Despite 80+ years, this war comes across as in many respects organized/fought in a similar way as the Soviets fought WW2.
After the main offensive culminated, there emerged the Soviet practice of attacking everyday (attack as a form of defense and with pre-emptive/fixing/or recon goals) often with small, relatively improvised attacks.
Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?
Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?
I've read somewhere Russians don't want to serve in infantry and prefer more glamourous branches of the Army.
So the Army is as it is - low on infantry.
And this:
So the Army is as it is - low on infantry.
And this:
Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?
Russian Force Structure for Large Scale Combat Operations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DpW9yaSXiI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DpW9yaSXiI
Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?
More:
-despite the professionalization and small size (290K) of the Russian army there is still a focus on strategic and operational levels rather than tactical. A professional NCO corps, outside of Russian paratroops, is still de-emphasized with officers taking over a lot of the tasks of NCOs.
-Units all tooth, with little tail/organic logistics compared to US forces. The world's largest artillery and tank collection. Quantity over quality.
-continued reliance on conscripts to fill out units. Even elite units like Spetznaz and Air assault are partially filled up with them.
-Most weapons and equipment are largely from the Soviet era despite modernization. The infantrymen have a vintage 1990s appearance to them.
-Initial operation:
https://warontherocks.com/2022/03/the-w ... s-ukraine/
"One wonders if the Russian failure to employ their massive fires capacity to deliberately shape the battlefield over an extended period before the ground advance began will be marked by historians as a blunder. In the wargame, this constraint on fires was deliberate, based upon a strategy to compel a rapid Ukrainian surrender. An excellent case can be made that the Russians made similar calculations at the start of the current war. Putin, and those advisers who still have his ear, may have been convinced many Ukrainians would welcome them as liberators and the march to Kyiv would be an easy one. Thus, they have held back much of their overwhelming fires complex to avoid destroying significant amounts of infrastructure and killing too many of their Ukrainian “brothers.” This was the reasoning employed in the game, and most current reporting shows it was the thinking dominating the Kremlin."
-despite the professionalization and small size (290K) of the Russian army there is still a focus on strategic and operational levels rather than tactical. A professional NCO corps, outside of Russian paratroops, is still de-emphasized with officers taking over a lot of the tasks of NCOs.
-Units all tooth, with little tail/organic logistics compared to US forces. The world's largest artillery and tank collection. Quantity over quality.
-continued reliance on conscripts to fill out units. Even elite units like Spetznaz and Air assault are partially filled up with them.
-Most weapons and equipment are largely from the Soviet era despite modernization. The infantrymen have a vintage 1990s appearance to them.
-Initial operation:
https://warontherocks.com/2022/03/the-w ... s-ukraine/
"One wonders if the Russian failure to employ their massive fires capacity to deliberately shape the battlefield over an extended period before the ground advance began will be marked by historians as a blunder. In the wargame, this constraint on fires was deliberate, based upon a strategy to compel a rapid Ukrainian surrender. An excellent case can be made that the Russians made similar calculations at the start of the current war. Putin, and those advisers who still have his ear, may have been convinced many Ukrainians would welcome them as liberators and the march to Kyiv would be an easy one. Thus, they have held back much of their overwhelming fires complex to avoid destroying significant amounts of infrastructure and killing too many of their Ukrainian “brothers.” This was the reasoning employed in the game, and most current reporting shows it was the thinking dominating the Kremlin."
-
Yoozername
- Member
- Posts: 2619
- Joined: 25 Apr 2006, 16:58
- Location: Colorado
-
Yoozername
- Member
- Posts: 2619
- Joined: 25 Apr 2006, 16:58
- Location: Colorado
Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?
This concept is called murder. Who is supposed to be the Nazis?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OavheiatQwQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OavheiatQwQ
Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?
Russian Ministry of Defense commented regarding civilian deaths in Bucha https://t.me/rusvesnasu/16886:
-Russian army not responsible
-Claims about killings appeared only on the 4th day after the Ukrainian army entered Bucha
-Bodies are fake/staged
Actually the first claims about killed civilians in Bucha were made already midday 1st April (maximum 1 days after Ukrainian capture of Bucha): https://twitter.com/j_b_e__zorg/status/ ... 8950876168
2 April the videos and photos were already flooding in.
As a sidenote: When reading a Russian military forum (VIF2NE) one can see that Russian patriots there are troubled because their beloved country is loosing the propaganda war. An important factor in their opinion is the low quality of Russian propaganda workers. Indeed one can agree with them.
