Herms Niel & Reichsmusikzug des RAD

Discussions on the music in the Third Reich. Hosted by Ivan Ž.
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Re:

Post by Ivan Ž. » 19 Dec 2021 09:03

An excellent find, Mike! I'm very familiar with the Fortepan website and I was pleasantly surprised to see they got some Niel-photos now as well.

Another one of theirs, from the same donor (Mihályi Balázs):
fortepan_217799.jpg
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Re:

Post by Ivan Ž. » 19 Dec 2021 09:51

Speaking of Hungary (Fortepan is a Hungarian project), here's a photo and an interview from the Hungarian magazine Rádióélet, 2 October 1942, taken when Niel performed in Budapest. They mention that (among other compositions) he played his "Potsdamer Fanfare" and "Erika", and the Hungarian "Rákóczi-induló" (this march is also one of the last known compositions that Niel commercially recorded during the Third Reich, in 1943, for the "Grammophon" company; he also recorded Hungarian "Bartóffy-induló" and "Honvéd ejtöernyös induló" at the time). What is particularly interesting in the interview is that Niel this time changed (or, let's say - simplified) his "Erika" song history, stating that it was "born on a bright Sunday afternoon, among the grenadiers strolling with their girls" (it does sound better than the truth - that he was taking his dog for walkies).

Niel Radioelet 1942-10-02.jpg
Az »Erika« szerzője Budapesten

A hűvös őszi szélben vidáman szól a rezesbanda a Rákóczi-úton. Ismerős ütemek hangzanak felénk, csak a zenekar egyenruhájáról nem tudjuk első pillantásra, hogy hol is láttuk már. Mikor azután közelebb jönnek a fiúk, meglátjuk a földszínű zubbony ujján az ásójelvényt: erről pedig már nálunk is tudják, hogy ez a Német Birodalom egyik legnagyobb szervezetének, a Birodalmi Munkaszolgálatnak jelvénye. A zenekar jelenleg magyarországi hangversenykörúton van, nálunk is jól ismert nevű karmesterének Herms Nielnek vezetésével.

A budapesti közönségnek az egyik filmszínház bemutatóján mutatkozott be a zenekar. Mikor a szétnyíló függöny mögött láthatóvá vált a hatalmas 65 tagú zenekar, percekig tartó taps fogadta. Pompás látvány volt, amikor az első számként felhangzó »Potsdami fanfárok« című indulónál az első sorban álló harsonások festői zászlókkal és rojtokkal díszített harsonáikat ütemesen fölemelték és leengedték. Következő számként a jól ismert »Erika« csendült fel, melynél a zenekar egy része a szöveget énekelte. A közönség lelkesedése azonban akkor ért a forrpontra, amikor a Rákóczi-induló szólalt meg. A német zenekar olyan tűzzel és dobbanó ritmussal játszotta, hogy az akármelyik hazai együttesnek is becsületére vált volna.
A hangverseny után alig tudjuk megtalálni Niel professzort. Mikor előkerül, még mindig boldogan sugárzik a sikertől.
– A fiaimról gondoskodtam csak hamar – mondja kérdésünkre és valóban megható, milyen mindenre kiterjedő figyelemmel gondol a zenekar minden egyes tagjára. Mondják is az emberek, hogy mindenütt, ahová csak eljutnak, kitűnő dolguk van és azt is tudják, hogy ezt a »professzornak« köszönhetik.
Herms Niel mindig jókedvű, mosolygós is tréfás ember. Nem is látni a környezetében soha mást, mint nevető arcokat. Lelkesen mesél a győri fogadtatásról és első budapesti benyomásairól.
– Zenekarommal úgyszólván egész Európát bejártuk már Bulgáriától Dél-Franciaországig és Norvégiától Spanyolországig, de Budapest sok újat és szépet nyújt nekünk. Egy ilyen helyen lenne jó egyszer egy kicsit pihenni, mert elhiheti, hogy a háromszázadik induló után erre is kezdek gondolni. Ennyinek a zenéjét írtam meg ugyanis 1939 óta. Ebből majdnem a felének a szövegét is magam írtam. Most azután abbahagyom a komponálást és átadom a helyemet az – utánzóimnak..., mert ilyenek máris nagy számban jelentkeznek.
– Még arra vagyunk kíváncsiak, hogyan születik meg egy-egy indulója?
– Nagyon egyszerűen – feleli. – Magam is öreg katona vagyok és jól tudom, mi kell egy harcos szívének-lelkének. A katonaélet derűs epizódjai, a bajtársak közötti csipkelődés, vagy néha egy-egy tábortűz mellett felcsendülő régi népdal azok a források, amikből leginkább merítek. Az »Erika« is így született meg egy verőfényes vasárnap délután, a babájukkal sétálgató gránátosok között.

