Reach of NGFS Normandy

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Kingfish
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Reach of NGFS Normandy

#1

Post by Kingfish » 28 May 2021, 00:52

Is Op Windsor the furthest inland that NGFS was able to reach in Normandy?
The gods do not deduct from a man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

#2

Post by Sheldrake » 28 May 2021, 09:52

NGS played a significant part in the battle for Tilly sur Seulles
The fireplan for Op Jupiter (10 July 1944) included HMS Rodney with 9 x 16-inch, Roberts with 2 x 15-inch and Belfast with 12 x 6-inch guns

During Op Goodwood (18 July 1944) HMS Roberts, Enterprise and Mauritius carried out a counter-battery programme controlled by HQ 4th AGRA.

There is no mention of warships in the fireplans for Op Spring or Pomegranate. So by this time the front line must have been beyond the range of NGS.


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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

#3

Post by OpanaPointer » 28 May 2021, 12:22

Barefoot post:

The absolute max range would be that of the battleships. You then deduct the distance from the beach to the fathomline the BBs operated on.

Some references:

https://worldwar2navies.wordpress.com/2 ... -day-1944/

https://www.historyonthenet.com/naval-artillery

And best for last: https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/re ... _Guns.html
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

#4

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 28 May 2021, 16:45

I don't have information on the quantities of ammunition fired. My view has been the cruiser guns would be the common limit of the NGFS with the BB fires a low occurrence exception.

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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

#5

Post by OpanaPointer » 28 May 2021, 20:25

Carl Schwamberger wrote:
28 May 2021, 16:45
I don't have information on the quantities of ammunition fired. My view has been the cruiser guns would be the common limit of the NGFS with the BB fires a low occurrence exception.
von Rundstedt and Rommel both made entries in the KTBs about the difficulty of moving troops under battleship gunfire.
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

#6

Post by OpanaPointer » 28 May 2021, 20:27

On the other foot a DD was requested to take out a church steeple that was suspected of being a FAO post. The legend says one shot, the record says seven, either is darn good shootin', partner.
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

#7

Post by Sheldrake » 29 May 2021, 01:26

Carl Schwamberger wrote:
28 May 2021, 16:45
I don't have information on the quantities of ammunition fired. My view has been the cruiser guns would be the common limit of the NGFS with the BB fires a low occurrence exception.
Here are the details of the NGS fire for Op Charnwood

The warships were to fire from Jul 7 onwards as follows:
HMS Rodney (100 rds) Pt 64 pm 7 Jul and at H-4 for 40 mins each
HMS Roberts (100 rds) Buron pm 7 Jul and at H-2 for 40 mins each
La Folie from H-2 to H+2½
HMS Emerald CB east of R Orne under command 51 Div
HMS Belfast CB west of R Orne under command Comd 4 AGRA

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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

#8

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 29 May 2021, 01:54

OpanaPointer wrote:
28 May 2021, 20:25
...
von Rundstedt and Rommel both made entries in the KTBs about the difficulty of moving troops under battleship gunfire.
Sort of like every German tank was a Tiger to the Yank. The declining number of staff officer writing those reports Rommel & Rundsteadt read were not wasting a lot of time determining the exact caliber of rounds that just drove a grenadier company to ground and flipped their AT gun over.

Reaching back to my fire planning training, for most applications I prefer a cruiser capable of rapid fire with 6" cannon. There are moments a 14" or 15" projective is best, but generally a cruisers 6" guns give you a high volume & better effect on target in that first critical 30 seconds of rounds on target.
OpanaPointer wrote:
28 May 2021, 20:27
On the other foot a DD was requested to take out a church steeple that was suspected of being a FAO post. The legend says one shot, the record says seven, either is darn good shootin', partner.
Seven rounds were fired, one hit the building. The back story is the fire mission was initiated at a senior HQ, either the 2d ID or one of the infantry regiments. The NGF observer spotting the mission was to distant to see that one of the rifle companies had already evicted the enemy from the ground around the church, & the HQ was not up to date on events of the last 20 minutes.

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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

#9

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 29 May 2021, 01:58

Sheldrake wrote:
29 May 2021, 01:26
Carl Schwamberger wrote:
28 May 2021, 16:45
I don't have information on the quantities of ammunition fired. My view has been the cruiser guns would be the common limit of the NGFS with the BB fires a low occurrence exception.
Here are the details of the NGS fire for Op Charnwood

The warships were to fire from Jul 7 onwards as follows:
HMS Rodney (100 rds) Pt 64 pm 7 Jul and at H-4 for 40 mins each
HMS Roberts (100 rds) Buron pm 7 Jul and at H-2 for 40 mins each
La Folie from H-2 to H+2½
HMS Emerald CB east of R Orne under command 51 Div
HMS Belfast CB west of R Orne under command Comd 4 AGRA
Thanks. Thats a good start. I'll have to search out the number of rounds each ship carried. There is also the question of how the secondary batteries of the Rodney were used.

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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

#10

Post by EwenS » 29 May 2021, 13:59

You will find some information, some of it more detailed than in other cases, in the ship histories here.
http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-aContents.htm

Some range information on the various naval guns available here.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/index_weapons.php

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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

#11

Post by OpanaPointer » 29 May 2021, 13:59

Carl, I suspect both officers could tell the difference between a 5" round and a 14" round. I know a 16" was more ... impactful ... when they detonated back in the day.
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

#12

Post by OpanaPointer » 29 May 2021, 14:00

Carl Schwamberger wrote:
28 May 2021, 16:45
I don't have information on the quantities of ammunition fired. My view has been the cruiser guns would be the common limit of the NGFS with the BB fires a low occurrence exception.
The BBs dueled with shore batteries south of the landing zone a bit later on.
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

#13

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 29 May 2021, 22:06

OpanaPointer wrote:
29 May 2021, 13:59
Carl, I suspect both officers could tell the difference between a 5" round and a 14" round. I know a 16" was more ... impactful ... when they detonated back in the day.
Possibly, but I don’t suppose either were too close when those rounds landed.

Regards

Tom

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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

#14

Post by OpanaPointer » 29 May 2021, 23:35

One blew my hat off. Another blew me into the hospital. Close enough.
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Re: Reach of NGFS Normandy

#15

Post by Delta Tank » 30 May 2021, 02:31

OpanaPointer wrote:
28 May 2021, 20:27
On the other foot a DD was requested to take out a church steeple that was suspected of being a FAO post. The legend says one shot, the record says seven, either is darn good shootin', partner.
Where was this Church steeple?

Mike

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