happen and there is no proof that it would happen. So it is truth.
It would if Germany is weak and can be overrun easily. So no truth in it.
Okay. Which country wanted to invade Germany in 1939?
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."

Kelvin
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Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#19

Post by Kelvin » 23 Jan 2020, 05:01

Hi, Aida1, I absolutely endorse your viewpoint.

Peter89
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Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#20

Post by Peter89 » 23 Jan 2020, 08:12

Kelvin wrote:
23 Jan 2020, 05:01
Hi, Aida1, I absolutely endorse your viewpoint.
You can give me the name of the country which wanted to attack Germany too. :milwink:
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."

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Aida1
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Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#21

Post by Aida1 » 23 Jan 2020, 10:39

Peter89 wrote:
23 Jan 2020, 08:12
Kelvin wrote:
23 Jan 2020, 05:01
Hi, Aida1, I absolutely endorse your viewpoint.
You can give me the name of the country which wanted to attack Germany too. :milwink:
Several when Germany would want to retake the territories lost.

Peter89
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Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#22

Post by Peter89 » 23 Jan 2020, 12:47

Aida1 wrote:
23 Jan 2020, 10:39
Peter89 wrote:
23 Jan 2020, 08:12
Kelvin wrote:
23 Jan 2020, 05:01
Hi, Aida1, I absolutely endorse your viewpoint.
You can give me the name of the country which wanted to attack Germany too. :milwink:
Several when Germany would want to retake the territories lost.
You mean none. Okay, let's move on.
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."

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doogal
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Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#23

Post by doogal » 13 Feb 2020, 21:54

Struggling to see how a few lines in a memoir adds up to Guderian having a plan for the conquest of Africa... It would seem that he was echoing Admiral Raeders approach of a comprehensive Mediterranean campaign which would have required the North African coast line to be occupied to deny the British any possible manoeuvre. As it turned out Germany did have the capacity to transport troops and material to the African coast both in 41/42/ and when the tide had turned in the allies favour they could still re-inforce with the 5th Pzr Army (total waste at that point) I do think it points to the fact that a sustained German effort aimed at British med positions was feasible.

corbulo
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Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#24

Post by corbulo » 27 Feb 2020, 15:42

Aida1 wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 20:31
Peter89 wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 19:06
Okay guys, let's make this short. Nobody wanted to attack Germany in the 1930's. In fact, the whole 1930's was about giving concessions to Germany without a war. The wise statesmen of Europe realized that a new war could only bring the total downfall of the continent from its world-leading role it held for centuries.

The world was changing. Japan and the USA were emerging as great powers, the colonial empires scrumbled, and thechnology made every kind of weaponry obsolate. The German nuclear bomb, radar and rocket projects - which were btw not even regulated by the Versailles Treaty - were the military blockbusters then. You no longer needed hoards of raw materials and vast colonies of poor population to sell your industry's products.

The Germans were so deeply traumatized by the lost WW1 that a lot of them wanted a rematch. It was such a good idea that in the end the Eastern style poverty came up to Vienna and Berlin. Germany and Japan - even now! - are two prominent nations in world economy; a feat they achieved after millions of dead, nuclear attacks, firestormed cities, another territorial losses, etc. Italy produces more than Russia.

Nobody wanted to attack Germany prior the WW2.
No thruth in this. War can happen particularly when you are militarily weak .
There do need to be reasons, though. AS well as a need to maintain a balance ofm power

Erwinn
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Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#25

Post by Erwinn » 26 Jun 2020, 13:03

Germany could have overrun Tunisia at any given point in 1941, except they didn't because it was ran by Vichy France, which were simply a puppet of the Germans.

