[British] war criminals [?]

[Michael Miller]

Your grandfather is not just a war criminal, he is something far worse.

After 1945, the grandfather was classified as a "follower" by the British military administration in northern Germany.

His last rank was a Major, a desk soldier, a bureaucrat, but fate took the man to other duties.

Do you really think it would have pleased the man to order such a thing, no.
It's easy for us today to condemn something, whoever refused back then was faced with his own firing squad in a few minutes...


Hans

"... whoever refused back then was faced with his own firing squad in a few minutes..."

Not true.

40+ years of reading on the topic and I've yet to see a single example of a German soldier or policeman being executed for refusal to participate in executions.

~ Mike

[CogCalgary]

Your grandfather is not just a war criminal, he is something far worse.

After 1945, the grandfather was classified as a "follower" by the British military administration in northern Germany.

His last rank was a Major, a desk soldier, a bureaucrat, but fate took the man to other duties.

Do you really think it would have pleased the man to order such a thing, no.
It's easy for us today to condemn something, whoever refused back then was faced with his own firing squad in a few minutes...


Hans

"... whoever refused back then was faced with his own firing squad in a few minutes..."

Not true.

40+ years of reading on the topic and I've yet to see a single example of a German soldier or policeman being executed for refusal to participate in executions.

~ Mike

Why would anybody talk about this in some situations?Partisan work?Next soldiers would be looking at you fearing that you would talk?Lots of ways to get rid of dissenters.Simply assigning a soldier to the most dangerous tasks sends a message.Who will flush the partisans out of the cave?

[Michael Miller]

Not entirely clear what you're saying here, but I repeat: I've yet to see a single example of a German soldier or policeman being executed for refusal to participate in executions.

~ Mike

[CogCalgary]

Partisan work.Yugoslavia.Hunter battalions.Or smaller units.Some spared children.Some apparently did not around Drvar.Never heard of an execution either but assigning soldiers to enter caves will likely have the same result in short order.

[Michael Miller]

Partisan work.Yugoslavia.Hunter battalions.Or smaller units.Some spared children.Some apparently did not around Drvar.Never heard of an execution either but assigning soldiers to enter caves will likely have the same result in short order.

That's still not a justification for mass killing of unarmed civilians.

~ Mike

[CogCalgary]

Partisan work.Yugoslavia.Hunter battalions.Or smaller units.Some spared children.Some apparently did not around Drvar.Never heard of an execution either but assigning soldiers to enter caves will likely have the same result in short order.

That's still not a justification for mass killing of unarmed civilians.

~ Mike

No.What would you do?You could also try to get rid of your commanding officer with some kind of training accident I suppose.Which has happened according to my
source.Mortar training accident.
"No survivors" was the command and that is all I will say about it.They were getting used like toilet paper.And they did try to kill him in a cave exploding some kind of gas at the entrance.The man ran out the other end of the cave.

[gebhk]

Ooh how we like to judge the behaviour of people in extreme situations from the comfort of our armchairs.

No matter, how about some actual examples of British servicemen being convicted of war crimes, which I seem to remember vaguely was the question asked?

[Hans1906]

Ooh how we like to judge the behaviour of people in extreme situations from the comfort of our armchairs.

Hi gebhk,

You got it straight to the point, ordinary people and war crimes, unimaginable, but that's how it was.

It was war, all rules no longer existed.

We're sitting in front of our computer, the men were in a war of annihilation, that was and is the small difference.


Hans

[Puck]

It was war, all rules no longer existed.

@Hans
Another justification?
Also at this time existed beside the Geneva Convention at least moral rules!
So please stop this "Stammtisch-Niveau" ...

[Michael Miller]

"It was war, all rules no longer existed."


There most certainly were and are rules, absurd as that may seem at times, and a recognition of that fact is the reason there were war crimes trials and subsequent conventions related to treatment of POWs, to genocide, etc.

To flatly conclude, "it was war, all rules no longer existed" is to endorse the actions of the Einsatzgruppen, among countless other reprehensible crimes.

~ Mike

[Hans1906]

Whatever you answer, as a German you are always the villain, the mass murderer, the evil Nazi.

Everyone wore a black uniform, all were members of the Leibstandarte, and all served in German concentration camps to the last.

That's exactly what people think of us, and it's not a new topic.


Hans

[Michael Miller]

That response does not address my point. You said there are no rules in war, a claim that has nothing to do with nationalities, and it is flat-out wrong on its face.

Those of us who seriously research this history place no "Mark of Cain" on the heads of all Germans, living or dead. Your claims that such blanket indictments are occurring here are far off the mark.

~ Mike

[Terry Duncan]

Topic locked until David Thompson has time to review the posts here. Few posts actually deal with any specifics relating to the title.

Terry