stg 44 wrote: ↑
11 Nov 2021 22:45
Because there was limited beach space and not only reinforcements were to be landed, supplies/replacements/equipment had to be moved in and of course wounded evacuated when possible. Assault landing craft were necessary for assault landings, other vessels could be and were used to move in the rest once the beaches were secured. And again there were already schedules set up for the landing of follow on waves of troops, so who are you displacing from the historical landing schedule? I'm willing to accept even with the weather limitations the extra vessels available due to no V corps landing at Omaha would allow faster landing of men and material on the beaches so the historical schedule of landings could be sped up, but it isn't just the beach space it is also places inland to deploy new units. If Omaha isn't taken and that means Sword/Gold/Juno are more hemmed in than they were historically there may not even be the space to deploy V corps units inland for a while.
Damn but you're a hoot. Have you actually read ANY of the primary source documentation on this subject?
There was no "schedule" beyond the timing of the assault on the "first tide". The 2d and 3d tide forces were "scheduled" to land then, at the turn of the tide, on order. Ditto the Follow-On Force B and L. The actual orders were to "land designated Army Troops on Vierville-Colleville (OMAHA) beaches (6491 to 6983} as directed by Commander Assault Force "O" [CG V Corps] and in a accordance with plan of landing developed by the Commanding General concerned. Be prepared to land in. emergency assault on either OMAHA or UTAH beaches." (OPERATION PLAN NO. 2-44 OF THE WESTERN NAVAL TASK FORCE, ALLIED NAVAL EXPEDITIONARY FORCE SHORT TITLE "ON WEST TWO", since we're playing the sources game. I've also used the operations plans of the Eastern Naval Task Force, as well as the plans made by V Corps, First US Army, Forces "U", "G", and "S", as well as the AAR for the same in my analysis.
So provide a better source that shows the schedule of reinforcement landings and clearing of the beaches if you don't like wikipedia. So far I'm the only one who has bothered to source such.
Just gave it to you Jack. Would you like the complete bibliography?
Allied Landing Craft of World War II (originally published in 1944 with a subsequent
supplement as ON1226-Allied Landing Craft and Ships), Annapolis, MD: Naval
Institute Press, reprint 1985.
Army Operational Research Group. Report No. 16, Air and Ground Support in the
Assault of Boulogne.
________. Report No. 261 Casualties and Effects of Fire Support on the British Beaches
at Normandy, 21 April 1945.
________. Report No. 292, Comparison of British and American Areas in Normandy in
terms of Fire Support and its Effects. 14 August 1945.
Canadian Section, General Headquarters, 2nd Echelon. 99/15/STATS/1/A3, Casualties-
Canadian Army Headquarters (AHQ). Report No. 40, The Campaign In North-West
Europe, Information From German Sources. 28 April 1951.
________. Report No. 41, The German Defences in the Courseulles-St. Aubin Area of the
Normandy Coast. 20 July 1951.
________. Report No. 42, The Preliminary Planning For Operation “OVERLORD”:
Some Aspects of the Preparations for an Allied Re-entry to North-West Europe,
1940-1944. 5 March 1952.
________. No. 54, The Assault and Subsequent Operations of 3 Cde Inf Div and 2 Cdn
Armd Bde, 6-30 June. 30 June 1952.
Canadian Military Engineers. Customs and Traditions of the CME. A-JS-007-003/JD-
001, Annex A – Canadian Military Engineer Memorials, n.d.
Canadian Military Headquarters (CMHQ). Report No. 147. The Assault and subsequent
Operations of 3 Cdn Inf Div and 2 Cdn Armd Bde, 6-30 Jun 44. 3 December
Commander U.S. Naval Forces Europe. The Invasion of Normandy, Operation
NEPTUNE, Administrative History, United States Naval Forces in Europe 1940-
1946. Vol. V, London: n.p., n.d.
Commonwealth War Graves Commission, http://www.cwgc.org/
The London Gazette, various.
The National Archives (UK):
ADM 179/458. Western Task Force, 1944 Mar-May.
ADM 179/504. Operation “NEPTUNE”, Report by Naval Commander, Eastern
Task Force, Enclosure “C”, Report of Proceedings of Force “S”.
ADM 179/505. Operation “NEPTUNE”, Report of the Naval Commander,
Eastern Task Force, Enclosure “D”, Report of Proceedings of Force
ADM 179/506. Operation “NEPTUNE”, Report by Naval Commander, Eastern
Task Force, Enclosure “E”, Report of Proceedings of Force “J”.
