RTR 4

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Eugenius
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Re: RTR 4

#106

Post by Eugenius » 21 Nov 2021, 15:54

Terve guys, and here goes our next issue of Finnish coastal artillery news. This week we made a trip to north Ladoga with a couple of my friends, so here are the results:

- 39.Rask.Ptri in Haapaniemi - all roads leading there are blocked now while the distances are too far for walking. Generally it is possible to drive closer to the battery's location, but one had to have well-geared off-road car with winch, sand tracks etc., which we did not have. So we had to leave this task for next year's spring.

Then we had to spend a couple of hours for minor car repair, so 2 guys were repairing the car while the third one walked to check the position of II/3.Mt.Rask.Ptri north of Pisinjoki mouth - and it was found! Approximate location is 60.82999, 32.81655 and there is only one picture so far:

IMG_0269.JPG

So my friend found 2 positions of 122K/31 guns, 2 positions of 47/40 guns, probable searchlight basement and at least 2 concrete cornerstones for observation tower. There was simply no time to make detailed inspection of the area, taking photos and defining precise co-ordinates as it was nearly dark. This task is also left for next spring, but now we know exact location of the battery and that many objects remained till now.

Again, we did not check the position of I/3.Mt.Rask.Ptri with 2/122K/31 guns south of Pisinjoki due to lack of time. A question: why 122K/31 guns north of the river are shown facing Ladoga/westwards while the same guns south of the river are shown facing southwards? Were the former installed as coastal guns (and received concrete basement) while the latter used as field guns for inland targets (I wonder - which ones?) and had no basements? Map source: http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=4461182

So the next day we moved to Hiitolanmäki south of Impilahti to find the second position of 37.Rask.Ptri. As there were 3 of us, it did not take much time:

The trench cut in rock leads to the gunpit:

DSCF5360 Дворик финской батареи, 61.61334, 31.15269.JPG

The trench gets deeper:

DSCF5361.JPG
DSCF5362.JPG

Ready service locker right of the entrance to the gunpit:

DSCF5363.JPG

Eugenius
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Re: RTR 4

#107

Post by Eugenius » 21 Nov 2021, 16:00

The gunpit is really large, cut in rock and overgrown with spruces, so it was not possible to fit it in full into camera view:

DSCF5364.JPG
DSCF5379.JPG
DSCF5380.JPG
DSCF5382.JPG
DSCF5383.JPG


Eugenius
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Re: RTR 4

#108

Post by Eugenius » 21 Nov 2021, 16:47

Gun basement studs should be here, but I did not find them. The bottom of the gunpit is covered with rather thick layer of waterlogged moss; I believe the studs are somewhere beneath, but they are just not visible under the moss, and we had no shovels with us to clear up the gunpit:

DSCF5393 Место основания орудия, шпилек не видно.JPG

Looking at the location of both guns, I think their targets were not Soviet ships in Ladoga, but rather approaches to Pitkäranta and/or Sortavala ports.

Then we moved southwards to Impiniemi to search for observation and range-finding post of the battery.

Local roads and local fun:

IMG_0305.JPG

There are trenches and observation positions (?), though not finished, on the highest point of the peninsula. A frame basement of the crew house is located east of the hill. Could this be a basement of the range-finder?

DSCF5427 Предположительно позиция дальномера, 61.59336, 31.14525.JPG

Some views:

DSCF5429.JPG
DSCF5434.JPG

Eugenius
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Re: RTR 4

#109

Post by Eugenius » 21 Nov 2021, 17:30

Interesting item was found on our way back - 4 still rods hammered in rock and ca. 10 cm round hole. We found ca. 2 m long stick and decided to measure the depth of the hole - the stick did not reach the bottom! Was it radio antenna basement?