Elérkezett a második hangverseny ideje. Herms Niel professzor széles mozdulattal búcsúzik és pár pillanat múlva ott áll már zenekara előtt, vonásai megkeményednek és minden szem reá szegeződik... A mai németség minden férfias fegyelme, bajtársiassága és győzni akarása benne dübörög a hangszerekben, amikor újra felcsendül a zene.
Source: https://kuruc.info/r/8/85991/#ixzz1gMj10DRU
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Re:

Post by Ivan Ž. » 19 Dec 2021 11:11

Ivan Ž. wrote:
19 Dec 2021 09:51
[...] "Rákóczi-induló" (this march is also one of the last known compositions that Niel commercially recorded during the Third Reich, in 1943, for the "Grammophon" company; he also recorded Hungarian "Bartóffy-induló" and "Honvéd ejtöernyös induló" at the time).
... and the Hungarians covered (at least) two of Niel's compositions - his greatest hits, "Matrosenlied" (as "Búcsút intünk") and "Erika" (as "Rózsika").

Here are both pieces (performed by the Royal Hungarian Air Force Band, led by Károly Doroszlay, and a "Patria" male chorus):




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Re:

Post by Sid Guttridge » 19 Dec 2021 14:43

Hi Ivan Ž.,

I have been looking at your thread here on and off for about 15 years, without being in a position to contribute usefully.

However, sometimes it is possible to recognize an excellent piece of work without having any expertise oneself.

I would like to congratulate you for being so persistent in pursuing this project to such a high standard and sharing the results with us over so many years.

Despite the specialized nature of its subject, you have produced one of the most impressive threads on AHF ever.

In appreciation,

Sid.

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Re:

Post by Ivan Ž. » 19 Dec 2021 18:08

Thank you very much for the kind words, Sid, and my thanks goes to everyone else contributing to the thread (kind comments included ;) ).

Cheers,
Ivan

reichmusik
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Das Afrikakorps

Post by reichmusik » 23 May 2022 06:26

https://archive.org/details/afrika_202111


Good day. I am here once again, to ask for help in the lyrics to this beautful song (Das Afrikakorps). It has become one of my favourites, unfortunately my German isn't that great, I know some of it, and after months of web searches hasn't done anything. So any help would be greatly appreciated. Special thanks to Musik Damals for his uploads! He has a great collection and been following his uploads in the days before Youtube crack down!

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Re: Das Afrikakorps

Post by Ivan Ž. » 23 May 2022 10:16

Note that the sound file originates from the collection of our member Alexander B., who shared it online. User Musik Damals just copied and re-uploaded Alexander's file, without crediting the actual record owner - as he did many times before (I wish he'd finally stop doing that).

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Herms Niel's composition for Operation "Barbarossa"

Post by D-General » 08 Jul 2022 07:56

Greetings everyone I hope you're all having a nice day

I recently stumbled upon a documentary featuring the well-known composer Norbert Schultze. In one part of the documentary, he stated that he responded to a request by Dr. Goebbels for composers to make a song that can be used for Operation "Barbarossa". As we all know, Schultze's composition "Vorwärts nach Osten! (Das Lied vom Feldzug im Osten)" was selected.

However, when recalling the moment he submitted his composition, he noted that Herms Niel came into Goebbels' office before him. Herms Niel was supposedely red-faced and frustrated as soon as he walked out of the office since his composition was essentially deemed not good enough.

By some chance, does anyone know what song Herms Niel submitted in this event? I've always been curious about it.

Attached below is the said documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpP_SOfxJZ8&t=3134s (52:14)

Thank you very much and hve a nice day
"Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning."(Erwin Rommel)

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Re: Herms Niel's composition for Operation "Barbarossa"

Post by GregSingh » 08 Jul 2022 10:22

does anyone know what song Herms Niel submitted in this event?
Both Niel and Schultze composed different music to the same lyrics.
So the question is if Niel's notes to Das Lied vom Feldzug im Osten survived ?
Just by searching this topic, it seems Niel's version was never recorded?
You can get pretty damn far in life by just saying what you're going to do and then doing it.

