Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

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Takao
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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by Takao » 20 Apr 2021 19:21

While, the Germans are still busy digging their Chunnel, the Allies land on D-Day, June 6, 1944, and within weeks have captured the Chunnel entrance.

The Chunnel is half to three quarters complete...Could the Allies finish the Chunnel, by working now from both ends to provide a meaningful logistical contribution to the Allied effort?

The world wonders...

Richard Anderson
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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by Richard Anderson » 20 Apr 2021 22:21

Reading this thread is like being stuck in front of a TV endlessly repeating the Saturday Night Live, "What if Napoleon had a B-52 at Waterloo?" skit.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

OldBill
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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by OldBill » 20 Apr 2021 22:54

What I want to know is, how will they get the Balrog into British battledress? Or is he going to wear something more ancient, perhaps Pictish?

maltesefalcon
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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by maltesefalcon » 20 Apr 2021 23:57

I'm assuming based on the comments above that the lockdown sequence will commence soon.

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Sheldrake
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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by Sheldrake » 21 Apr 2021 00:05

OldBill wrote:
20 Apr 2021 22:54
What I want to know is, how will they get the Balrog into British battledress? Or is he going to wear something more ancient, perhaps Pictish?
Easy. Big wooden horse. Already referenced in post #18

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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 21 Apr 2021 03:51

Carl Schwamberger wrote:
20 Apr 2021 05:21
Im imagining the entries in Brookes diary concerning the Balrog taking charge of Calais.
Brooksie would sniff about the Balrog not being up to par with the Guards, probably. "The Rohirrim are our Southrons," or something similar...

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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 21 Apr 2021 03:59

Takao wrote:
20 Apr 2021 19:21
While, the Germans are still busy digging their Chunnel, the Allies land on D-Day, June 6, 1944, and within weeks have captured the Chunnel entrance.

The Chunnel is half to three quarters complete...Could the Allies finish the Chunnel, by working now from both ends to provide a meaningful logistical contribution to the Allied effort?

The world wonders...
It took four years to build the Holland tunnel in the 1920s, digging from each end. Granted, that was two tunnels, so from one side, it's probably still four years. Now, the Holland is roughly 2 km long; the Chunnel is roughly 50 km. Very roughly (even setting aside the rather questionable surface road and rail net of northwest France in 1940 in comparison with Manhattan) that means that at the same pace (.5 km per year), the Germans will break through in England in roughly 100 years; so, maybe 2041?

Do we really need to wonder?

Orwell1984
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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by Orwell1984 » 21 Apr 2021 11:11

Image

For those that can't get enough.....due May 2021

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T. A. Gardner
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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by T. A. Gardner » 22 Apr 2021 01:55

To the original question here, put in simpler terms...

Because the Germans couldn't even build a paved all-weather highway from Berlin to Moscow...

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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 22 Apr 2021 04:32

T. A. Gardner wrote:
22 Apr 2021 01:55
To the original question here, put in simpler terms...

Because the Germans couldn't even build a paved all-weather highway from Berlin to Moscow...
Good point.

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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by maltesefalcon » 22 Apr 2021 19:38

T. A. Gardner wrote:
22 Apr 2021 01:55
To the original question here, put in simpler terms...

Because the Germans couldn't even build a paved all-weather highway from Berlin to Moscow...
There were lots of things the Reich didn't do. Like putting a man on the moon or perfecting a working nuclear weapon. And they failed to complete (at least) the Russian section of an 1800 km highway, which is not a trivial project, even in peacetime

I would ask the following questions.

How much time is allowed for such an undertaking? Bear in mind they obviously could not start the construction of the Russian portion until June 22/41. Bear in mind it took Germany 8 years to complete 3800 km of Autobahn by 1941.

Could anyone do it in the time frame where it would make a difference in the war's outcome? Bear in mind the road would be threatened by bombing and military counterattack.

Would the road stand up to everyday traffic?

Why not just improve the rail network and local roads to extend North/South along the front as the war progressed? One needs good roads to distribute goods the last few miles along the front, not just eastward.
Last edited by maltesefalcon on 22 Apr 2021 20:13, edited 3 times in total.

john2
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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by john2 » 22 Apr 2021 19:58

Reading this thread is like being stuck in front of a TV endlessly repeating the Saturday Night Live, "What if Napoleon had a B-52 at Waterloo?" skit.
Why bother with a tunnel? They can just swim across. They are the "superior" race after all.

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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by rcocean » 22 Apr 2021 20:01

Yes, I can see why building an underwater tunnel would be an acceptable "what if" unlike Turkey joining the Axis. One is likely, the other impossible.

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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by ManfredV » 22 Apr 2021 20:53

What a brilliant plan. Building a tunnel. No one in Britain noticed it. Finally they ended in Buckingham Palace Garden. "Sorry, is this England?"
Ridiculous.

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T. A. Gardner
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Re: Why couldn't the Germans build an underwater tunnel to Britain?

Post by T. A. Gardner » 22 Apr 2021 23:03

maltesefalcon wrote:
22 Apr 2021 19:38
There were lots of things the Reich didn't do. Like putting a man on the moon or perfecting a working nuclear weapon. And they failed to complete (at least) the Russian section of an 1800 km highway, which is not a trivial project, even in peacetime
By comparison the US built the ALCAN highway in a matter of about 8 months stretching almost 3000 km. While that was the initial unpaved version, it ran almost entirely through wilderness, aboral forests, over mountain ranges, and arctic terrain. There were about 8,000 US engineering troops used to build it.
The the US built the Burma road...

The reason the Germans couldn't do such projects quickly was their civil engineering techniques were unmechanized for the most part.
I would ask the following questions.

How much time is allowed for such an undertaking? Bear in mind they obviously could not start the construction of the Russian portion until June 22/41. Bear in mind it took Germany 8 years to complete 3800 km of Autobahn by 1941.
Using mostly manpower with little mechanization, it could take the Germans years to build such a road. It's pretty clear that with proper mechanization it could be done in a matter of months.
Could anyone do it in the time frame where it would make a difference in the war's outcome? Bear in mind the road would be threatened by bombing and military counterattack.
The could have, and such roads would make a difference.
Would the road stand up to everyday traffic?
Yes, if properly engineered and constructed.
Why not just improve the rail network and local roads to extend North/South along the front as the war progressed? One needs good roads to distribute goods the last few miles along the front, not just eastward.
The Germans should have done more of that. They could also have laid pipelines to move things like POL instead of by rail. Far more efficient and far less prone to things like sabotage by partisans.

Of course, my original comment was meant to show how impractical it would be for the Germans to build a Channel tunnel.

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