Help with a familiar picture sought

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
palaisfan
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Re: Help with a familiar picture sought

Post by palaisfan » 30 May 2021 22:31

Well this is interesting. It seems the brochure may or may not be the July 1937 one, but the caption in the original first post with the preview pic from Bayerische Staatsbibliothek gives the date of August 1937. But if they were basing it on the brochure, then it is circular reasoning. Hmm. The other thing is whether that is a picture of Gretl Braun or just somewhat looks like one. If it is, it offers a tantalizing new possibility.

The attached picture shows the images side by side confirming the same room. Whatever else, this two window room is not at Hitler's floor at Prinzregentenplatz. Associating it with Hitler's apartment flat as occasionally done can be ruled out. Those windows with the cross-like look also do not fit the Fuhrerbau or given the date, the Haus of German Art which might have otherwise made sense. However, the very real possibility that this is either a sitting room in the Braunes Haus next to Hitler's office on the First Floor, or most surprising of all, a photo of Eva's guestroom at the Old Reich Chancellery Palace [Reichskanzlerpalais], should be considered. This is because either one would fit the paired windows with those kind of frames and that close together. Its not a full solution, but it is important progress. Any thoughts which more likely is welcome.

- palaisfan

Hitler-Office-pic-Is-Not-at-PrinzRegentplatz.jpg
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Helly Angel
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Re: Help with a familiar picture sought

Post by Helly Angel » 31 May 2021 23:21

Wessel wrote:
27 May 2021 13:49
...or it could just be any copy of the German Art Magazine.
Could be... right.

palaisfan
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Re: Help with a familiar picture sought

Post by palaisfan » 31 May 2021 23:38

Helly Angel wrote:
31 May 2021 23:21
Wessel wrote:
27 May 2021 13:49
...or it could just be any copy of the German Art Magazine.
Could be... right.
But the earliest with that design was still 1937, wasn't it? So that still is important limit. In any case, it definitely is not the Hitler apartment but am ever more persuaded just may be a Sitting Room next to his office in the Brown House.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Help with a familiar picture sought

Post by Sid Guttridge » 01 Jun 2021 06:28

Hi Biber,

I am not sure that a man for whom every town in Germany renamed a main street, or square, or bridge can be accused of suffering from a deficit of vanity. The national youth movement, a panzer division and a mountain also bore his name. Modesty is not an obvious theme!

Cheers,

Sid.

Biber
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Re: Help with a familiar picture sought

Post by Biber » 01 Jun 2021 11:34

Sid Guttridge wrote:
01 Jun 2021 06:28
Hi Biber,

I am not sure that a man for whom every town in Germany renamed a main street, or square, or bridge can be accused of suffering from a deficit of vanity. The national youth movement, a panzer division and a mountain also bore his name. Modesty is not an obvious theme!

Cheers,

Sid.
They are not the same thing. Having things and places named for/after you is a far cry from having a picture of yourself in your office. AH had many offices. Are any of them documented to have had similar such pictures hanging in them? I'd be glad to be wrong about this.

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Helly Angel
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Re: Help with a familiar picture sought

Post by Helly Angel » 01 Jun 2021 16:25

Remember that AH used to hang pictures of Fedrerick The great in their offices

palaisfan
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Re: Help with a familiar picture sought

Post by palaisfan » 01 Jun 2021 22:36

Biber wrote:
01 Jun 2021 11:34
Sid Guttridge wrote:
01 Jun 2021 06:28
Hi Biber,

I am not sure that a man for whom every town in Germany renamed a main street, or square, or bridge can be accused of suffering from a deficit of vanity. The national youth movement, a panzer division and a mountain also bore his name. Modesty is not an obvious theme!

Cheers,

Sid.
They are not the same thing. Having things and places named for/after you is a far cry from having a picture of yourself in your office. AH had many offices. Are any of them documented to have had similar such pictures hanging in them? I'd be glad to be wrong about this.
Biber,

Your point may likely hold. When thinking of his office in the Chancellery---any of the three in fact in that complex, and the one at the Berghof, and the one in the bay window of his apartment ----- None have a picture of himself.

Helly Angel is also right that there is not in his Braunes Haus office either--its a portrait of Frederick the Great and a bust of Mussolini.

It is now clear this two-window room was not an office at Prinzregetenplatz, and we know what the one at the Braunes Haus looked like. Since the windows maybe match that design as that thread will get into, a reasonable idea is that it is instead either Hess', Goebbel's or Goering's office in the Brown House. (Despite page one it is far from definite that is Gretl Braun on the desk. On that depends the idea it could be Eva's room.)

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Help with a familiar picture sought

Post by Sid Guttridge » 03 Jun 2021 09:28

Hi Biber,

I am agnostic on the picture issue but not on your character analysis of Hitler.

My point was that if Hitler didn't have photographs of himself in his office, lack of vanity does not seem a very likely motivator, given that he allowed every town in Germany to rename a main street, or square, or bridge after him.

Cheers,

Sid.

Biber
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Re: Help with a familiar picture sought

Post by Biber » 03 Jun 2021 13:39

Yes, of course. How silly of me. (I actually had to go back to my original comment to see just how egregious it was.)

Facetiousness aside, your argument re roads/bridges etc named for AH is like saying that the Queen similarly "allows" her image on just about every coin, bill and stamp in the realm. I wonder if she keeps pictures of herself in her offices?

Actually I do indeed think AH was a very vain person. I'm certain he was quite pleased to have his name plastered on everything that did and didn't move. It was all about him and his self-perceived divinity, in everything that he was and did. First person singular, plain and simple. But, I also think that he was very keen that such honorifics did not originate with him and to preserve the image of deprecation, selflessness, sacrifice, and modesty. Would he have hung a photo of himself in his office? Surely not beyond such a thing more broadly commemorating an important or otherwise momentous event. (Even then I have reservations) I just don't see it. As always, I'd be glad to be wrong on this.

By the way, have you read the US Govt psychological profile on AH? Interesting reading. It has been a while for me, so I might just revisit again in light of this discussion.

palaisfan
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Re: Help with a familiar picture sought

Post by palaisfan » 03 Jun 2021 19:49

Supporting Biber's take it needs to be realized that there is no definite evidence of Hitler hanging a photo of himself in his office now. This common candidate picture is clearly demonstrated as being in an unknown location now. It might not even be Hitler's, but someone like Hess's next door. Or a waiting room of some kind.

Biber
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Re: Help with a familiar picture sought

Post by Biber » 04 Jun 2021 14:25

Might the picture to the left (Closer to the window) of the AH portrait have some meaning or relevance to whose office it may have been? It seems to be an image of a wheat field?

And the Elk figurine on the desk. Might Goering figure into the possibilities? (Though I would think the space not ostentatious enough to be his.)

palaisfan
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Re: Help with a familiar picture sought

Post by palaisfan » 04 Jun 2021 23:36

Biber wrote:
04 Jun 2021 14:25
Might the picture to the left (Closer to the window) of the AH portrait have some meaning or relevance to whose office it may have been? It seems to be an image of a wheat field?

And the Elk figurine on the desk. Might Goering figure into the possibilities? (Though I would think the space not ostentatious enough to be his.)
Maybe not as much as he would like, but if that is in the Brown House you didn't have a lot of space to work with. Actually the suggestion it could be Goering's seems pretty good now that you mention the elk sculpture. We know that each of the palladins had an office in the Brown House. The paired windows could fit.

It might be possible to determine by some elimination. Is this by any chance Rudolf Hess? It looks little like him. Its an office in the Brown House.

IsThisRudolfHess45.jpeg
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