-Russian army not responsible
-Claims about killings appeared only on the 4th day after the Ukrainian army entered Bucha
-Bodies are fake/staged
Actually the first claims about killed civilians in Bucha were made already midday 1st April (maximum 1 days after Ukrainian capture of Bucha): https://twitter.com/j_b_e__zorg/status/ ... 8950876168
2 April the videos and photos were already flooding in.
As a sidenote: When reading a Russian military forum (VIF2NE) one can see that Russian patriots there are troubled because their beloved country is loosing the propaganda war. An important factor in their opinion is the low quality of Russian propaganda workers. Indeed one can agree with them.
Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?
An interview with an inhabitant of Bucha Vladislav Kozlovski (VK) has been published: https://vot-tak.tv/novosti/03-04-2022-r ... lej-buchi/
It is claimed:
-When Russians arrived 2 March VK together with other people was hiding in a bomb shelter. Until 7 March the Russians behaved well.
-7 March they started to search from the shelter men who had served in Donbass or Territorial Defense in the past. If discovered they were shot immediately.
-Also Nazi tattoos were searched but also those who had Ukrainian national symbolics (trident) were shot.
-About 8 persons were shot from the bomb shelter. The same victims are on this picture: https://twitter.com/j_b_e__zorg/status/ ... 8950876168
-VK was interrogated about Donbass veterans and nationalist living places. He was also beaten but released.
-The shooters were Russians but also Buryat looking soldiers.
-Later Chechens arrived. They started simply to shoot people in their living areas.
-Some Russian soldiers were acting polite (asking if they can stay a night in a house), some threw inhabitants out from their homes. VK was second time beaten in his home by a Russian soldier.
If the interview is true then it seems:
-Part of the killings were "simply" individual criminal acts
-At least in some Russian minds the killings were also a part of the "denazification" process. It remains to see if Russians employed similar tactics in other temporarily occupied areas. If not then Bucha was probably some local initiative. Such happenings are not at all surprising considering the loathing and hatred the masses of Russian patriots feel towards the supporters of the Ukrainian state. I suspect that the current Russian regime is capable of "denazification" which is much more lethal than the Stalinist Soviet concept was.
It is claimed:
-When Russians arrived 2 March VK together with other people was hiding in a bomb shelter. Until 7 March the Russians behaved well.
-7 March they started to search from the shelter men who had served in Donbass or Territorial Defense in the past. If discovered they were shot immediately.
-Also Nazi tattoos were searched but also those who had Ukrainian national symbolics (trident) were shot.
-About 8 persons were shot from the bomb shelter. The same victims are on this picture: https://twitter.com/j_b_e__zorg/status/ ... 8950876168
-VK was interrogated about Donbass veterans and nationalist living places. He was also beaten but released.
-The shooters were Russians but also Buryat looking soldiers.
-Later Chechens arrived. They started simply to shoot people in their living areas.
-Some Russian soldiers were acting polite (asking if they can stay a night in a house), some threw inhabitants out from their homes. VK was second time beaten in his home by a Russian soldier.
If the interview is true then it seems:
-Part of the killings were "simply" individual criminal acts
-At least in some Russian minds the killings were also a part of the "denazification" process. It remains to see if Russians employed similar tactics in other temporarily occupied areas. If not then Bucha was probably some local initiative. Such happenings are not at all surprising considering the loathing and hatred the masses of Russian patriots feel towards the supporters of the Ukrainian state. I suspect that the current Russian regime is capable of "denazification" which is much more lethal than the Stalinist Soviet concept was.
Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?
There are a lot of Russian police and paramilitary forces(FSB, OMON, the Chechens, etc.) in the Ukraine. The shadow army is bound to increase as the Russians consolidate their gains and free up the military from police and guard tasks.
Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd4OL8f ... e=emb_logo
One unit of Puma IFV cost as much as 15 T-72 or 30 BMP 2.
Given how easy IFVs go down in the "real war", this is the Russian cost-effectiveness again.
Still no appearance of premium/expensive Armata line of vehicles in the war.
One unit of Puma IFV cost as much as 15 T-72 or 30 BMP 2.