AVIA 22/456. Armoured fighting vehicles: conversions and modifications, 1942-
AVIA 22/469. Armoured fighting vehicles: monthly returns of deliveries, 1939-
AVIA 22/576. Blacker Bombard (297 mm Spigot-Mortar) weapon: requirements,
AVIA 22/511-514. Monthly Statistical Summaries nos. 1-46, 1942-1946.
AVIA 22/515-519. Statistical Summaries nos. 1-16 and Statistical Abstract,
DEFE 2/40. War Diary, No. 4 Commando.
WO 162/297. Dieppe Casualties, 28 August 1942
WO171/102. 21 Army Group G.S., January-April 1944.
WO 171/155. Appendix ‘A’ to R.A. Branch Headquarters 21st Army Group War
Diary May 1944.
WO 171/234. Second Army R.A. Landing Tables.
WO 171/863. Staffordshire Yeomanry War Diary, Jan.-Dec. 1944.
WO 171/864. 2 County of London Yeomanry (Westminster Dragoons), Jun.-Dec.
WO 171/1797. No. 1 Assault Brigade War Diary, June-December 1944.
WO 171/1800. No. 5 Assault Regiment War Diary, June-December 1944.
WO 179/409. 3rd British Infantry Division, Operation Order No. 1, OVERLORD,
14 May 1944.
WO 205/405. 21st Army Group G (Operations), August, September 1944.
WO 205/636. A.F.V. States, Summaries at HQ 21 Army Group, June-July.
WO 205/1120. Report by Brig. Watkinson on Work of Assault RE in the Invasion.
WO 205/1159. 79 Armoured Division Final Report, 1943 Apr.-1945 July.
WO 205/1160. The Story of the 1st Assault Brigade Royal Engineers, 1943-1945.
WO 205/1170. Chief Engineer 21 Army Group, R.E. Report on the Battle of
Normandy, 6th June – 5th July 1944.
WO 218/65 No. 3 Commando War Diary, June 1944.
WO 218/69, No. 6 Commando War Diary, June 1944.
WO 291/246. AORG Report No. 264, Opposition Encountered on the British
Beaches in Normandy on D-Day, ND, but apparently 1945.
Royal Navy. British Vessels Lost at Sea, 1939-45. London: HMSO, 1947.
U.S. Army Command and General Staff College, Combined Arms Research Library
Digital Library. Conference on Landing Assaults, 1 July 1943.
________Headquarters V Corps, Operations Plan NEPTUNE, 26 March
________. Notes on German Obstacles and Field Works, August 1943.
________. Operation Plan No. 2-44 of the Western Naval Task Force, Allied Naval
Expeditionary Force, 21 April 1944.
U.S. Army Engineer Agency for Resources Inventories. Landmine and Countermine
Warfare: North Africa, World War II. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government
Printing Office, 19972.
U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA):
RG 38, Records of the Office of the Chief of Naval Operations,
Operations Order No. 1-44, Western Naval Task Force, Assault Force
“O” (Task Force One Two Four), Naval Combat Demolition Group, 31
________. Operations Order No. 3-44, Western Naval Task Force, Assault Force
“U” (Task Force One Two Five), Naval Combat Demolitions Group, 15
RG 319, Records of the Army Staff, Historical Division, Background Files-Study
“American Forces in Action”, 1943-1946, Omaha Beachhead, Boxes 1
RG 331, Allied Operational and Occupation HQ, World War II, SHAEF, General
Staff G-1 Division, Administrative Section Decimal Files, Box 41,
704/5 First US Army Casualty Reports, Vol. I (15 June-19 July 1944).
21st Army Group Casualty (‘A’ SITREPS) Reports, Vol. I (10 June-22 July
RG338, ETO Secretary General Staff, Statistics Section, Historical and Statistical
Reports, 1944-1945, Box 3, D-Day Studies and Statistical Reports.
RG 407, Entry 427, Records of the Adjutant General, Adjutant General’s Reports.
______¬_. Box XXXXX, 304-1.3, 4th Infantry Division G-1 Journal File, June
________. Box 5909, 301-INF (16)-0.3, 16th Infantry Report of Operations, June
________. Box 5931, 301-INF (16) 6-0.1, "History Medical Det".
________. Box 16703, ARBN-741-0.1 to ARBN-741-0.16, 741st Tank Battalion
Unit Journal June-August 1944.
________. Box 16706, ARBN-743-0.3 to ARBN-743-3.2, 743rd Tank Battalion,
________. Pre-Invasion Planning. Box 24309, Folder 209, Overlord Conference,
21 December 1943.
RG 498, ETOUSA Historical Division Files. Box 8, Folder 44, Beaches.
