What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

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What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#1

Post by Futurist » 12 Nov 2021, 22:50

What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933? As for me:

1. Avoid generalized anti-Semitism. Explain that "my" anti-Semitism is only directed towards "bad" Jews such as Jewish Communists and NOT towards Jews as a whole. Embrace Jews who are willing to assimilate, such as this group of German Jews:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associati ... ional_Jews

This also means avoiding anti-Semitic legislation, Kristallnacht, et cetera. And of course NOT encouraging German Jews to emigrate en masse.

2. Take better charge of my security so that no one will ever come close to murdering me like they did in both 1939 and 1944.

3. Give Romania a better deal in the Second Vienna Award in 1940--perhaps something like this:

https://www.google.com/search?tbs=simg: ... 47f-0QopAM

4. Aim for a Brest-Litovsk-style peace settlement in the East in 1941 as opposed to aiming for the conquest of the entire European part of the Soviet Union. And also don't expect the war to be over in six weeks or even in six months.

5. Build this defensive line as early as possible if an early peace with the Soviet Union cannot be made in the hopes of bleeding the Soviet Union dry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther%E ... Wotan_line

6. No Holocaust. I'd rather have people starve due to food shortages than be murdered. In any case, some of the Jews here could be useful to Germany's war effort.

7. Portray the war in the East as a liberation crusade against Bolshevism rather than as a quest for Lebensraum.

8. Avoid bringing the US into the war for as long as possible.

What else would work for this?

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Re: What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#2

Post by wm » 12 Nov 2021, 23:47

The no-Holocaust scenario changes nothing. Military, economic, geopolitical benefits are minimal.
Similarly the better deal for Romania and better security.
The Nazis actually portrayed themselves as liberators from day one, so no benefit here either.
The war with the US was inevitable because the US wanted and Japanese demanded it.
The peace settlement depended only on Stalin - Hitler had nothing to say in it.


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Re: What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#3

Post by Futurist » 12 Nov 2021, 23:51

wm wrote:
12 Nov 2021, 23:47
The no-Holocaust scenario changes nothing. Military, economic, geopolitical benefits are minimal.
Similarly the better deal for Romania and better security.
The Nazis actually portrayed themselves as liberators from day one, so no benefit here either.
The war with the US was inevitable because the US wanted and Japanese demanded it.
The peace settlement depended only on Stalin - Hitler had nothing to say in it.
Didn't Stalin offer Hitler Brest-Litovsk peace terms in late 1941 but Hitler said "No"?

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Re: What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#4

Post by wm » 13 Nov 2021, 00:03

I think it didn't happen. The (fake) Stalin offers were intended to make the Allies love him more. Similarly the constant demands for the Second Front.

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Re: What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#5

Post by Futurist » 13 Nov 2021, 00:11

wm wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 00:03
I think it didn't happen. The (fake) Stalin offers were intended to make the Allies love him more. Similarly the constant demands for the Second Front.
Then there is still the option of trying to bleed the Soviet Union dry through an aggressive defense on the Dvina-Dnieper Line and the option of going for Moscow instead of Kiev in August-September 1941.

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Re: What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#6

Post by wm » 13 Nov 2021, 01:09

That assumes the Soviets like to be bled dry and will cooperate.

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Re: What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#7

Post by Futurist » 13 Nov 2021, 01:18

wm wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 01:09
That assumes the Soviets like to be bled dry and will cooperate.
They won't like it, but will they have better options?

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Re: What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#8

Post by wm » 13 Nov 2021, 01:42

War of maneuver (in the bypassing and cutting off enemy strongpoints sense), and of course Soviet deep battle.

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Re: What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#9

Post by glenn239 » 13 Nov 2021, 02:03

Futurist wrote:
12 Nov 2021, 22:50
What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?
Launch Sealion in 1940. If it works, step down and reinstate the Reichtag on the basis of the peace achieved. If it failed, step down and do the same on the basis of the fact it failed. Make peace with France so that Petain can move the government to Paris and become legitimate, but keep possession of the Maginot Line for the time being. Reestablish the League of Nations, with most of the munchkins in it either directly under German occupation or threatened by it, but get the Soviets into the League. Above all else, don't start a land war in Asia.

