JU 52 gun ship ?

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Brady
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JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by Brady » 07 Feb 2021 21:44

Is this real?

Image

Peter89
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Re: JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by Peter89 » 08 Feb 2021 07:21

I love that bin attached to the bottom of the plane lol
“And while I am talking to you, mothers and fathers, I give you one more assurance. I have said this before, but I shall say it again, and again and again. Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars." - FDR, October 1940

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Ironmachine
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Re: JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by Ironmachine » 08 Feb 2021 08:10

There is a previous thread about this same picture, but not much further information was provided:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=243267

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Ironmachine
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Re: JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by Ironmachine » 08 Feb 2021 08:18

For what it's worth, this "version" of the Ju-52 is mentioned in Bill Green's Warplanes of the Third Reich: the book states that 12 x Ju-52/3m4ge's were modified in 1941 as escorts with heavier armamen. They carried the open dorsal MG-15, a manually operated turret with a 20 mm MG-151, two beam-mounted MG-15s, and the ventral 'dustbin' from the bomber version. They were assigned to the II/KG z. b. V. 1 in Crete and flew supply missions for Rommel.
Still, no photos that I know of.
Regards.

Peter89
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Re: JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by Peter89 » 08 Feb 2021 12:05

Ironmachine wrote:
08 Feb 2021 08:18
For what it's worth, this "version" of the Ju-52 is mentioned in Bill Green's Warplanes of the Third Reich: the book states that 12 x Ju-52/3m4ge's were modified in 1941 as escorts with heavier armamen. They carried the open dorsal MG-15, a manually operated turret with a 20 mm MG-151, two beam-mounted MG-15s, and the ventral 'dustbin' from the bomber version. They were assigned to the II/KG z. b. V. 1 in Crete and flew supply missions for Rommel.
Still, no photos that I know of.
Regards.
For me it seems like that uneconomical airlift was made further uneconomical. Seems like a bit funny, especially that open basket at the bottom of the plane :lol:
“And while I am talking to you, mothers and fathers, I give you one more assurance. I have said this before, but I shall say it again, and again and again. Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars." - FDR, October 1940

ju55dk
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Re: JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by ju55dk » 08 Feb 2021 15:01

It's pure fantasy.
Junker

Brady
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Re: JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by Brady » 08 Feb 2021 17:00

Well, the Ventral gunner was a "thing" on the Bomber variant:



Image

The ventral ‘dustbin’ turret, as fitted to the Ju 52/3m. It is seen here extended beneath the corrugated metal fuselage and fitted in standard configuration with a 7.92 mm MG 15 machine gun. The turret proved questionable, both in terms of operation and the level of defence it provided. It was exposed and dangerous for the gunner and induced drag. The turret was withdrawn from later Ju 52/3ms

Forsyth, Robert. Ju 52/3m Bomber and Transport Units 1936-41 (Combat Aircraft) (p. 39). Bloomsbury Publishing. Kindle Edition.

Peter89
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Re: JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by Peter89 » 09 Feb 2021 09:39

Brady wrote:
08 Feb 2021 17:00
Well, the Ventral gunner was a "thing" on the Bomber variant:



Image

The ventral ‘dustbin’ turret, as fitted to the Ju 52/3m. It is seen here extended beneath the corrugated metal fuselage and fitted in standard configuration with a 7.92 mm MG 15 machine gun. The turret proved questionable, both in terms of operation and the level of defence it provided. It was exposed and dangerous for the gunner and induced drag. The turret was withdrawn from later Ju 52/3ms

Forsyth, Robert. Ju 52/3m Bomber and Transport Units 1936-41 (Combat Aircraft) (p. 39). Bloomsbury Publishing. Kindle Edition.
Wow. It's funny because I've read that book, but this picture didn't stuck.
“And while I am talking to you, mothers and fathers, I give you one more assurance. I have said this before, but I shall say it again, and again and again. Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars." - FDR, October 1940

Sid Guttridge
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Re: JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 09 Feb 2021 11:44

Hi Guys,

Such ventral gun "bins" were quite common in the 1930s. The British Handley-Page Hendon, the French Leo H-25 and Italian SM81 all had them.

Cheers,

Sid.

gebhk
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Re: JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by gebhk » 09 Feb 2021 12:04

As well as the JU86

Sid Guttridge
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Re: JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 09 Feb 2021 12:25

Hi gebhk,

Yup.

It is such a belt-and-braces design solution, I felt sure that the Soviet Tupolev/Antonov bombers of the 1930s must have tried it, but I can find no evidence of this.

Cheers,

Sid.

Brady
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Re: JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by Brady » 09 Feb 2021 15:24

So, the consensus is that they did exist ?

They were called: Ju-52/3m4ge ?

And only 12 were made, and that they used the same turret that the FW 200 condors and BV 138 had for the 20 mm cannon ?

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Grzesio
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Re: JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by Grzesio » 09 Feb 2021 17:35

Brady wrote:
09 Feb 2021 15:24
And only 12 were made, and that they used the same turret that the FW 200 condors and BV 138 had for the 20 mm cannon ?
Manfred Griehl suspected, it was a HD 151/20 turret.

Brady
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Re: JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by Brady » 09 Feb 2021 18:03

Grzesio wrote:
09 Feb 2021 17:35
Brady wrote:
09 Feb 2021 15:24
And only 12 were made, and that they used the same turret that the FW 200 condors and BV 138 had for the 20 mm cannon ?
Manfred Griehl suspected, it was a HD 151/20 turret.
Image

?

Sid Guttridge
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Re: JU 52 gun ship ?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 09 Feb 2021 19:11

Hi Guys,

The illustration above in Post #1 was presumably based on something.

Do the markings ND+AN tell us anything?

Cheers,

Sid

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