________. Box 44, Folder ADM 220, Commander Assault Force “O” Western
Naval Task Force Action Report Assault on Colleville-Vierville Sector
Coast of Normandy
________. Box 73, Folder 359A, Notes on UTAH Beach and the 1st Engineer
Special Brigade (compiled 20 October-7 November 1944).
________. Box 117, Folder 493, Operation Report NEPTUNE, OMAHA Beach,
Provisional Engineer Special Brigade Group, 30 September 1944.
________. Box 117A, Folder 493, Operation Report NEPTUNE, OMAHA Beach,
Provisional Engineer Special Brigade Group, Photographs 30 September
U.S. War Department, Military Intelligence Service. German Coastal Defenses, Special
Series, No. 15. Washington, D.C.: War Department, 15 June 1943.
Alanbrooke, Lord. War Diaries, 1939-1945 Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke. Berkeley,
CA: University of California Press, 2001.
Arsicaud, Thierry. “The Modified British System”,
Balkoski, Joseph. OMAHA Beach, D-Day. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2004.
________. UTAH Beach. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2005.
Beck, Alfred M., et al, The Corps of Engineers: the War Against Germany. Washington,
D.C.: Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Gov. Print. Off. 1985.
Beck, Benjamin S. “War Diary 341 Battery, 8th Field regiment, R.A.”,
, © Benjamin S. Beck,
Berger, Sid. Breaching Fortress Europe: The Story of U.S. Engineers in Normandy on D-
Day. Dubuque, Iowa: Kendall/Hunt Pub. Co, 1994.
Bernage, George. Gold Juno Sword. Bayeux: Editions Heimdal, 2003.
________. OMAHA Beach. Bayeux: Editions Heimdal, 2002.
van der Bijl, Nicholas. No. 10 (Inter-Allied) Commando 1942-45: Britain's Secret
Commando. Oxford: Osprey, 2006.
van der Bijl, Nicholas and Lee Johnson. The Royal Marines, 1939-93. Elite Series, 57,
London: Osprey, 1994.
Birt, Raymond. XXII Dragoons 1760-1945, the Story of a Regiment, Aldershot: Gale &
Polden Limited, 1950.
Blacker, Barnaby. The Adventures and Inventions of Stewart Blacker Aviation Pioneer
and Weapons Inventor, Barnsley: Pen & Sword, 2006.
Buckingham, William F., D-Day, the First 72 Hours. London: Tempus, 2004.
Burn, Lambton. “Down Ramps!”, Saga of the Eighth Armada. London: Carroll &
Nicholson Ltd., 1947.
Campbell, John P. Dieppe Revisited: A Documentary Investigation. London: Frank Cass,
Canadian Forces, Department of National Defence. Customs and Traditions of the CME,
A-JS-007-003/JD-001, Annex A – Canadian Military Engineer Memorials.
Chamberlain, Peter, “Armoured Recovery Vehicles” in Duncan Crow, Ed., British and
Commonwealth AFVs, 1940-46. Garden City, NY: Doubleday, 1972.
Chamberlain, Peter and Chris Ellis, “Churchill and Sherman Specials” in Duncan Crow,
Ed., British and Commonwealth AFVs, 1940-46. Garden City, NY: Doubleday,
Commander U.S. Naval Forces Europe. The Invasion of Europe, Operation Neptune, Administrative History, United States Force in Europe 1940-1946, Vol. V. London: n.p.,
Conron, Brandon. A History of the First Hussars Regiment, 1856-1980. London, Ont: B.
Copp, Terry. Fields of Fire: The Canadians in Normandy. Toronto: University of
Toronto Press, 2003.
Daniels, Maj. Michael J. Innovation in the Face of Adversity: Major-General Sir Percy
Hobart and the 79th Armoured Division (British), MMAS Thesis, Fort Leavenworth, KS: U.S. Army Command and General Staff College, 2003.
Delaforce, Patrick. Churchill's Secret Weapons: The Story of Hobart's Funnies. Barnsley:
Pen & Sword Military Books, 2007.
D’Este, Carlo. Decision in Normandy. New York: Dutton, 1983.
Doubler, Michael D. Closing with the Enemy, How Gis fought the War in Europe, 1944-
1945. Lwrence: University Press of Kansas, 1994.
Duncan, N. W., C.B., C.B.E., D.S.O. “The 79th Armoured Division” in British and
Commonwealth AFVs 1940-46, Duncan Crow, editor. Garden City, New York:
Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1972.
Dunphie, Christopher and Garry Johnson. GOLD Beach, Inland from King – June 1944,
Battleground Europe. Barsley, England: Pen & Sword, 1999.