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Re: What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#10

Post by Futurist » 13 Nov 2021, 05:21

glenn239 wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 02:03
Futurist wrote:
12 Nov 2021, 22:50
What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?
Launch Sealion in 1940. If it works, step down and reinstate the Reichtag on the basis of the peace achieved. If it failed, step down and do the same on the basis of the fact it failed. Make peace with France so that Petain can move the government to Paris and become legitimate, but keep possession of the Maginot Line for the time being. Reestablish the League of Nations, with most of the munchkins in it either directly under German occupation or threatened by it, but get the Soviets into the League. Above all else, don't start a land war in Asia.
Stepping down in 1940 after the Fall of France and letting Goering make any subsequent decisions actually would solidify Hitler's likely place in history as the greatest German ever. The Holocaust hasn't started yet, and his various atrocities against the Jews will be excused and/or overlooked by Germans who will eagerly point out that he brought their country glory and avenged their World War I defeat at French hands! In fact, not even bothering with trying Sealion would have been even better; then Hitler's reputation would not have faced any risk of additional tarnishing.

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Re: What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#11

Post by Peter89 » 13 Nov 2021, 08:52

Don't start the war at all, and invest all money into technology and society. Germany was the capital of science and technology, and they had every chance to take a leading role in the world. By the time the colonial empires collapsed, Germany could extend its economic and political influence and replace the French and British. This way, Germany could win a war without starting it.
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."

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Re: What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#12

Post by Futurist » 13 Nov 2021, 09:25

Peter89 wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 08:52
Don't start the war at all, and invest all money into technology and society. Germany was the capital of science and technology, and they had every chance to take a leading role in the world. By the time the colonial empires collapsed, Germany could extend its economic and political influence and replace the French and British. This way, Germany could win a war without starting it.
Makes perfect sense, honestly.

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Re: What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#13

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 13 Nov 2021, 10:06

Ban posting more than two "What If" threads in a month. This smarter Hitler foresees/invents the internet and forums, knows that a good ATL requires too much thought to produce them serially.
https://twitter.com/themarcksplan
https://www.reddit.com/r/AxisHistoryForum/
https://medium.com/counterfactualww2
"The whole question of whether we win or lose the war depends on the Russians." - FDR, June 1942

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Re: What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#14

Post by wm » 13 Nov 2021, 13:41

Futurist wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 05:21
Stepping down in 1940 after the Fall of France and letting Goering make any subsequent decisions actually would solidify Hitler's likely place in history as the greatest German ever.
That would be a G-d given gift to British propaganda (Hiter deposed by his most trusted henchmen!).
It would destabilize the regime (top Nazis were each other's enemies, Himmler/Goebbels feared Hitler but not Goering).
It would sow defeatism, fear, and doubt among the Germans themselves.

The British demanded the pre-war borders. Hitler/Goering couldn't do that without facing the wrath of the Germans. And the post-war inflation and economic collapse in Germany would be a sight to behold.

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Re: What would you do differently if you were a smarter version of Adolf Hitler starting from 1933?

#15

Post by Futurist » 13 Nov 2021, 19:57

wm wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 13:41
Futurist wrote:
13 Nov 2021, 05:21
Stepping down in 1940 after the Fall of France and letting Goering make any subsequent decisions actually would solidify Hitler's likely place in history as the greatest German ever.
That would be a G-d given gift to British propaganda (Hiter deposed by his most trusted henchmen!).
It would destabilize the regime (top Nazis were each other's enemies, Himmler/Goebbels feared Hitler but not Goering).
It would sow defeatism, fear, and doubt among the Germans themselves.

The British demanded the pre-war borders. Hitler/Goering couldn't do that without facing the wrath of the Germans. And the post-war inflation and economic collapse in Germany would be a sight to behold.
Maybe just kill myself right then and there, eh? ;)

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