wm wrote: ↑03 Apr 2022, 22:34
NickA wrote: ↑03 Apr 2022, 19:28
Wikipedia is simply terrible for nationalist vandalising. But its a bit unlikely that German nationalists (seeking to justify WW2) are doing this and winning edit wars against Polish nationalists. Jimbo Wales's hand-picked administrators and the Arbitration Committee would come down on them like a ton of bricks.
I didn't say it was a German. Thinking about it it could have been an enthusiastic person with superficial knowledge of history, thinking in pure good vs evil terms.
Wikipedia articles are generally "owned" by nationalists (though not often those who started the article for some reason). Anyone making changes that tend to explain/exonerate the perpetrators of WW2 (or any nationalist narrative out of fashion) will be followed, obstructed, insulted and banned. The most outrageous falsifiers are protected by the admins until the hated narrative is driven off.
There are some terrible examples. Look up the "Judea and Samaria" bitch fight. The protestors (claiming that the phrase was, at least in 2008/2009, used almost exclusively by settlers, not even most Israelis). Hence, it was a toponym that should not be used in the "neutral voice" of Wikipedia articles. The Arbitration Committee pondered for around a year on the wholly irrelevant arguments and personal invective thrown at the objecting editors, who did a sterling job fielding the objections and trying not to respond to the insults. The ArbCom eventually accepted the obvious - but declared that they would restrict 5 of the editors trying to protect the Encyclopaedia and 4 of the most racist and unpleasant of the "Judea and Samaria" brigade (two of whom shortly proved to be sock-puppets of editors previously banned for highly disruptive and anti-academic contributions!) The good editors were driven off and the settler language was never removed. Its been accepted as mainstream.
wm wrote: ↑03 Apr 2022, 22:34
The point is it wasn't said and actually it was highly out of character of the Polish leaders (and I think most of European too). "That man is a killer" was simply inconceivable at that time.
Examine the deliberate mis-translations of Milosevic's speech and what Ahmadinejad said. Mistranslation is a huge problem. Nevertheless, the "historians" at the Wiki (guaranteed not to be loyal to Nazi Germany) believe their picture shows "Rydz-Śmigły declaring Hitler an enemy of the state, Kraków, 6 August 1939". If there's a mis-translation here its likely to favour Poland. His listeners most likely heard something along the lines that "Poland wants war".
wm wrote: ↑03 Apr 2022, 22:34
And why is it important if "the Poles advanced East before the Bolsheviks advanced West"? Especially since they faced criminally illegal rebellion led by fanatical and highly unpredictable leaders. And anyway, the Bolsheviks repudiated the partition treaties so the lands naturally reverted to Poland. On their own territory, the Poles could have advanced in any direction they wanted.
I was hoping Sid Guttridge (is he still here?) would expand my understanding of what he wrote on 12 May 2020 "And, if I am not mistaken, in 1920 the Poles advanced East before the Bolsheviks advanced West. Cheers, Sid."
Now, the land to the East of Warsaw cannot have reverted to Poland (which had not been in existence for 125 years - the land had been Russian for that length of time). The Bolsheviks seized it again, as you say - did they proceed to ethnically cleanse Polish people out of there pushing them into former Germany (Bromberg et al)?
In which case, those Polish-speakers will have ended up in the German-speaking West of the new Poland after 1919 (land that hadn't even been Poland in 1795) and fought the German-speakers there, ethnically cleansing them into the rump Germany left by Versailles.
What we think we know (from the Wiki) is that there was a steep fall in German-speakers in Bromberg between 1919 and 1929, and again running after 1936. The same was happening to the German-speakers of Danzig (a very important commercial centre of the Hanseatic League since 1356).
Now the topic of this thread is "POLAND WANTED WAR WITH GERMANY" - and it appears that Poland was indeed causing refugee troubles for Germany and, allegedly, causing serious border and cross-border problems.
I'd like to know what books and papers there are on it. For the moment I only really know that Germans appeared to believe that Poland was behaving like some kind of very bad neighbour and Bullit and Kennedy were visiting there.