DSCF5440 Предположительно основание антенны, 61.59495, 31.14477.JPG

Our last point was location of 43. Rask. Ptri. near Haukkalampi - the one I tried to search in July on the field overgrown with Maitohorsmat. There was much less grass now, and I also should thank local Villisikat, which crushed the most of high grass, so I've got moderately wet after roaming the field. That was just a field of a Finnish farmer with ruins of farm buildings closer to the forest - and nothing else. While I was exploring the field, my colleagues promptly found both gunpits closer to Haukkalampi - ML, you were absolutely right when suggested alternative co-ordinates!

The first one:

DSCF5444 Финский орудийный дворик, 61.6523, 31.32194.JPG

No metal, no stones - the position was made completely of wood and earth with wooden gun basement.

A trench coming out of the gunpit is still clearly visible:

DSCF5447.JPG

The second gunpit is partly flooded:

DSCF5455 Финский орудийный дворик, 61.65299, 31.32237.JPG

So now we know that captain Laakkonen and his fellows were swimming not in Ladoga, but in Haukkalampi - I guess the water was warmer there.))) See SA-kuva pictures 158079 - 158104.

Like Hiitolanmäki battery, this one was also targeted not to Ladoga, but to Pitkäranta - Koirinoja road. Both gunpits are exactly like the one I found approximately at 61.64567, 30.79255 on Riekkalansaari. I still regret I did not make a picture of that one.

Just to remind: all co-ordinates are mentioned in files' names.

So I sincerely thank all of you who helped me with maps, co-ordinates, advices etc.! I'm not sure that I go that area again before spring as daylight hours are really short now, so efficiency of every trip is quite low - you simply have no time to reach (and to find) a good number of objects during daylight.

As usual, your comments would be highly appreciated.

ML
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Re: RTR 4

#110

Post by ML » 01 Dec 2021, 20:56

Thanks for the photos and nice to see you again found new gun positions.
So now we know that captain Laakkonen and his fellows were swimming not in Ladoga, but in Haukkalampi - I guess the water was warmer there.))) See SA-kuva pictures 158079 - 158104.
I had not noticed that there are photos of 43.Rask.Ptri at Mursula. Funny that the original captions write vuorikanuunapatteri (mountain cannon battery). The 152/35 Mk guns were far from lightweight mountain cannons.

Eugenius
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Re: RTR 4

#111

Post by Eugenius » 02 Dec 2021, 00:21

ML wrote:
01 Dec 2021, 20:56
I had not noticed that there are photos of 43.Rask.Ptri at Mursula. Funny that the original captions write vuorikanuunapatteri (mountain cannon battery). The 152/35 Mk guns were far from lightweight mountain cannons.
- actually those photos from SA-kuva were found not by me, but by one of colleagues from our local Fortoved forum in St. Petersburg: http://fortoved.ru/forum/index.php?t=ms ... #msg_60669 He also noticed wrong designation of that gun as "mountain gun" and that on some plans this gun was mistakenly marked as 157/35-MK.

The whole thread http://fortoved.ru/forum/index.php?t=ms ... 01ab682d1d is dedicated to this gun. Of course, it will be not easy for you to read Russian, but I think that at least some pictures and drawings published there might be interesting for you.

Eugenius
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Re: RTR 4

#112

Post by Eugenius » 19 May 2022, 20:24

Terve guys, yesterday I made the first trip of the season to Ladoga to visit some points we discussed earlier as probable coastal batteries locations. Unfortunately, with no result:

- Position of 2/152/45C guns in July 1944 near Kesvalahti, points 61.3712, 30.1612 and 61.3722, 30.1598. The first point near the road is just ruin of a Finnish farmstead. Another one is on a hill, but with no any trace of construction works. Numerous pits on lowland here and there, but they are most likely of natural origin - no banking, no trenches. That area is rather wild now, so if we try to re-calculate battery's location, it might be worth searching again. I remember, when we tried to find position of 43. Rask. Ptri of 2/152/35МК guns near Haukkalampi, the initially defined point was ca. 600 m away from actual location of the battery.

