Estonians, Finns and Hungarians in Nazi propaganda

[Fliegende Untertasse]

to get back on topic

How were the peoples of the Uralic languages, namely the Estonians, Finns and Hungarians depicted in Nazi propaganda?

"The Germans and the Finns must never forget that they once had common forefathers"
- Heinrich Himmler Oct. 13. 1935
Himmlers signed greeting in Yrjö von Grönhagens notebook.

Von Grönhagen was a Finnish sociology student adventurer, who got recruited to the Ahnenerbe. He was the appointed by Himmler as head of department of the Indo-European-Finnish cultural studies.
Later Wüst demoted him to a researcher as von Grönhagen was a graduate student and thus unqualified for leadership position.

Recommented source material :
Heather Pringle "The Master Plan. Himmler's Scholars and the Holocaust", 2006
Yrjö von Grönhagen "Himmlerin Salaseura" , 1948 ( reprint 2014)

Plenty of Estonians, Finns and Hungarians were/are Nordic in appearance.

As far as "Nordic" goes, von Grönhagen refers to anecdotal conversations with his German aquaintances noting that at least some Germans seemed to find the whole concept of Nordicism problematic and alien. It was something that they felt was fed to them by Alfred Rosenberg , an Estonian.

[George L Gregory]

to get back on topic

How were the peoples of the Uralic languages, namely the Estonians, Finns and Hungarians depicted in Nazi propaganda?

"The Germans and the Finns must never forget that they once had common forefathers"
- Heinrich Himmler Oct. 13. 1935
Himmlers signed greeting in Yrjö von Grönhagens notebook.

Von Grönhagen was a Finnish sociology student adventurer, who got recruited to the Ahnenerbe. He was the appointed by Himmler as head of department of the Indo-European-Finnish cultural studies.
Later Wüst demoted him to a researcher as von Grönhagen was a graduate student and thus unqualified for leadership position.

Recommented source material :
Heather Pringle "The Master Plan. Himmler's Scholars and the Holocaust", 2006
Yrjö von Grönhagen "Himmlerin Salaseura" , 1948 ( reprint 2014)

Plenty of Estonians, Finns and Hungarians were/are Nordic in appearance.

As far as "Nordic" goes, von Grönhagen refers to anecdotal conversations with his German aquaintances noting that at least some Germans seemed to find the whole concept of Nordicism problematic and alien. It was something that they felt was fed to them by Alfred Rosenberg , an Estonian.

What is the source for the quote?

Indeed, many Nazis e.g. Joseph Goebbels, mocked the Nordic racial superiority idea.

[Topspeed]

No one posted that the Mongol Empire included Finland.

Again, why do you keep making things up and posting strawman arguments?

Because you cannot write correctly the word FINNO-UGRIC.

main-qimg-c20c444698a95615f968474f12abecaf-lq.jpg (105.81 KiB) Viewed 924 times

[George L Gregory]

No one posted that the Mongol Empire included Finland.

Again, why do you keep making things up and posting strawman arguments?

Because you cannot write correctly the word FINNO-UGRIC.

main-qimg-c20c444698a95615f968474f12abecaf-lq.jpg

You just keep repeating yourself so you can enjoy ranting to yourself.

What language family does the Finnish language belong to precisely?

[gebhk]

Hi Fliegende Untertasse

"The Germans and the Finns must never forget that they once had common forefathers"

Nice find that is actually on topic. This is, of course, one of the great propaganda tropes, all the more potent because it is objectively true. All humanity has a comnmon forefather. For that matter, the Germans, the Finns and everyone else also have a common forefather with the slug (with whom we share 70% of our DNA), bananas (50%), the amoeba and the lowly cabbage. It is just a matter of how far back you want to go to get that warm fuzzy feeling of kinship, no doubt lost as soon as it becomes politically inexpedient

[Seppo Koivisto]

Indo-Germanic-Finnish cultural relations (Pflegstätte für indogermanisch-finnische Kulturbeziehung) was one of the five research departments when Ahnenerbe was started in 1935.
https://www.bundesarchiv.de/DE/Content/ ... elite.html

[George L Gregory]

@Topspeed

I’m still waiting for you to answer my simple question.

If Hungarians don’t speak a Uralic language, what branch of languages does Hungarian belong to exactly?

Don’t forget to provide sources for any claim you post.

[Topspeed]

My answer seems to have disappeared here.

Censorship is too radical.

Hint...look at the picture above.

[George L Gregory]

My answer seems to have disappeared here.

Censorship is too radical.

Hint...look at the picture above.

What a pathetic excuse and an absolute load of claptrap.

Don’t be evasive and avoid the question.