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Re: Herms Niel's composition for Operation "Barbarossa"

Post by Ivan Ž. » 08 Jul 2022 10:38

Hello, D-General (and Greg)

Most of this was mentioned before, but here it is again: both old Niel and young Schultze, being the leading German war campaign composers at the time (Schultze was actually still becoming one), were assigned to compose music for the new war campaign song, for the Soviet Union. The song was written by Heinrich Anacker, Hans Tieszler and Hans-Wilhelm Kulenkampff, edited by Joseph Goebbels himself and (eventually) entitled "Vorwärts nach Osten!". As Schultze stated, Goebbels told Niel to make some changes in his initial score (why Niel was red-faced afterwards is unknown, it depends on what for and in what tone he was criticised) and he told the same to Schultze, making the changes himself (he changed the ending of the refrain; he also requested for Liszt's "Les préludes" fanfare motif to be included in the piece). After making the changes in their scores, they made the recordings and waited for Goebbels' decision on which composition is better. As Schultze stated, he found out about the verdict not from Goebbels but through radio, when they broadcasted his version of the song.

So, both versions were recorded (see also Prieberg, pp. 6391-6392), for the radio, but it's unknown whether Niel's version survived in any form.

Cheers,
Ivan

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Re: Herms Niel's composition for Operation "Barbarossa"

Post by D-General » 09 Jul 2022 09:19

Thank you for clearing this up Ivan, I appreciate the additional information and inferences
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Re: Die tolle Kompanie

Post by Ivan Ž. » 17 Jul 2022 11:55

Claymore wrote:
07 May 2007 09:43
Image
A recent post of mine, explaining the difference between commercial and radio recordings of war propaganda songs (how the former were usually sang by small vocal groups, while the latter were typically more powerful, featuring large male opera choirs), reminded me of the two recordings of this seldom-known song of Niel's, as a good example.

This is the commercial recording of the song, with vocals by a male quartet (Die vier lustigen Jungens):
https://archive.org/details/die-tolle

Now play the radio recording, and hear the difference (sadly, the performers weren't credited, but it's clearly a large choir or choirs):
https://archive.org/details/die-tolle-kompagnie_202112

Note: Both of these records are quite rare, particularly the second (radio) one; I actually remember that (eBay) sale, and I can say that it was extremely expensive (hundreds of euros). So, dear users, whenever you come across someone sharing a rare radio record (which does not happen too often), remember to appreciate it, for that person more than likely spent a lot of money for it. (So - thanks for sharing to the uploader!)

Cheers,
Ivan

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Tschingta, tschingta - Bummtara!

Post by slavprussiaottomanfinlandUSUK » 29 Sep 2022 00:20

Hello,

Now, is it possible to have the details and performer for this of "Tschingta, tschingta - Bummtara?" The story is the same as last time, found it online with the rest of the uncredited lot. While I was looking, I decided I should try and see if there were any CDs that had a similar length, which sometimes can make the whole process a bit easier. I found one by Tomahawk which worked. I was able to verify that my version is indeed on that CD because someone put it on the Internet Archive.

Here is the CD on discogs: https://www.discogs.com/release/8539733 ... ird-Reich-

Edit: Are there any instrumental versions of this song? Personally, I am not a big fan of the singing of this song. Carl Woitschach's version added the bass with the singing and had the best instrumental parts in my opinion.

Thank you,
Slav

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Re: Tschingta, tschingta - Bummtara!

Post by Ivan Ž. » 29 Sep 2022 09:44

Hello, Slav

It's is the Electrola recording; see for example: viewtopic.php?f=81&t=120685&start=105#p2423974
Ivan Ž. wrote:
15 Aug 2022 15:08
Tschingta, tschingta - Bummtara! [Marschlied]
Composer/Lyricist: Herms Niel
Arranger: Arno Hildebrand
Vocal Group: Männerchor
Instrumental Group: Blasorchester
Conductor: Bruno Seidler-Winkler
Recording Date: 1938
Recording Location: Berlin
Record Company: Electrola GmbH, Berlin
The reverse side on the original record was "Was nützt mir heute ein schönes Mädel" by Niel's old associate Ailbout, which can be found on the same CD set (vol. 6, track 14). Tomahawk also released it on their "Wunschkonzert" set (scam): viewtopic.php?f=81&t=120685&start=15#p1061022
Ivan Ž. wrote:
22 May 2007 11:39
Was nützt mir heute ein schönes Mädel [Marsch]
Composer: Hans Ailbout
Lyricist: Charly
Trio Melody: ’s ist alles dunkel/ Composer: Anonym
Vocal Group: Männerchor
Instrumental Group: Blasorchester
Conductor: Bruno Seidler-Winkler
Recording Date: 1938
Recording Location: Berlin
Record Company: Electrola GmbH, Berlin
No instrumental versions of "Tschingta, tschingta - Bummtara!" are known to me.

Cheers,
Ivan

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Re: Tschingta, tschingta - Bummtara!

Post by slavprussiaottomanfinlandUSUK » 29 Sep 2022 16:16

Thanks, Ivan

Have a good one,
Slav

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