- Position of 405. Kev. Ptri, 4/75 K/17 in Tervunkylä in July - August 1944, point 61.3235, 30.1379 - a rocky hill dominating the surroundings, could be quite suitable for battery location, but no any trace of it. Well, those 75 K/17 wheeled guns did not require any prepared position at all.

- Additionally searched Riihipelto area looking for the second gun position of 40. Rask. Ptri. Met the same guy from nearest estate I met last year, searched the area with no fruits. Probably the second position was destroyed during construction of that estate or the road to it. Or it could be a pit near the road I mentioned last year.

- Suokkala area is now built up with cottages. I tried to find keskiö we discussed at viewtopic.php?f=59&t=157689&start=90#p2368270 Found one cellar, but definitely not that one pictured at SA-kuva. It was a business day, all the homes were empty with no-one to ask about local attractions. It's rather difficult to search inhabited area with no exact co-ordinates and no local residents to ask - you permanently meet buildings, fences, dogs, abandoned areas on backyards etc.

Unfortunately, no good news for you so far. But I keep trying...

Eugenius
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Re: RTR 4

#113

Post by Eugenius » 29 Jul 2022, 21:08

Terve guys. Let's continue with Finnish coastal batteries on Ladoga and move to Konevitsa. I found almost no info about 2 batteries on the island. One Russian source mentioned that both 2 x 6'' Canet batteries on Konevitsa along with 2 x 120 mm Jarisevä battery were the first set up on Ladoga and were battle ready by 31.10.1921 (strange is that Vahtiniemi battery was not mentioned). It looks that Finnish wartime photographers were much more interested in picturing monastery rather than batteries on Konevitsa, so there are almost no pictures on SA-kuva. But the batteries are really interesting and unusual.

So, northern battery, south gunpit at 60.88229, 30.63389:

DSCF2796 Финская северная батарея, южный дворик, 60.88229, 30.63389.JPG

Gun basement:

DSCF2797.JPG

The battery had quite unusual munition cellars - a pair of concrete niches on each side of the gunpit. Here is the right one:

DSCF2800.JPG
DSCF2803.JPG

It looks the cellars' doors are original:

DSCF2804.JPG

Eugenius
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Re: RTR 4

#114

Post by Eugenius » 29 Jul 2022, 21:24

The right munitions niche. Trust me, the left one is absolutely identical.)))

DSCF2805.JPG

The view from the cellar to the stair leading to the gunpit:

DSCF2807.JPG

The widest angle my camera allowed from the top of right cellar to the gunpit:

DSCF2809.JPG

Here you may see that the gunpit was not semicircular, but had straight walls with visible corners:

DSCF2810.JPG

The left cellar:

DSCF2811.JPG

Eugenius
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Re: RTR 4

#115

Post by Eugenius » 29 Jul 2022, 21:40

The cellars' doors were not so thick, ca 5 mm:

DSCF2816.JPG

The view from the left cellar to the stair leading to gunpit:

DSCF2819.JPG

And here is the northern gunpit. It's much more overgrown and there is a cross-shaped construction mounted on the gun basement. Note 5 walls fencing the gunpit:

DSCF2833 Финская северная батарея, северный дворик, 60.88259, 30.63376.JPG

It is known that northern part of the island was used for various experiments with chemical weapons in 1950ies, later it was used by Soviet navy for testing various naval weapons. Military activity on the island ceased with Soviet Union collapse, but still this area has limited access as it is used for storage of various equipment (which on 90 % is just scrap and trash, as far as I could saw)))).

Left side munition cellar:

DSCF2841.JPG

DSCF2842.JPG

Eugenius
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Re: RTR 4

#116

Post by Eugenius » 29 Jul 2022, 21:52

The left cellar and the gun basement. Sorry for a lot of vegetation:

DSCF2844.JPG

The right cellar is completely overgrown with shrubs and spruces - there was no possibility to picture it. But I hope it was the same as the left one.

