Were all Europeans considered to be Aryans?

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Totenkomf
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Re: Were all Europeans considered to be Aryans?

#16

Post by Totenkomf » 01 Feb 2022, 20:21

George L Gregory wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 20:04
Totenkomf wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 13:02
So were the Austrias as Germans?
Yes, the Nazis considered the Austrians to be Germans. That was a view held by Nazis and non-Nazis in the early 20th century.
Yes well I knew that, just asked confirmation.
"Befehl ist Befehl"

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Re: Were all Europeans considered to be Aryans?

#17

Post by George L Gregory » 01 Feb 2022, 20:38

Totenkomf wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 20:21
George L Gregory wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 20:04
Totenkomf wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 13:02
So were the Austrias as Germans?
Yes, the Nazis considered the Austrians to be Germans. That was a view held by Nazis and non-Nazis in the early 20th century.
Yes well I knew that, just asked confirmation.
It wasn't a Nazi thing. Even people opposed to the Nazis accepted that the Austrians were Germans - including those who were against the Anschluss in 1938, but referred to Austria as a 'German' state. It's only after WW2 that the Austrians began to seriously develop a separate national identity which is why many Austrians would find it offensive to be called Germans these days.


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Totenkomf
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Re: Were all Europeans considered to be Aryans?

#18

Post by Totenkomf » 01 Feb 2022, 20:43

George L Gregory wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 20:38
Totenkomf wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 20:21
George L Gregory wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 20:04
Totenkomf wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 13:02
So were the Austrias as Germans?
Yes, the Nazis considered the Austrians to be Germans. That was a view held by Nazis and non-Nazis in the early 20th century.
Yes well I knew that, just asked confirmation.
It wasn't a Nazi thing. Even people opposed to the Nazis accepted that the Austrians were Germans - including those who were against the Anschluss in 1938, but referred to Austria as a 'German' state. It's only after WW2 that the Austrians began to seriously develop a separate national identity which is why many Austrians would find it offensive to be called Germans these days.
Well in that case they are a Germanic people as they would find it offensive in the days. Austria 'Victim' Myth still at large?.
"Befehl ist Befehl"

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Re: Were all Europeans considered to be Aryans?

#19

Post by George L Gregory » 01 Feb 2022, 21:00

Totenkomf wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 20:43
Well in that case they are a Germanic people as they would find it offensive in the days. Austria 'Victim' Myth still at large?.
Germanic isn't the same as German.

Yes, many Austrians want to forget what happened during the Nazi era and the fact that Adolf Hitler was an Austrian by birth.

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Re: Were all Europeans considered to be Aryans?

#20

Post by Totenkomf » 01 Feb 2022, 21:02

George L Gregory wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 21:00
Totenkomf wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 20:43
Well in that case they are a German people as they would find it offensive in the days. Austria 'Victim' Myth still at large?.
Germanic isn't the same as German.

Yes, many Austrians want to forget what happened during the Nazi era and the fact that Adolf Hitler was an Austrian by birth.
Okay well German or Austrian. Well They can forget it if they want.
"Befehl ist Befehl"

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Re: Were all Europeans considered to be Aryans?

#21

Post by George L Gregory » 01 Feb 2022, 23:17

Some Gypsies were also considered to be Aryans.

Heinrich Himmler was very interested in the origins of Gypsies.

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Re: Were all Europeans considered to be Aryans?

#22

Post by Totenkomf » 01 Feb 2022, 23:27

George L Gregory wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 23:17
Some Gypsies were also considered to be Aryans.

Heinrich Himmler was very interested in the origins of Gypsies.
That so, I have not heard about that, Well I guess Himmler was interested in many things..
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Re: Were all Europeans considered to be Aryans?

#23

Post by George L Gregory » 04 Feb 2022, 19:22

Totenkomf wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 23:27
George L Gregory wrote:
01 Feb 2022, 23:17
Some Gypsies were also considered to be Aryans.

Heinrich Himmler was very interested in the origins of Gypsies.
That so, I have not heard about that, Well I guess Himmler was interested in many things..
Nazi racial scientists thought that the original Gypsies were Aryans who had become non-Aryans over the centuries by mixing with non-Aryans and were thus for the most part considered a mixed-race group of people. Himmler wanted to select the 'pure Gypsies' and let them live their nomadic ways of life without any problems.

Although Gypsies were considered to be non-Aryans according to the Nuremberg Laws, there is no known case of a Gypsy being found guilty of race defilement (Rassenschande) for having sexual relations with a German.

