After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
Linkagain
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After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by Linkagain » 19 Nov 2021 15:53

The Old 700 year Ottman Empire which was supported by the British Empire for nearly 90 years and has been supported by the US since the end of World War II 70 years has been reveived.....occupy part of Cyprus; Lyba; Northern syria.... :milwink:
https://www.thehebrewcafe.com/forum/sho ... 17#pid5417
Probably lebonon...Iraq is next :milwink:

Tosun Saral
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Re: After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by Tosun Saral » 23 Nov 2021 12:35

Yes you are right. We will strike back. We are striking. According to the article 16 of Lousanne Peace treaty between Turkey and allies we have the right to interfere the old ottoman territories such as Cyprus, Iraq, Syria, Aegean İslands if there is a change in the current state and situation eg breakdown of union, collapse of the state, infestation
1- A greek Nicos simpson rioted againts president Makarios and send him to exile and declared annexation of Cyrprus to Greece. So It was Turkey's right to interfere the situation to save the lives of turkish citizens of Cyprus and to restore the order.
2-In Syria USA wants to establish a kurdish state. some islamic terror organizatios disturbed the order in Syria. So Turkey entered Syria. Will remain there till the order is restored.
3- USA occupied Iraq because Saddam was not acting as their puppet. He was an arap nationalist. Since 20 yeras there is no order in Irag. The kurds of Norther Irag supported by USA wants to establish an independed state. the article 16 dont mermid Iraq divided into 2 parts. The kurd are now advancing towards southern Irag where turkic turcoman Türkmen tribes living Kerkük as the capital city of Iragi Turkmenistan. Turkey will strike. At the end of WW1 only 7 million poor, un educated turks fought againts a mighty empire. Now 85 million well educated and modern turk can strike. Middle Eest is our territory.

stevebecker
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Re: After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by stevebecker » 24 Nov 2021 02:16

Mate,

How nice you believe this.

But you miss your own history.

Turkey or as is was before the Ottoman Empire, was a Christian state founded by a Roman Emporer
It was and has been a Christian state longer than a Islamic state.

Sure Turkey had these places under Ottoman rule, but they also held these states under Christian rule as part of the Bizentine Empire, longer again.

IS Turkey just re ajusting what was held under that Empire, not the Ottoman Empire or both?

Islam took these places from the Christians during a long period of slaughter and swallowed up the Kurds and others into there own empire, so they (Kurds and Others) now want there own lands back, Turkey, just like Britiain had to face in the Forthies or as the Russians did in the eighties as their empires broke up, that these subject peoples want the freedom from Turkey and like for so many years are still willing to fight for it. Purhaps you should think about giving it back to them, instead of dreaming of the former Empire.

Turkey under Kemal and many others was a better state, then under the present leader, who has stated the region problem again?
Why, because, as in some parts of the US, it sells

Of cause you have to be careful, because what happen to the last Great Empire in Central Turkey, like the Hittites, and or Mithridates, and the Ottomans, who likewise went after the countries around it and finished up with the end of them?
S.B

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Re: After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by Tosun Saral » 25 Nov 2021 13:34

Dear Steve, according to your theory you must evacuate australia and new zeeland. canada and america :) we arrived in 1o71. ın 2071 it will be 1000 years. since 1000 years anatolia is our home. cheers. take care.

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Re: After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by stevebecker » 25 Nov 2021 21:31

Tosun,
My Freind I was thinking you (Turkey) have been fighting these peoples for hundreds of years, Eastern Turkey has been under attack by a number of groups that want there our countries like the Armenians have.
The kurds and others should and can have there own lands, which was taken from them hundreds of years ago by different Empires, but there still there.
Instead of killing each other talk and grant them their own country?
Of cause I known why you don't, because Turkey is afraid that it would because a base for more attacks.
Much like Pakistan was for those in Afganistan.
We are never going to solve the problems that run so deep here.
So stay safe and may god protect you.
S.B

Tosun Saral
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Re: After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by Tosun Saral » 17 Dec 2021 12:21