Try answering it.

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Topspeed,

You have been asked a perfectly reasonable question, so why aren't you answering GLG?

I'll tell you why: George L. Gregory is right and you are wrong.

The Finnish, Estonian and Hungarian languages are all related and are a distinctive linguistic group within Europe.

I am not sure why you are contesting something that is a generally agreed fact amoing linguists without offering any counter evidence whatsoever.

Cheers,

Sid.

[David Thompson]

Topspeed -- From the forum rules:

5. Back up your claims
We wish the forum to maintain a high standard. While posting on the forum isn't on the same level as writing an academic text, we want to maintain a balanced level of scholarship.

When you include a quote, cite the source. Include enough information to allow other members to find the source themselves. As a minimum, include the author, title/issue, and page number (for monographs and serials) or a link to the specific article (for websites).
When you cite a source, the source must be of sufficiently high quality to substantiate the nature of the claim. Do not cite racist or supremacist websites, unsourced secondary articles, opinion pieces and reviews (other than as evidence of the opinion or review itself), or similar sources.
If another member challenge one of your claims, you must cite a source for your claim.
If you make a claim that is obviously controversial, you should cite a source immediately.
Do not post your opinion without supporting it with facts or context.

app.php/rules

[Topspeed]

to get back on topic

How were the peoples of the Uralic languages, namely the Estonians, Finns and Hungarians depicted in Nazi propaganda?

"The Germans and the Finns must never forget that they once had common forefathers"
- Heinrich Himmler Oct. 13. 1935
Himmlers signed greeting in Yrjö von Grönhagens notebook.

Von Grönhagen was a Finnish sociology student adventurer, who got recruited to the Ahnenerbe. He was the appointed by Himmler as head of department of the Indo-European-Finnish cultural studies.
Later Wüst demoted him to a researcher as von Grönhagen was a graduate student and thus unqualified for leadership position.

Recommented source material :
Heather Pringle "The Master Plan. Himmler's Scholars and the Holocaust", 2006
Yrjö von Grönhagen "Himmlerin Salaseura" , 1948 ( reprint 2014)

Plenty of Estonians, Finns and Hungarians were/are Nordic in appearance.

As far as "Nordic" goes, von Grönhagen refers to anecdotal conversations with his German aquaintances noting that at least some Germans seemed to find the whole concept of Nordicism problematic and alien. It was something that they felt was fed to them by Alfred Rosenberg , an Estonian.

What is the source for the quote?

Indeed, many Nazis e.g. Joseph Goebbels, mocked the Nordic racial superiority idea.

Source for this ?

[Topspeed]

Topspeed -- From the forum rules:

5. Back up your claims
We wish the forum to maintain a high standard. While posting on the forum isn't on the same level as writing an academic text, we want to maintain a balanced level of scholarship.

When you include a quote, cite the source. Include enough information to allow other members to find the source themselves. As a minimum, include the author, title/issue, and page number (for monographs and serials) or a link to the specific article (for websites).
When you cite a source, the source must be of sufficiently high quality to substantiate the nature of the claim. Do not cite racist or supremacist websites, unsourced secondary articles, opinion pieces and reviews (other than as evidence of the opinion or review itself), or similar sources.
If another member challenge one of your claims, you must cite a source for your claim.
If you make a claim that is obviously controversial, you should cite a source immediately.
Do not post your opinion without supporting it with facts or context.

app.php/rules

Finnish is a Finno-Ugric language..there is no doubt about it.

https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomalais ... set_kielet

Liivi and Vepsä are practically gone to extinct.

[henryk]

Thank you for the interesting map and reference. For the same in English:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_languages
To see some information on each ethnicity, click on the map name in the list in wiki. Example: Livonians

The Livonians, or Livs (Livonian: līvlizt; Estonian: liivlased; Latvian: līvi, lībieši), are a Balto-Finnic people indigenous to northern Latvia and southwestern Estonia. Livonians historically spoke Livonian, a Uralic language closely related to Estonian and Finnish. The last person to have learned and spoken Livonian as a mother tongue, Grizelda Kristiņa, died in 2013, making Livonian extinct.[5] As of 2010, there were approximately 30 people who had learned it as a second language.

Historical, social and economic factors, together with an ethnically dispersed population, have resulted in the decline of the Livonian population, with only a small group surviving in the 21st century. In 2011, there were 250 people who claimed Livonian ethnicity in Latvia.[2]

[George L Gregory]

Source for this ?

Why should I give you the time of day?

Anyway, someone else answered that question a while ago.

viewtopic.php?t=257759&start=15#p2345012

viewtopic.php?p=2385051#p2389031