Himmler wanted to solve the so-called Gypsy Question and to differentiate between settled and unsettled Gypsies and he wanted to create a Gypsy Law:
The aim of measures taken by the State to defend the homogeneity of the German nation must be the physical separation of Gypsydom from the German nation, the prevention of miscegenation, and finally, the regulation of the way of life of pure and part-Gypsies. The necessary legal foundation can only be created through a Gypsy Law, which prevents further intermingling of blood, and which regulates all the most pressing questions which go together with the existences of Gypsies in the living space of the German nation.

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Re: Were all Europeans considered to be Aryans?

#24

Post by harry2 » 06 Feb 2022, 00:17

George L Gregory wrote:
31 Jan 2022, 16:42
According to National Socialist racial doctrine, all European peoples belonged to the family of Aryans and were thus "fundamentally equivalent", that is, recognized as equal before the laws.
Diemut Majer, "Non-Germans" Under the Third Reich, page 63.

I thought Slavic people were considered to be non-Aryans.

I've also read that Adolf Hitler regarded the Italians to be racially mixed with blacks, the Czechs to be racially mixed with Mongoloids, etc.
..Himmler's Black Order 1923-45 by Lumsden has a section called Racial Elite..starting on page 64:
...Himmler says : '''History teaches us that only good blood, in particular the blood engaged in military activity, and above all, Nordic blood, is the leading creative element in every State''''''
....it talks about Rosenberg's racial ideas and also Richard Darre...Darre wrote a book about the Nordic race ....page 65:
'''''........to ensure the increase in Nordic peasant stock and their domination of Jews and Slavs.'''''
...Himmler wanted a '''spearhead'' of those elites .....''''to be the SS, an 'Orden nordischer Rasse', or Order of the Nordic Men'''
....the book uses the word ''Nordic'' many more times in that section per laws issued by Himmler
.....of course, as we have in today's racial issues, many people had many different and complex ideas on the subject

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Re: Were all Europeans considered to be Aryans?

#25

Post by George L Gregory » 06 Feb 2022, 22:57

harry2 wrote:
06 Feb 2022, 00:17
..Himmler's Black Order 1923-45 by Lumsden has a section called Racial Elite..starting on page 64:
...Himmler says : '''History teaches us that only good blood, in particular the blood engaged in military activity, and above all, Nordic blood, is the leading creative element in every State''''''
....it talks about Rosenberg's racial ideas and also Richard Darre...Darre wrote a book about the Nordic race ....page 65:
'''''........to ensure the increase in Nordic peasant stock and their domination of Jews and Slavs.'''''
...Himmler wanted a '''spearhead'' of those elites .....''''to be the SS, an 'Orden nordischer Rasse', or Order of the Nordic Men'''
....the book uses the word ''Nordic'' many more times in that section per laws issued by Himmler
.....of course, as we have in today's racial issues, many people had many different and complex ideas on the subject
Heinrich Himmler definitely viewed Slavs as racially inferior to Germans. There's evidence that Himmler saw himself as the reincarnation of Henry the Fowler (the first German King).

However, despite the thoughts by various Nazis that Slavs were racially inferior to Germans, there's no evidence that legally speaking the Slavs were classified as "non-Aryans".

Himmler made exceptions for Slavs - most notably Czechs and Poles - that were said to have a significant amount of Nordics amongst them and sought to Germanise them.

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Re: Were all Europeans considered to be Aryans?

#26

Post by George L Gregory » 08 Feb 2022, 16:46

There seems to have been some really bizarre contradictions in the Nazis' definition of 'Aryan' and the racial policies that they carried out during WW2.

Far-right people seem to think that the Nazis used the word 'Aryan' to mean 'white', but that is simply not the case - if 'white' meant 'European'. Indians, Iranians and Turks were considered to be Aryans.