Good words dear Steve. First of all I wish you and your famili a merry Chrismass. Kurds of Turkey nearly 15 million dont want a seperate state. They are happy living here with us. İt is like nail and flesh. There are many metrriages between us. It can not be seperated. There is terror but the % 99.99 of Kurds want to live with Turks. İstanbul is the langest kurdish city in the world. Fethiye my homaland was pure turkish turcoman. Now many kurds from east came and sattled in Fethiye. They escapad from terror. They only want to raise their childen in a better condition. Other towns and city are also crowded with eastern Kurds. They have their own party reperesented in the parliament. Although there is a anti democratic isslamic regime exists in turkey in which we are corrupting day by day. I9.- TL is to 1 US Dolar. I believe that sone regulations must be taken for the Kurd eg. schools teaching their mother lanquage ect. The Kurds of Northern Iraq have their autonomy. Turkey is the only friend of the Kurds.Araps hate kurds. Kurdish northern Iraq consumes all its goods from Turkey. Without turkey they dont have any change. They come to Turkey to tread their sicks. There is only a group who wants terrör among araps and kurds. If USA and russia dont support them there will be peace in this part of the world. The problem is who will control petrolium.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by Sid Guttridge » 17 Dec 2021 13:58

Hi Tosun Saral,

You post, "Kurds of Turkey nearly 15 million dont want a seperate state. They are happy living here with us."

This is unproveable without an independently adjudicated referendum.

Perhaps this should be decided by such a referendum?

Cheers,

Sid.

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wm
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Re: After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by wm » 19 Dec 2021 22:59

There is no example in history of an established and developed culture accepting its conquest.

You could ask the Poles, Czechs, Greeks, Serbians, i.e., people ruled by others sometimes for hundreds of years.
Actually, they served their masters well. They were their generals, administrators, businessmen. They intermarried.
But the resentment was always there, impossible to eradicate.
So they served well till the masters got weak and vulnerable.

On the other hand, the overruling principle in international law is the sanctity of (established) international borders. The Turks don't have to ask Kurds if they want to secede or not. Because they can't.

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Re: After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by Sid Guttridge » 20 Dec 2021 00:07

Hi wm,

You are probably right that, "There is no example in history of an established and developed culture accepting its conquest". However, until the rise of nationalism a couple of hundred years ago, it was widely the case that people lived in multi-national states. Presumably the subordinate peoples didn't much like it, but they seem to have been more resigned then because their very existence usually wasn't under threat and their situation was common. The formation of nation states in recent centuries led central governments to try to homogenize their societies by eliminating internal national differences in favour of the dominant group. This put the identity of subordinate populations at heightened risk and may have made them more resistant to foreign domination..

Cheers,

Sid.

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wm
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Re: After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by wm » 20 Dec 2021 14:43

In other words:
democracy-two-wolves-and-a-sheep-voting-on-whats-for-25164848.png
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Tanzania
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Re: After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by Tanzania » 20 Dec 2021 18:12

wm wrote:
20 Dec 2021 14:43
In other words:
democracy-two-wolves-and-a-sheep-voting-on-whats-for-25164848.png
. . . . . another point of view . . . . . about democracy.

If you don´t come to democracy . . . .png

Cheers Holger
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“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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wm
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Re: After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by wm » 20 Dec 2021 20:46

The problem with that is didn't work in Latin America, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria.
Even in 1945 Germany, it worked only partially.

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Re: After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by stevebecker » 24 Dec 2021 23:58

You guys are funny.

Having been sent to some of those countries to fight, I can say I never went to bring Demos to them.

Our media is going on about the loss of this in Afganistan, but I don't seam to worry to much.
Like after Vietnam we had the same media crap saying we lost the war, but that ignores what we were doing there.
We don't go to bring Demos, but to allow the people to bring there own, by taking away the influence of another power (commies) by showing them our own.
That they did want that, is not my or your failure, I am happy I gave them a chance to decide what they wanted.
WM you quote a number of countries, but not all didn't want Demos (Korea) my father fought there in the 50's.
I served in many countries with our Army, and with the UN, and most followed the path they wanted, not that brought to them by the Commies or by the Yanks. But took there own path.
That's a victory to me, to allow the people to make there own minds
Its not for us to judge there views, even if we don't like it.
S.B

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Re: After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by Sid Guttridge » 25 Dec 2021 08:42

Hi stevebecker,

You write, ".....to allow the people to make there own minds". Isn't that the very definition of Democracy? The word almost literally means that.

Cheers,

Sid

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Re: After 100 years the old Ottman/New Turkish empire Strikes back

Post by stevebecker » 25 Dec 2021 21:39

Sid
Yes but its theirs not ours, we didn't bring it to them, but allowed them to take it them selves.
That many countries did not take it, is on them, not us, who went there to fight for them.
At lest that's how I justify my involvement in the ones I was sent to.
S.B

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