Fate of Oskar Dirlewanger

[Sergey Romanov]

A post violating the rules and off topic post was removed

/Georg

[sekudlyda]

A post violating the rules and was off topic was removed

/Georg

[Hans1906]

Naming a member like "history1" and me "Revisionisten" is wrong.

I am very sorry, "history1" is not posting in this forum anymore, probably the best decision.

Hans1906

[Jan-Hendrik]

I think he was banned...

Jan-Hendrik

[Poot]

I think he was banned...

Jan-Hendrik

Correct.

[Hans1906]

I think it is unfortunate to ban a long time forum member like "history1", many will miss his sound contributions, very sure.

A good and upright man, certainly sometimes uncomfortable, but that is precisely the rare "salt in the soup", for which he has my respect.

Hans1906

[David Thompson]

Let's get back to the thread subject -- the fate of Oskar Dirlewanger.

[Orlov]

The above is something very significant that is often overlooked in the usual descriptions one reads about the Dirlewanger Special Formation, ... their despair at their unavoidable fate by inflicting suffering on others.

Lots of criminals in SS-Sdr.Kdo, D., but most Asozialen. and from 1944, disciplinarily convicted soldiers of W-SS, WH, LW, even KG sailors. I found more Sinti and even one of „Jenische” in Dirlewanger unit - Heidrun Helwig, Erstmals "Stolperstein" in Gießen für Jenischen [in:] „Gießener Anzeiger” 14.11.2017 [in:] https://www.giessener-anzeiger.de/lokal ... n_18316090
SAPMO-BAB documents - interesting, but most from AHF will think it's communist bull-shit - but interesting memoires of KPD funk in NS German unit. And even interesting documents of the Czechoslovak secret police StB. There is an indication that even the most normal German, who went to Dirlewanger for Rassenchande with a Pole - he picked up the Mauser when it was necessary, he shot two Hungarians (old husband and old wife) who did not leave their village as part of the evacuation It was important to be aware - if you don't kill you, they will kill you - and in Slovakia, the lives of these Germans did not matter anymore.
High losses only during fighting on the ostfront near Dretun and the Warsaw Uprising - for the entire period of Belarus and "Bandenbekampfung" - low losses - hence "the tourist trips" for SS-HA officers.

Is there any reason to believe that the story told by Dirlewanger during his interrogation by an SS court on 1 September 1942 was true?

By that date, all three of the extermination camps under Globocnik's command were in full operation, and the procedure there was similar to that described by Dirlewanger, ... without having been given permission to do so.

This is one of the last of documents in Dirlewanger's disciplinary case.
Two hundred pages of German documents - it's a real firecracker. There was conflict between SSPF Lublin and KdS Lublin - rivalries between factions in the SS, and also Dirlewanger - he'll pop up like a jack-in-the-box - landed in Lublin and suddenly he appeared and began to mixed (with his spy network in Lublin Ghetto) - but all Germans in Lublin did not like his 16-year-old Sara Bergmann (Jewish servant and translator) - it was Rassenschande by Dirlewanger. Plus, let's not forget about a case in one Austrian courts - an Austrian doctor performed strychnine injections on the orders of Dirlewanger.
PS: I would forget about German-Austrian corruption, ordering a horse harness via Jews by the SS officers or giving a pedicure. Plus news about "King of Lublin Ghetto - Shama Grayer".

[Herr Bubikopf]

..did not like his 16-year-old Sara Bergmann (Jewish servant and translator)..

[Herr Bubikopf]