Given how easy IFVs go down in the "real war", this is the Russian cost-effectiveness again.
Still no appearance of premium/expensive Armata line of vehicles in the war.
Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?
The number of Chechens fighting for Russia appears to be reducing
Though so does the amount of Ukraine under Russian occupation
Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?
A bit more about "denazification".
Yesterday, RIA Novosti (a Russian state owned news agency) published a lengthy piece by Timofei Sergeitsev titled "What Russia should do with Ukraine".
Quoting a summary of it by Tadeusz Giczan https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/statu ... 5568856067
Original article: https://ria.ru/20220403/ukraina-1781469605.html
From there one can also read that Russia must completely cut herself from the West.
The tragedy is that this is not a random drivel by some lunatic (the author Timofei Sergeitsev is some kind "political scientist") but views which probably tens of millions Russian patriots share. The appearence of this article is hardly a coincidence but something which is released to shape public opinion for accepting future Russian actions against Ukraine (large part of the Ukrainian nation is guilty and deserves what it gets). WMDs possibly coming.
And somebody predicted that future fascists present themselves as anti-fascists...
As a sidenote: My impression about the Russian patriot's "thing" with Ukraine is that Russians see themselves as some kind of superior nobleman who were turned down by a woman (Ukraine) who instead started to be a prostitute offering her services to the degenerate West. Naturally the nobleman's feelings were deeply hurt and he started to despise the bi***. Russian patriots see no problem of Russia engaging in aggressive war against Ukraine because the b**** herself wanted it (provoked it) and deserves everything what is coming.
Yesterday, RIA Novosti (a Russian state owned news agency) published a lengthy piece by Timofei Sergeitsev titled "What Russia should do with Ukraine".
Quoting a summary of it by Tadeusz Giczan https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/statu ... 5568856067
Yesterday, RIA Novosti published a lengthy piece titled "What Russia should do with Ukraine", which explains in detail what Russia understands by denazification.
The special operation revealed that not only the political leadership in Ukraine is Nazi, but also the majority of the population. All Ukrainians who have taken up arms must be eliminated - because they are responsible for the genocide of the Russian people.
Ukrainians disguise their Nazism by calling it a "desire for independence" and a "European way of development". Ukraine doesn't have a Nazi party, a Führer or racial laws, but because of its flexibility, Ukrainian Nazism is far more dangerous to the world than Hitler's Nazism .
Denazification means de-Ukrainianisation. Ukrainians are an artificial anti-Russian construct. They should no longer have a national identity. Denazification of Ukraine also means its inevitable de-Europeanisation.
Ukraine's political elite must be eliminated as it cannot be re-educated. Ordinary Ukrainians must experience all the horrors of war and absorb the experience as a historical lesson and atonement for their guilt.
The liberated and denazified territory of the Ukrainian state should no longer be called Ukraine. Denazification should last at least one generation - 25 years. Then the author goes on to detail exactly what needs to be done.
Original article: https://ria.ru/20220403/ukraina-1781469605.html
From there one can also read that Russia must completely cut herself from the West.
The tragedy is that this is not a random drivel by some lunatic (the author Timofei Sergeitsev is some kind "political scientist") but views which probably tens of millions Russian patriots share. The appearence of this article is hardly a coincidence but something which is released to shape public opinion for accepting future Russian actions against Ukraine (large part of the Ukrainian nation is guilty and deserves what it gets). WMDs possibly coming.
And somebody predicted that future fascists present themselves as anti-fascists...
As a sidenote: My impression about the Russian patriot's "thing" with Ukraine is that Russians see themselves as some kind of superior nobleman who were turned down by a woman (Ukraine) who instead started to be a prostitute offering her services to the degenerate West. Naturally the nobleman's feelings were deeply hurt and he started to despise the bi***. Russian patriots see no problem of Russia engaging in aggressive war against Ukraine because the b**** herself wanted it (provoked it) and deserves everything what is coming.
Last edited by Reigo2 on 04 Apr 2022, 15:24, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?
They sent a second wave of "10,000" Chechens March 30th.
Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?
Can you start another thread about war crimes in the Ukraine? seems more appropriate than putting that in this thread.
Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?
Well, all this Nazi-stuff and denazification is basically a concept based on the Soviet era. But i understand you want military concepts.