The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Discussions on the propaganda, architecture and culture in the Third Reich.
palaisfan
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Re: color

Post by palaisfan » 30 May 2021 21:35

Helly Angel wrote:
16 Jul 2004 06:03
Flag Hall in color!!
Hello Helly Angel,

Hope you don't mind my re-activating your old thread but its the only dedicated one to the Braunes Haus found readily when did a search. You might especially find interesting what wanted to add here. I was going through old photocopy boxes and thought the board might like to read the Adolf Dresler description of the Brown House. His 1939 book "Braunes Haus" was captured and put in the Library of Congress. Back in the 90's made photocopies. The book actually deals also with other buildings like the Fuhrerbau and incidentally mentions by that time which functions had moved out of the Brown House. But the 10 pages relevant made into a pdf for all. If any want to post the individual pages let me know.

A.Dresler1939-BraunesHaus-BHchapter.pdf
The National Archives also has a large photo collection series. Using some of the descriptions in the book and sources, have puzzled out some of the arrangements. Not to Reichskanzlei or Berghof clarity, but enough many may find it interesting. Turns out the pictures appear to have been taken in December 1931, and early 1932. The clue is the wing office building behind the Brown House is in them and that was newly finished only after end of 1931.

https://catalog.archives.gov/


Have fashioned some montages to make clear where each room was as discovered so far. Will spread over a few posts. The first set here are as we come to the entrance under the balcony, walk through (look back behind at reverse side of door), and then enter the lobby "Fahnenhalle" where the porter's desk is, the bust of Bismarck on a pedestal on Helly Angel's color picture above, the `Bludfahne' (Blood flag that gives its name to the hall) and the staircase on the right east side leading up to the First Floor.

Enjoy,

- palaisfan
BraunesHaus-Entrance-thenReverseside.jpg
Lobby-porters-desk.jpg
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palaisfan
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Re: The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Post by palaisfan » 30 May 2021 21:43

On the Main Floor, Erdgeschosses level, was the NSDAP court (top picture), and the Treasurer's Franz Schwarz's office (bottom picture). Both facing Briennerstrasse. Both officers are behind round top windows. From this it appears the first one is in the southeast corner just looking at the windows and corner.
MainFloor-Court-and-Treasurer.jpg

The only other room known on the Main Floor so far is the so-called Registration or Card Catalog, which was a whole wing fastened to the north side about one storey high. Its behind the skylights you see in the lobby. In the first top picture, I believe those large indentations just visible on the left are the reverse side of the skylights. This is just a guess however.

BrownHouse-catalog.jpg
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palaisfan
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Re: The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Post by palaisfan » 30 May 2021 21:52

Quick question for any of you. Do any of you have a picture - -even medium range ground or air from the side -- of either the Barlow Palais before conversion or after becomes the Brown House from the north or garden side? Any era would do, as it is the number of windows would like to know as it seems different from the ruins at the end of the war.

- palaisfan

palaisfan
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Re: The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Post by palaisfan » 31 May 2021 23:11

Continuing the tour. Imagine you ascend the main staircase to the First Floor. You arrive at a landing that is actually also forecourt to the Senate Hall, and serves as the Hall of Honor with the two plaques for the fallen of the putsch Nov 9, 1923.

Top. Staircase from Main Floor to First Floor (and continues to the Second Floor), Middle, looking back down half-way up into the Flag Hall lobby; bottom, arrived at top of stairs. Senate entrance is directly across from you, flanked by the plaques.

Staircase-to-1stfloor-1stFloorvestibule.jpg
Top. Looking directly at Senate (to west) from staircase direction; second and third pictures show you the bust of Dietrich Eckart. This was placed on a pedestal on the window (north side) wall. (Some accounts imply inside Hitler's office, but this is incorrect.) Off frame to right the staircase winds on up to the Second Floor. In the bottom picture you see the Staircase going on up as seen from the portal doors of the Senate Chamber.