The question of whether Hungarians were Aryans was a debate that lasted until the end of the Third Reich.
In October 1934, while evaluating the naturalization of a Hungarian citizen, the Interior Ministry informed the Saxon State Chancellery in Dresden that not all Hungarians were “non-Aryans.” According to the Interior Ministry, Hungarians are “tribally alien” ifremdstammig ) but not necessarily “blood alien” (fremdbliitig )—two additional terms adding to the definitional confusion. On the other hand, a 1934 brochure from the series Family, Race, Volk in the National Socialist State simply stated that the Magyars (which it did not define) were Aryans. Four years later, a major commentary to the Nuremberg Laws likewise baldly stated that “the overwhelming majority” of present day Finns and Hungarians were of Aryan blood. Yet the following year an article in the Journal for Racial Science, on the “Racial Diagnosis of the Hungarians,” noted that “opinions on [t] he racial condition of the Hungarians are still very divided.”
During the war, some Jews managed to escape prosecution and persecution by pretending to be ethnic Poles by obtaining so-called Aryan Papers. Bizarrely, the same Aryan Poles were subjected to being hanged if they were found guilty of having sexual relations with Aryan Germans; that is right, the Nazis punished an Aryan for having sexual relations with an Aryan!

The laws against the Poles, Russians and other Eastern Europeans were more draconian than those against Jews when it came to Rassenschande (race defilement). Jews were sent to concentration camps whereas Eastern Europeans were hanged and the Nazis were so strict about it that they even punished German girls who were aged 16 and 17 who were raped by Polish men for the crime too. The German public totally disapproved of the punishment, but it was carried out to make Germans fear Poles even more. The Nazis needed special courts to punish Jews with the death penalty for race defilement.

Germans found guilty of having sexual relations with non-Germans were excluded from the people's community.

Although in theory Slavs were considered to be Aryans, the Nazis published propaganda which stressed the racial superiority of the Germans who had a Nordic soul and the West being better than the East. Nazi propaganda after the invasion of the Soviet Union emphasised that the war was the old battle between the Germanic peoples and the Slavic peoples.

Russians were regarded to be mixed with Mongols and were regularly described as 'Asiatic' and the Red Army as 'Asiatic hordes' in Nazi propaganda. Heinrich Himmler outlined it in a speech:
It is a war of ideologies and struggle races. On one side stands National Socialism: ideology, founded on the values of our Germanic, Nordic blood. It is worth the world as we want to see: beautiful, orderly, fair, socially, a world that may be, still suffers some flaws, but overall a happy, beautiful world filled with culture, which is precisely Germany. On the other side stands the 180 millionth people, a mixture of races and peoples, whose names are unpronounceable, and whose physical nature is such that the only thing that they can do - is to shoot without pity or mercy. These animals, which are subjected to torture and ill-treatment of each prisoner from our side, which do not have medical care they captured our wounded, as do the decent men, you will see them for yourself. These people have joined a Jewish religion, one ideology, called Bolshevism, with the task of: having now Russian, half [located] in Asia, parts of Europe, crush Germany and the world. When you, my friends, are fighting in the East, you keep that same fight against the same subhumans, against the same inferior races that once appeared under the name of Huns, and later - 1,000 years ago during the time of King Henry and Otto I, - the name of the Hungarians, and later under the name of Tatars, and then they came again under the name of Genghis Khan and the Mongols. Today they are called Russian under the political banner of Bolshevism.
Only a few years earlier, Himmler in a pamphlet for the SS to read about anti-Bolshevism described the Russians as Aryans who needed assistance to get away from the horrors of Bolshevism.

The infamous brochure Der Untermensch (The Subhuman) contrasted the Germanic peoples as Aryans and the Jews and the Asiatics in the Soviet Union.

Despite Czechs being used as an example of Aryans in the world in the Ahnenpass, Adolf Hitler thought that they were descended from Mongoloid tribes and Reinhard Heydrich wrote, "The Czech is more dangerous and must be handled differently from Aryan peoples. Slavic man is very difficult to convince. And the consequence of this is that we must constantly keep our thumb on him so that he always remains bent, so that he will obey us and cooperate." Nevertheless, the Nazis did not ban sexual relations between Czechs and Germans and the Nazis thought that a large percentage of Czechs were in fact Aryans (Nordic) and hoped to Germanise them.

In 1940, a decree made any member of the Nazi Party or other Nazi organisation could not marry a woman who had at least two grandparents who were of Czech, Polish, or Magyar Volk groups without permission of the regional party official (Gauleiter). Farmers who were members of the Nazi Party were banned from marrying Poles and Czechs to preserve the purity of their own ethnic and racial foundations and to stop them from "marrying into German farmsteads".

Also, it is worth noting that Nazi newspapers after the introduction of the Nuremberg Laws declared that the racial laws were designed to help Germans and Jewish Germans live more peacefully amongst each other and to respect each Volk whereas the Polish Decrees and then later the Eastern Decrees were aimed to segregate Germans and Poles, Ukrainians, Russians, etc.

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