Die Tat als Bild: Fotografien des Holocaust in der deutschen Erinnerungskultur

Habbo Knoch

Hamburger Edition, 2001 - 1120 Seiten

661

Dann betritt ein junges , unschuldiges Mädchen die Bühne , die , von französischer Musik beschwingt , an einem Türrahmen dem von den Franzosen besetzten Rathaus gegenüber lehnt . Die angedeutete Erotik wird jäh durch Schreie unterbrochen , die Mutter schickt ihr Kind » in die Dunkelheit des Hauses « . Nur ihr , der die Schrecken des Krieges vertraut sind , ist zuzumuten , was nun folgt : Französische Soldaten treiben einen Mann auf den Marktplatz . Erst als er , angetrieben von seinen Bewachern , wild sein eigenes Grab zu schaufeln beginnt - durchaus ein Zitat der entsprechenden Bilder von NS - Verbrechen - , erkennt die Frau sein Gesicht : » Eine wüste Visage . Die Physiognomie einer Krähe . Schwärzliche Augen , die sich weißlich verdrehten . [ . . . ] Schlaffe Haut , scharfe Kerben , schüttere Haare . Der ganze Kerl strahlte Widerwärtigkeit aus . «
Die hübsche Unschuld im Haus , die Verbrechergestalt auf dem Platz , brutale Besatzungssoldaten und eine Frau , die zugleich » instinktive Abwehr « und » Mitleid « verspürt und hofft , daß es bald vorbei ist : eine Szene angefüllt mit Bildern , die ambivalente Identifikationen und ...

..Der Mann wird nicht erschossen , stirbt aber in der gleichen Nacht . Es handelte sich , so die Todesanzeige , um Oskar Dirlewanger , » Oberst der SS « , und natürlich » hatte ihn Altshausen ( keiner ) gekannt « .
Der Leser wird umgehend mit Dirlewanger bekannt gemacht : ein » Ungeheuer und Menschenschlächter « , ein Mann mit vielen Gesichtern und Geschichten , der in Altshausen einen » Tapetenwechsel « versucht hatte . Erfahren darin , sich selbst zu verstellen..

[Orlov]

Herr Bubikopf! Please facts - not literature!

[Hyena22]

What happened to his grave site? I've seen the supposed makeshift grave of his, but his body was exhumed in 1960 to check it was him correct? Can't find any information as to what happened to his body or burial site after this, any information would be appreciated

[Hans1906]

Is it important to know where exactly the mortal remains met their end, I think not.
In death there is no more guilt, not even for a murderer, a war criminal.

Even as a non-Christian person, I believe that the dead should be allowed to rest, and it is certainly a good thing that the man's grave is not known.
That is the final limit for me personally, and there is no difference for me between perpetrator, and a victim.

This may read skewed, but this is my personal opinion, devastated gravesites there were more than enough, before and after 1945, in death we are all equal.
You may like to attack me for this view, but everything must have an end, even a war criminal.
If not, then we will still be talking about this topic in a thousand years.

Hans1906

* And yes, of course I have an opinion of my own, it may be contrary, and if I didn't hold it, I might as well drop the big black flap about me.
I think of the many Jewish cemeteries I had to see, or wanted to see.
They were always very special moments, I don't want to miss those moments.

[Orlov]

The current gravedigger in Altshausen would not say anything in 2016 - typical in Germany for difficult matters.
Nobody told Dirlewanger to dig graves - bludgeoned to death and buried by gravedigger Thaddeus Hund.
After exhumation and pathological research in Freiburg - two possibilities - the remains were buried anonymously somewhere in Freiburg, or returned to the cemetery in Althausen - to the only one such grave there, in Altshausen.

You may like to attack me for this view, but everything must have an end, even a war criminal. Hans1906

Dear Hans 1906 - Only that the Germans should remember not only their own soldiers, but also the murdered victims by WH, W-SS, LW, KG - I am currently discussing with the Russians about commemoration of the forgotten victims of the German ("Wagner's") genocide in stalags and oflags for Red Army soldiers in 1941-1942. Will we wait until the German government comes up with a proposal to honor the forgotten 3 million Soviet soldiers murdered by starvation - traditionally most of these camps in the General Government. Excuse me for the digression in this thread on "the other graves".
PS: I can bet for a good Single Malt that I will not get a reply from the German embassy on this matter.

[Hans1906]

Orlov,

my first personal encounter with a Jewish cemetery happened in the early 1970s.
It was the Jewish Cemetery Nordeck, for us young students of a boarding school in the small village of Nordeck at that time certainly a formative experience.

The many toppled and half-destroyed gravestones, we young people had never seen anything like that before.
I still have the impressions of that time very clearly in my memory.
A memorable place in the middle of a large forest area, we children knew almost nothing about the time before 1945, but this first encounter has left a deep impression.

Nordeck (Stadt Allendorf (Lumda), Kreis Gießen)
Jüdischer Friedhof
Link: https://www.alemannia-judaica.de/nordeck_friedhof.htm

I can recommend a visit to such places of remembrance to each of us.
If it should be possible for me, then I will visit this cemetery once again, then my personal circle to this topic would perhaps close...


Hans1906