ChristopherPerrien
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Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#26

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 27 Jun 2020, 05:50

Lost on "Guderian" ever wanting to conquerer' Africa'

Kelvin
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Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#27

Post by Kelvin » 09 Sep 2020, 11:53

ChristopherPerrien wrote:
27 Jun 2020, 05:50
Lost on "Guderian" ever wanting to conquerer' Africa'
I think Guderian wanted to finish French and British enemies before going to Russian campaign. Conquering British and French colonies in Africa is much more easier than going to Russia. The size of French and British colonial empire were also attractive in comparison with Russian empire but expedition to French colonial empire is less dangerous.

DOGTAG44
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Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#28

Post by DOGTAG44 » 26 Oct 2020, 23:11

As far as I am led to believe Guderian was in favour of Raeders Mediterranean approach. Which would have eventually led to pushing Britain out of the middle Sea.

ChristopherPerrien
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Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#29

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 27 Oct 2020, 00:29

Kelvin wrote:
09 Sep 2020, 11:53
ChristopherPerrien wrote:
27 Jun 2020, 05:50
Lost on "Guderian" ever wanting to conquerer' Africa'
I think Guderian wanted to finish French and British enemies before going to Russian campaign. Conquering British and French colonies in Africa is much more easier than going to Russia. The size of French and British colonial empire were also attractive in comparison with Russian empire but expedition to French colonial empire is less dangerous.
French Enemies? Ever heard of Vichy France? The British were attacking French ships and ports by that time. And as to attacking Britsh possessions in Africa? well no, otherwise the germans would have sent more naval and air support to remove the English from their 'pond" the Mediterranean sea.
Actually why the Germans went to Africa was to shore up the Italian African Empire , with two divisions IIRC that made up the "Africa Korps". It grew from there. Sadly they should have sent a staff officer to comand the Africa Korps rather than that busybody tactical genius Rommel. They probably would have done better.

Now I am many years out of the loop about WWII and this forum. I would appreciate it if anyone knows what Guderian thought of Rommel and why he was sent to Africa, rather than staff college or at least to train cadre in prep for the great pre-emptive strike against the growing Russian Bear, rather than making sure Libya was secure for the Italians and to back up Vichy French possessions.

Kelvin
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Posts: 3117
Joined: 06 Apr 2007, 15:49

Re: Guderian plan for conquest of Africa

#30

Post by Kelvin » 27 Oct 2020, 12:07

ChristopherPerrien wrote:
27 Oct 2020, 00:29
Kelvin wrote:
09 Sep 2020, 11:53
ChristopherPerrien wrote:
27 Jun 2020, 05:50
Lost on "Guderian" ever wanting to conquerer' Africa'
I think Guderian wanted to finish French and British enemies before going to Russian campaign. Conquering British and French colonies in Africa is much more easier than going to Russia. The size of French and British colonial empire were also attractive in comparison with Russian empire but expedition to French colonial empire is less dangerous.
French Enemies? Ever heard of Vichy France? The British were attacking French ships and ports by that time. And as to attacking Britsh possessions in Africa? well no, otherwise the germans would have sent more naval and air support to remove the English from their 'pond" the Mediterranean sea.
Actually why the Germans went to Africa was to shore up the Italian African Empire , with two divisions IIRC that made up the "Africa Korps". It grew from there. Sadly they should have sent a staff officer to comand the Africa Korps rather than that busybody tactical genius Rommel. They probably would have done better.

Now I am many years out of the loop about WWII and this forum. I would appreciate it if anyone knows what Guderian thought of Rommel and why he was sent to Africa, rather than staff college or at least to train cadre in prep for the great pre-emptive strike against the growing Russian Bear, rather than making sure Libya was secure for the Italians and to back up Vichy French possessions.
Hello, Guderian mentioned in his memoir saying that he is not optimisstic over French armistice and he suggested two options : one is totally disarmed French military and takeover of French fleet and colonies, another is treat French as ally, keep its soveignity and territorial integrity.

He also mentioned takeover of French vital key points in the Meditterean and Malta. He predicted British military presence is Egypt is insignificant. Attacking both colonies including Egypt and Malta is viable option. He just blamed Hitler not doing this because his mistrustful of Mussolini.

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