Let's move to the southern battery. It looks really strange as it was built around with numerous ugly barns and turned into a storage. Here is the eastern gunpit, which is in better shape. No idea who constructed this ramp and cut the door in the gunpit wall.

DSCF2847 Финская южная батарея, восточный дворик, 60.83659, 30.61402.JPG

But what is unusual is that "bulb" on the outer side of gunpit walls:

DSCF2850.JPG

Top view of the gunpit - it looks much more "Finnish")))

DSCF2852.JPG

The strange cut-through in the wall:

DSCF2853.JPG

Eugenius
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Re: RTR 4

#117

Post by Eugenius » 29 Jul 2022, 22:27

No gun pedestal - just a flat gunpit. Note the passage blocked with concrete:

DSCF2854.JPG

The other passage on the other side is open, and it leads to a munition cellar:

DSCF2859.JPG

Here is top view - the passage, the "bulb" (which protects the passage) and probably the entrance to the cellar from outside visible on top right:

DSCF2860.JPG

As far as I understood, initially gunpits of the southern battery were the same like those of the northern one. Later on someone (the Finns?..) at a certain time (during Continuation War?..) decided to protect the battery the better way: higher walls with traditional Finnish overhang were added, the stairs to the cellars (that's why the "bulb" in the outer wall appeared) and the back side of the cellars were covered with concrete.

It's difficult to tell now how the entrance to the cellar looked like after modernization. Now it has a kind of corridor made with bricks (visible on previous picture on top right), but the quality of this construction clearly says it was Soviet-made.)))

The right cellar. The exit is visible to the right, but now it has that corridor made with bricks added:

DSCF2862.JPG

The entrance from the gunpit to the left cellar is now blocked, but the cellars remained:

DSCF2870.JPG

Eugenius
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Re: RTR 4

#118

Post by Eugenius » 29 Jul 2022, 22:44

There is picture Nr. 51609 at SA-Kuva showing most likely one of the gunpits of the northern battery:

51609_53249.jpg

You may see that protection of that gupit and the cellar was improved as well, but with stones and logs, and that was done before the Continuation War as the picture is dated 27.09.1941. Probably the same improvements were made on the southern battery as well, but as the southern battery was much more important now, it was finally decided to spent some concrete to make it even better protected.

The western gunpit of the southern battery looks like this:

DSCF2892 Финская южная батарея, западный дворик, 60.83639, 30.6134.JPG
DSCF2895.JPG

Just a dump inside:

DSCF2899.JPG

One of the cellars has exactly the same construction. Note the entrance to the cellar from outside (filled with bricks) is located at another place than in eastern gunpit:

DSCF2900.JPG

The other cellar is completely blocked as a kind of stove was placed inside the gunpit and the cellar was probably turned into furnace (?).

So I hope I did not bore you too much. I would be glad to get your comments concerning the history of these truly unique batteries on Konevitsa.

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: RTR 4

#119

Post by Juha Tompuri » 30 Jul 2022, 07:38

Thanks!

Very interesting photos from a very interesting and unique place.
Thank you.
Let's move to the southern battery. It looks really strange as it was built around with numerous ugly barns and turned into a storage. Here is the eastern gunpit, which is in better shape. No idea who constructed this ramp and cut the door in the gunpit wall.
The cut was done to move in/out something that shape/size?

Regards, Juha

Eugenius
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Re: RTR 4

#120

Post by Eugenius » 30 Jul 2022, 17:55

Juha Tompuri wrote:
30 Jul 2022, 07:38
The cut was done to move in/out something that shape/size?
- the cut through with ramp and door theoretically could be made by the Finns, but I can't even guess about the reason. The door is obviously more narrow than the ramp. On the other hand, both the ramp and gunpit walls from outside are covered with waterproofing, but this could be done by the Soviets after ramp construction.

As about "the major" cut through the overhang - yes, it was done obviously during the Soviet time for bringing in and mounting any kind of equipment.

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