Standards-Hall-ofHonor-plaques.jpg
Will continue with Senate Hall and Hitler's Office next, then move "upstairs" to Second Floor in next installment.
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Helly Angel
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Re: The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Post by Helly Angel » 31 May 2021 23:20

Thank you for came back this interesting thread. I have today a little more knowledge about this. I have several postcard and material about this, even I saw in last days another thread that you posted with pictures of the ruins of the Braunes Haus. I´m going work in this because is worth to explain. Give me some days.

palaisfan
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Re: The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Post by palaisfan » 31 May 2021 23:28

Helly Angel wrote:
31 May 2021 23:20
Thank you for came back this interesting thread. I have today a little more knowledge about this. I have several postcard and material about this, even I saw in last days another thread that you posted with pictures of the ruins of the Braunes Haus. I´m going work in this because is worth to explain. Give me some days.
Hello, Helly Angel,

Glad it was good to re-open. What you have to add and have found sounds very interesting. Will be looking forward to it. There is no rush. I just add parts as I can, and this is a good point to pause and wait. I spent a great deal of time sorting the pictures at the Archives and wanted to share. You see, online sites say there apparently is no surviving plans. So anything has to be figured out by text and photos. This actually just makes the challenge more interesting, as handle may suggest, ha. This is especially because the National Archives has a vast number of images of it-- but very few have captions, but by looking out the windows at other buildings and type of window frames you can figure out many things. It became somewhat of a fun knot or rubric's cube to work with.

(That other thread was the Fall of Munich -- was posting Lee Miller descriptions matched to ruins. I may put those pictures here)

- palaisfan.

palaisfan
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Re: The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Post by palaisfan » 06 Jun 2021 18:53

While waiting to resume, one room of interest is this one whose view outside the window tends to match the next to last westmost (leftmost looking at the street facade) window on the First Floor. Next to what is probably Hitler's corner office.

This desk is very different from the others. Is that Rudolf Hess at that desk? Looks somewhat like him. Any clues from the uniform perhaps. And a writing of his mentions having his secretaries directly adjacent. The National Archives caption is unhelpful -- even the original simply says "Buro" in the Braunes Haus on the back. So it is not out of the question simply unnoticed.

- palaisfan

NA-Is-that-Hess-office.jpg
(National Archives)
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Br. James
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Re: The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Post by Br. James » 06 Jun 2021 21:48

"Next to what is probably Hitler's corner office."

Certainly a great and historic photo, palaisfan, and it does look like Rudolf Hess at that desk. Are you saying that the room just behind Hess' back, visible through that open doorway to his right, "is probably Hitler's corner office?" When comparing the photo of Hitler's office in note #21 above, the wall color appears to be quite different than what that room provides in note #37...

Br. James

palaisfan
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Re: The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Post by palaisfan » 07 Jun 2021 19:21

Br. James wrote:
06 Jun 2021 21:48
"Next to what is probably Hitler's corner office."

Certainly a great and historic photo, palaisfan, and it does look like Rudolf Hess at that desk. Are you saying that the room just behind Hess' back, visible through that open doorway to his right, "is probably Hitler's corner office?" When comparing the photo of Hitler's office in note #21 above, the wall color appears to be quite different than what that room provides in note #37...

Br. James
Hello Br.James,

Okay, if you think it looks like Hess too, it shows I wasn't imagining the resemblance. This gets potentially important indeed in a few ways. On your question, actually I meant I place Hitler's office through that two-panel tall door to the right of the window, in the extreme right corner. The one basically opposite the man we think is Hess. So you are not seeing inside Hitler's office. The office seen through the open door on left would in fact be the secretary office associated.

If I am not mistaken, in fact, the color photo on note # 21 you mention may be a picture practically taken standing in that same doorway looking into Hitler's office (which would make those windows in the color picture the west side.) It is in the right angle. It is known that Hitler's office faced Königsplatz, but it is not definite if it was the southwest corner or northwest corner. So some uncertainty remains here.

There is a larger picture of the suspected Hess posted on this thread btw:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=256566&start=15

- palaisfan

Br. James
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Re: The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Post by Br. James » 07 Jun 2021 20:41

Thanks, palaisfan, for providing the enlargement of that photo, and indeed it IS Rudolf Hess sitting there. But that said, it must have been a sudden need to sit there for Hess, as I would assume that the Secretary and Deputy Führer of the NSDAP would have had a finely fitted office himself, with another office for HIS deputy at that time, Martin Bormann, to have his own office, with secretarial desks for everyone. So someone must have had a camera available to record the moment when Hess sat there, briefly.

It would seem appropriate that Hitler's office in the Braunnes Haus would have faced the Königsplatz -- just as his office in the Führerbau was located on the northwest corner of that building, also looking out onto both the Königsplatz and the Temples of Honor. But at the Braunnes Haus, I would assume that Hitler's office would have had windows which actually looked toward the Königsplatz, and that would have required that office to be located on the north side of the building. An office on the south or southwest corner of the building would not have had any exterior windows which faced the Königsplatz...as I understand the geography!

