Are the Luftwaffe claims credible?

[uhu]

Let's take a look at Allied claims. Let's take a close look at the gun camera films, lots of them are on the web. Look at all the strafing claims allied pilots were credited with. Look close at the films in slow motion and study the kill.....wrecks towed out into the middle of the airfields, and lot of air field dummies to be seen. How many aces were make killing wrecks and wooden dummies:?

[AriX]

How many aces were make killing wrecks and whooden dummies:?

I assume - zero. Only aerial victory claims were counted.

[Linkagain]

In one Example of Overclaiming for one day battle of Britian it was found that BOTH the Luftwaffe and RAF had each overclaimed the Other sides Losses by 50 % {Comapring claims with actual losses} :roll:
(See Wikipedia entry on Overclaiming)

[AriX]

In one Example of Overclaiming for one day battle of Britian it was found that BOTH the Luftwaffe and RAF had each overclaimed the Other sides Losses by 50 %

Soviets had an overclaime in 300%. :roll:

[tramonte]

4. and 5./JG54 had very good reliability with true air victories versus claims in Karelian Istmus during period 17 June - 18 July 1944. As high as 3:4. On the other hand Finnish fighter pilots ( 24 th, 26 th and 34 th fighter squadrons) claimed over 470 while having most likely around 100 real air victories.

For instance in 20 June 1944 FiAF claimed 49, German pilots in Karelian Istmus 9 but only 15 Soviet aircraft were shot down in air combat. Next day German pilots claimed 12 and FiAF pilots 10 but still 15 Soviet aircraft were shot down in air combat. 22 June FiAF claimed 14, Germans none, but not a single Soviet aircraft was shot down. During 1 to 16 June FiAF claimed 74 but likely less than 10 Soviet aircraft was shot down in air combat.

During same summer III./JG5 had record of 1:7 to 1:10 overclaiming in Petsamo/Northern Lappland. Just 10-15% of claims were true air victories. So we can't say that whole Luftwaffe was overclaiming a lot.

[igorr]

Soviets had an overclaime in 300%. :roll:

All the way??
I can say Germans has overclaim 700%. Who give more?

[AriX]

All the way??
I can say Germans has overclaim 700%. Who give more?

LWFs frontverluste in 1941-44 on the East were c. 12.000 + in 1945 they were like 3-4000.
Soviet VVS and PVO had claimed 53.000 shot down german planes during the war.

[igorr]

And what about germans?

[Stiltzkin]

There are examples of stronger deviations, but that was not always the case.
The battle of Kursk is a good candidate, see Lawrence, Kursk: The Battle of Prokhorovka p.839

[igorr]

There was no one rule for overclaim. It was different according to sector of battleline, to time. Overclaim at 1941 in Far North for germans was 1,76, in 1943 - 2,37, but in 1944 much worse, including 7 and more in individual fighting.

[ewest89]

Here is a book that covers top JG 52 aces over Hungary in 1944 and '45 that should be out in a few weeks according to one of the authors.

https://www.helion.co.uk/military-histo ... 7184a43314