Eisenhower, Dwight D. The Papers of Dwight David Eisenhower, The War Years,
Volume III. Alfred D. Chandler, Jr., editor, Baltimore, MD: The Johns Hopkins
Ellis, L.F., G. W. G. Allen, A. E. Warhurst, and James Robb, Victory in the West. Vol.1,
The Battle of Normandy. London: H.M.S.O., London, 1962.
Ewing, Joseph. 29 Let’s Go: A History of the 29th Division in World War II. Washington,
D.C.: Infantry Journal Press, 1948.
Fletcher, David. “The Armoured Vehicle Royal Engineers”, NP, ND, unpublished
Ford, Ken. D-Day 1944. (4), Gold & Juno Beaches. Osprey campaign series, 112. Oxford: Osprey, 2002.
French, David. “Colonel Blimp and the British Army: British Divisional Commanders in
the War against Germany, 1939-1945”, The English Historical Review, Vol. 111, No. 444 (November 1996), pp. 1182-1201.
________. Raising Churchill’s Army, the British Army and the War against Germany
1919-1945. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2000.
Friends of the Green Howards, The Regiment’s VC Holders, “WO II Stanley E Hollis, VC”, http://www.greenhowards.org.uk/html-fil ... hollis.htm
Greenfield, Kent Roberts, Robert R. Palmer, and Bell I. Wiley. The Organization of
Ground Combat Troops. Washington, D.C.: Historical Division, Department of
the Army, 1947.
Green Howards Museum. “W O II Stanley E. Hollis, VC”,
Harrison, Gordon A. Cross-Channel Attack. Washington, D.C.: Center of Military
History, United States Army, 1951.
Hogg, Ian V. German Artillery of World War II, London: Greenhill Books, 1997.
Hunnicutt, R.P. Sherman, a History of the American Medium Tank. Novato, Calif.:
Presidio Press, 1978.
Inglis, Major General John D. “The Work of the Royal Engineers in North-West
Europe”, R.U.S.I. Journal, May 1946.
Kaufmann, J. E. and H. W. Kaufmann. Fortress Third Reich. Cambridge, MA: Da Capo
Kilvert-Jones, Tim. OMAHA Beach, V Corps’ Battle for the Normandy Beachead,
Battleground, Europe. Barnsley, England: Pen & Sword, 1999.
________. SWORD Beach, British 3rd Infantry Division/27th Armoured Brigade,
Battleground Europe. Barnsley, England: Pen & Sword, 2001.
Kindell, Don. Casualty Lists of the Royal Navy and Dominion Navies, 1922-present,
, © 2008.
Lamb, Richard. Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945. New York: Franklin Watts, 1984.
Lee, David. Beachhead Assault. London: Greenhill Books, 2004.
Lewis, Adrian R. OMAHA Beach, A Flawed Victory. Chapel Hill: University of North
Carolina Press, 2001.
Little, Sgt. P. “History of the Armoured Vehicle Royal Engineers (AVRE)”, SITREP, 2
Canadian Field Engineers Newsletter, Vol. 5, Issue 3, (June 2005).
Macksey, Major Kenneth J. Armoured Crusader: a biography of Major-General Sir
Percy Hobart. London: Hutchinson, 1967.
McNish, Robin. Iron Division: the History of the 3rd Division 1809-1989. London: Ian
M.G. Cars. “Calling All Arms!! Experience at M.G. During Wartime”,
Mills-Roberts, Derek. Clash by Night, A Commando Chronicle. London: W. Kimber,
Morison, Samuel Eliot. The Invasion of France and Germany 1944-1945, History of the
United States Naval Operations in World War II, Vol. XI. New York: Little,
Brown, and Company, (Inc), 1957.
Neillands, Robin. The Battle of Normandy 1944. London: Cassell, 2002.
Nightingale, P. R. A History of the East Yorkshire Regiment (Duke of York’s Own) in the
War of 1939-1945. East Riding: Mr. Pye, 1952.
O’Dell, James Douglas. “Joint-Service Beach Obstacle Demolition in World War II”,
Engineer, April-June 2005.
Orsbourn, M. E. The Shortest Gap: Story of the Armoured Engineers Vehicles of Royal
Engineers. NP, ND.
Parsch, Andreas. Directory of U. S. Military Rockets and Missiles,
Pogue, Forrest Carlisle. The European Theater of Operations. Vol.4, The Supreme
Command. United States Army in World War II. Washington, D.C.: Office of the
Chief of Military History United States Army, 1954.