Br. James

palaisfan
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Re: The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Post by palaisfan » 10 Jun 2021 20:28

Br. James wrote:
07 Jun 2021 20:41
Thanks, palaisfan, for providing the enlargement of that photo, and indeed it IS Rudolf Hess sitting there. But that said, it must have been a sudden need to sit there for Hess, as I would assume that the Secretary and Deputy Führer of the NSDAP would have had a finely fitted office himself, with another office for HIS deputy at that time, Martin Bormann, to have his own office, with secretarial desks for everyone. So someone must have had a camera available to record the moment when Hess sat there, briefly.

It would seem appropriate that Hitler's office in the Braunnes Haus would have faced the Königsplatz -- just as his office in the Führerbau was located on the northwest corner of that building, also looking out onto both the Königsplatz and the Temples of Honor. But at the Braunnes Haus, I would assume that Hitler's office would have had windows which actually looked toward the Königsplatz, and that would have required that office to be located on the north side of the building. An office on the south or southwest corner of the building would not have had any exterior windows which faced the Königsplatz...as I understand the geography!

Br. James
Hello Br.James,

Hmm. It seems I may have misunderstood the geography. I had the impression the street facade of the Brown House ran generally west to east (NW-SE), and so Königsplatz would be to the west beyond some buildings at first, and then beyond the Troost Fuhrerbau pairs at the same spot later. So all Hitler's office could do was face in the general direction. Perhaps I have misunderstood what was visible before the Fuhrerbau and twin with the honor temples went up. (The office was built before they knew it might have a obscured view later). Put another way -- if the Brown House is a short rectangle, a bit longer than wide- -- believe the long side faces street running northwest-southeast? That still doesn't affirm where the office is. But it has two windows the same size on one side which is a clue.

Meanwhile I think you have a point about the decor of the office in this photograph. Maybe it is in fact Bormann's desk (less important at the time) and that might explain Hess temporarily sitting at it for a moment. This could make sense. Helly Angel said he had some more info coming in a few days, maybe it will shed some light.

- palaisfan
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Br. James
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Re: The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Post by Br. James » 10 Jun 2021 21:37

Palaisfan, I think you are correct with the geography. I have just refreshed my (fading) memory and the Braunnes Haus -- Briennerstrasse 45 -- did run NW-SE along the north side of Briennerstr. The Führerbau was located at Arcisstrasse 12 and the Party Administration Building was at Meiserstrasse 10, now known as Katharina-von-Bora-Strasse. The two buildings were separated by the Temples of Honor. While the Brown House faced SW, the Führerbau and the Administration Building both faced toward the Königsplatz on the NW.

Br. James

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Helly Angel
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Re: The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Post by Helly Angel » 21 Jun 2021 22:14

A postcard I bought today... Picture from the catalog. The casino in the Braunes Haus. I can´t imagine someone drinking a beer there.
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Max
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Re: The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Post by Max » 22 Jun 2021 07:18

More Braune Haus postcards here
https://pantorijn.blogspot.com/2016/12/ ... karte.html
https://pantorijn.blogspot.com/search/l ... 20serie%27
Seems to have lots of Hoffman's postcards.
Greetings from the Wide Brown.

palaisfan
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Re: The "Braunes Haus" in Munich

Post by palaisfan » 24 Jun 2021 16:15

Helly Angel wrote:
21 Jun 2021 22:14
A postcard I bought today... Picture from the catalog. The casino in the Braunes Haus. I can´t imagine someone drinking a beer there.
Hello Helly Angel,

That's a good shot of the nature of the `casino' . It seems to be three parallel barrel-vaulted spaces in its main part. It does look kind of close ceilinged and cramped doesn't it, ha? But it turns out they did drink beer there, including Hitler himself.

You can tell this picture is in a side barrel vault more of your post-card.
NatArchiv-BrownHouse-canteen-gather.jpg
(U.S. National Archives)

This is very likely in the same general place. The architecture would match and the caption calls it the "refreshment table."
Toland-BrownHouse-cantina.jpg
(Hitler: Pictorial Documentary of his Life, John Toland)

I seem to remember a thread or website with pictures of the remaining cellar and basement foundation ruins of the Brown House before it was built over again. It might be possible now to line up some of the features. The entrance to the underground `casino' (kantine?) was on the west face of the building with steps leading down somewhat like a subway entrance. The steps leading down and these barrel vaults both might stand out.

- palaisfan
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