Artillery in the colonies 1914

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danebrog
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

#91

Post by danebrog » 05 Apr 2021, 01:10

Tanzania wrote:
04 Apr 2021, 15:43
Any indication for your feeling?
Well, let's have a look::
same area (Lukigura), same period (24th June 1916), British armoured car (Leyland) shot up, German gun (3.7-cm) captured......

http://www.kaiserscross.com/188001/442901.html
The fight at the Lukigura River, 24th June 1916
Meanwhile at 0700 hours on 24th June Sheppard’s armoured cars [of No 1 Light Battery] came into contact with a German outpost. The cars pushed forward towards the bridge over the river but attracted heavy rifle, machine gun and pom-pom fire; one car was disabled but the crew gallantly recovered it to a safe position.
(...)
Hoskins’ column captured 14 Germans, 20 Askari and the enemy machine guns plus a field gun.
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=107333&start=45#p2184991
24.Juni - 3,7-cm SK -- Lukigura
You will remember - the list dates back to the Panzer-Archiv days.

and finally:
01_Captured German pom-pom.png
01_Captured German pom-pom.png (545.02 KiB) Viewed 3453 times

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Tanzania
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

#92

Post by Tanzania » 06 Apr 2021, 13:21

The loss of the 3,7-cm RK was clear mentioned by Ludwig Boell at 01:30 pm. on 24. June 1916
by Negero-chini at the Lukigura-position northern the Kanga-ridge.

Here an own photo in June 2017 with view at Negero-chini back on the Kanga-ridge.

View at Negero-chini back on the Kanga-ridge, June 2017.JPG

I questioned only the Leyland Armoured Cars.
Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984


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Tanzania
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

#93

Post by Tanzania » 06 Apr 2021, 14:07

The Lukigura-River

The Lukigura-River.JPG

And the Bridge (. . . where the 3,7-cm RK were lost.)

Bridge over the Lukigura River.JPG

Here the Google Position from the Lukigura River:
https://www.google.de/maps/place/Lukigu ... d37.898718

Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

#94

Post by Chris Dale » 06 Apr 2021, 17:01

It's great to see modern photos of the battlefields. Thanks Holger...

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danebrog
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

#95

Post by danebrog » 06 Apr 2021, 17:46

Tanzania wrote:
06 Apr 2021, 13:21
I questioned only the Leyland Armoured Cars.
Holger, it's still a habit from our old research days to answer your questions as accurately as possible - as it's always worked well so far. :wink:
(And it was precisely with the armoured cars that I once occupied myself quite intensively for a while.)
Gruß
Olli

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

#96

Post by Tanzania » 06 Apr 2021, 20:00

Hi Chris,
It´s my pleasure. I would post more photos, but maybe my Laptop has a new Corona-Variant (?),
or the AHF Server is limited. Currently I am only be able to attach one bigger (1500 pixel),
or four smaller pictures (800 pixel) :roll:


Hi Oliver,
Thank you very much for your efforts.
When I found the source for the Leyland Armoured Car which was hit on 24th June, I will post it here later.

Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

#97

Post by danebrog » 06 Apr 2021, 20:45

Willoughby's No 1 Armoured Car Battery was part of the Divisional Troops of the 1st East African Division (Hoskins).
The division consisted of Hannyngton's Brigade and the 2nd East African Infantry Brigade.
Willoughby's wild bunch was the only armoured car unit in the division and was subordinate to Hannyngton at Lukigura.

Harry Fecitt and Edward Paice say the same about this, and I trust them as a "secondary source" as well

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Tanzania
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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

#98

Post by Tanzania » 08 Apr 2021, 16:48

Thanks for your explanations.

My Tip & Run / Edward Paice don´t mention any Leyland Armoured Cars at Lukigura (only p. 207)

Also not by Military operations in East Africa / compiled by Charles Hordern:
Action of the Lukigura, 24th June 1916. (p. 303 – 305)
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... up&seq=347


You have to take some time with the map . . . but however, currently I can´t find any coverage with Google maps.
Action of the Lukigura, 24th June 1916.png
Original Source: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... up&seq=684

Because of the cooperation with Ludwig Boell, we can classify Charles Horden also as a trustful Primary source. (- Image -)

Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

#99

Post by Tanzania » 09 Apr 2021, 09:01

Here an update about the detail position of the 3,7-cm FK and MG´s, west of the Lukigura River (Not North, north-east)

Position of 3,7-cm & MGs at Lukigura.png
Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

#100

Post by Tanzania » 22 Apr 2021, 15:11

Different Version of the 3,7-cm Quick-loading-gun / Krupp-Gruson ?

Here we continue with an artillery-technical detail of the Schutztruppe in GEA. The
basis is a reply-letter from Ludwig Boell to Friedrich Sabath about the artillery equipment.

In the lower section of the letter, mentioned four different versions of the 3.7 cm S.K. on.
The Schutztruppe in GEA owned 11 of these. Does anyone know more details about these different versions?

3,7-cm Quick-loading gun L/21
3,7-cm Quick-loading gun L/23
3,7-cm Quick-loading gun L/30
3,7-cm Gruson quick-loading gun

Letter from Boell to Sabath_4.2.1953.JPG
Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

#101

Post by danebrog » 23 Apr 2021, 01:01

3,7cm Grusonschnellladekanone
Gruson 2.jpg
Gruson 02.jpg
more later, I'm too tired now....
Last edited by danebrog on 23 Apr 2021, 10:33, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

#102

Post by danebrog » 23 Apr 2021, 07:48

6cm Kolonial Kanone:

Krupp had published a small catalogue on the occasion of the "Düsseldorfer Gewerbe- und Industrieausstellung 1902", where the gun is described as „6cm Gebirgskanone L/15 in Kolonial-Lafette“
http://www.fortress-books.com/en/catalo ... ldorf-1902

„Stahl & Eisen, Zeitschrift f. d. dt. Eisenhüttenwesen", Ausgabe Nr. 17, Sept.1905 edition, writes about the special characteristics of this gun:
SuE.jpg
http://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/13212/no17.pdf

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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

#103

Post by danebrog » 23 Apr 2021, 09:26

The 50mm M1903 mountain gun described in the video is likely to be quite similar in many respects to the 60mm M1902 colonial gun.
In any case very illustrative
I suspect that the main difference between the "colonial gun carriage" and the commercial mountain gun is that the payloads are no longer lashed to mules, but can be transported with carrying rods.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0etdjCxR9PE


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Re: Artillery in the colonies 1914

#105

Post by Tanzania » 24 Apr 2021, 12:03

Hi Oliver,
many thanks for all the interesting information.

I love these old, still manual ink construction-drawings, with the
three-dimensional looking deep shades. Every line still had a meaning.

Regarding your post: viewtopic.php?p=2339133#p2339133
The two drawings of the 3,7-cm L/30 rapid fire cannon with the longest barrel version, correspond to
the photo below that were used for the Schutztruppe, even if the model name M 1893 (?) isn´t listed.

01_3,7-cm Drawing.jpg

02_3,7-cm Picture.jpg
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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