Pederson, Lieutenant Colonel Maynard P., et al. Armor in Operation NEPTUNE
(Establishment of the Normandy Beachhead), Committee 10, Officers Advanced
Course, Fort Knox, KY: May 1949, U.S. Army Armored School.
Radcliffe, Major G. L. Y. and Captain R. Sale, History of the 2nd Battalion The King's
Shropshire Light Infantry (85th Foot) in the Campaign in N.W. Europe 1944-
1945. Oxford: Basil Blackwood, 1947.
Reynolds, Major General Michael. Eagles and Bulldogs in Normandy, 1944. Havertown:
PA, Casemate, 2003.
Rommel, Erwin, and Basil Henry Liddell Hart. The Rommel Papers. New York: Da Capo
Saunders, Tim. GOLD Beach-JIG, JIG Sector and West-June 1944, Battleground Europe.
Barnsley, England: Pen & Sword, 2002.
Scarfe, Norman. Assault Division: A History of the 3rd Division from the Invasion of
Normandy to the Surrender of Germany. London: Collins, 1947.
Schmeelke, Karl-Heinz and Michael. Fortress Europe, the Atlantic Wall Guns. Atglen,
________. German Defensive Batteries & Gun Emplacements on the Normandy Beaches,
Invasion: D-Day June 6, 1944.
________. Guns of the Atlantic Wall. Atglen, PA: Schiffer, 1998.
Shilleto, Carl. Pegasus Bridge, Merville Battery, Battleground Europe. Barnsley,
England: Pen & Sword, 1999.
________. UTAH Beach, St Mère Église, VII Corps, 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions,
Battleground Europe. Barnsley, England: Pen & Sword, 2001.
Singer, Joyce. “Tanks for the Memories”, Today’s Seniors, August, 1994.
Slee, Jeff. “The Story of 45 Royal Marine Command, Combinedops.com.
Southsea Sub-aqua. “Divers Solve D-Day Tanks Mystery”,
Stacey, C.P. The Victory Campaign: The Operations in North-West Europe, 1944-1945.
Ottawa: Cloutier, 1960.
The Story of 45 Royal Marine Commando,
http://www.combinedops.com/45%20Royal%2 ... mmando.htm
Tear, Jack. “WW2 People’s War, BBC,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stor ... 4258.shtml
U.S. War Department, Department of the Army Historical Division. OMAHA Beachhead,
American Forces in Action, Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office,
________. UTAH Beach to Cherbourg, American Forces in Action, Washington, D.C.:
U.S. Government Printing Office, 1947.
Weigley, Russell F. Eisenhower’s Lieutenants. Bloomington: Indiana University Press,
Wilmot, Chester. The Struggle for Europe, New York: Harper & Brothers Publishers,
World War II Landing Craft Tanks, http://ww2lct.org/main.htm
Robert D. Blegen, “LCT (5) Flotilla 18 at Omaha Beach, D-Day, June 6, 1944”
Edwin L. Kaufmann, “LCT (A)s At Normandy on D-Day”
Larry Noel, “LCTs and LCT (A)s in Normandy D-Day, June 6, 1944”
Bill O’Neill, “D-Day, June 6, 1944 as Seen from US LCT (6) 544”
Joe Suozzo, “LCT’s at Normandy, Force “U””
Zaloga, Steven.. US Armored Funnies, US Specialized Armored Vehicles in the ETO in
World War II. Hong Kong: Concord Publications Co., 2005.
Zaloga, Steven and Howard Gerrard. D-Day 1944. 1, Omaha Beach. Campaign, 100.
Oxford: Osprey, 2003.
________. D-Day 1944. 2, Utah Beach & the US Airborne Landings. Campaign, 104.
Oxford: Osprey, 2004.
Zaloga, Steven and Hugh Johnson, Lee Ray, and Chris Taylor. The Atlantic Wall 1,
France. Fortress, 63. Oxford: Osprey, 2007.
Zaloga, Steven. D-Day Fortifications in Normandy. Fortress, 37. Oxford: Osprey, 2005.
Zetterling, Niklas. Normandy 1944, German Military Organization, Combat Power and
Organizational Effectiveness. Winnipeg, Manitoba: J.J. Fedorowicz Publishing,
Ziegelmann, Fritz. “The 352nd Infantry Division (MS B-432)” in David Isby, Ed., The
German Army at D-Day. London: Greenhill Books, 2004.
Knock yourself out dude, spend the 20-odd years I've spent going through the documentation, primary and secondary, and then get back to me. In the meantime, forgive me if I treat you like you don't know what you're talking about, because you don't.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018