Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

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Aida1
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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#136

Post by Aida1 » 04 Aug 2022, 21:07

ljadw wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 12:59
Aida1 wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 10:47
ljadw wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 07:29
And the Bay of Pigs ?
Not an invasion by USA forces.
These forces were armed by the US and came from the US .
Whis is not the same thing as an invasion by US forces.

ljadw
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Posts: 15583
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#137

Post by ljadw » 04 Aug 2022, 21:25

Aida1 wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 21:02
ljadw wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 06:34
LineDoggie wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 01:09
ljadw wrote:
03 Aug 2022, 13:23

That's why the CIA organized Euromaidan :roll:
VERIFIABLE proof not hysteria

sounds like how russians whine about the CIA behind every tree
''Washington helped trigger the Ukrainian War ''
Source : The establishment CATO Institute March 25 2022
The CIA is behind millions of trees in Italy, Congo, Chili,Central America,Libya, Syria, Afghanistan. Iraq,etc,etc ...
You are on of these strange individuals who sees the CIA everywhere.
You never heard of McCain and Victoria Nuland ? You do not know that the CIA chief (John Brennan, a former ( ? ) communist ) visited Ukraine several times after Euromaidan ?
You don't know that an Italian spy chief was paid by the CIA ?
You are ignorant about the role of the CIA in the ousting of Franz Jozef Strauss ?
You don't know anything about the role of the CIA in the Holocaust of the Chinese in Indonesia in 1965 and her role in the elimination of Lumumba ?
And, what about Iran in 1953?
And Operation Northwoods in 1962 ? And the other CIA operations in the US ?
And, during almost 30 years,the CIA and the BND (the German CIA ) spied on Belgian diplomats

Source : brusselstimes 24 February 2020 .
And the ridiculous attempts from the CIA to eliminate Castro by poisoning his cigars ?


Sid Guttridge
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Posts: 10158
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 12:19

Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#138

Post by Sid Guttridge » 04 Aug 2022, 21:44

Hi ljadw,

You say, "The Cato Institute would disagree with you ."

Ahhhh, but does it?

It certainly says, "Russia’s invasion is in contravention of international law and shows a flagrant disregard for the truth", but where does it contradict any of the points I made?

Cheers,

Sid,

LineDoggie
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Posts: 1275
Joined: 03 Oct 2008, 21:06

Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#139

Post by LineDoggie » 04 Aug 2022, 23:44

ljadw wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 21:25


You never heard of McCain and Victoria Nuland ?
John McCain? yes a Vietnam war hero and US Senator, he passed away a few years ago.

Nuland? she didn't start, or plan Euromaiden and YOU have ugatz for proof she did. Just the usual russian bs. She helped guarantee loans to Ukraine and you cannot prove otherwise....

ljadw wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 21:25
You do not know that the CIA chief (John Brennan, a former ( ? ) communist ) visited Ukraine several times after Euromaidan ?
Which means what? again ACTUAL evidence, Brennan made many trips you have transcripts of what was said during those trips? or your usual imagined hysteria?
ljadw wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 21:25
You don't know that an Italian spy chief was paid by the CIA ?
You have a verified paystub handy? otherwise again, total hearsay, You can't even name the supposed Italian Spy chief and that says much about you choices of facts....
ljadw wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 21:25
You are ignorant about the role of the CIA in the ousting of Franz Jozef Strauss ?
They had no role at all, he lost his reelection fair and square continue to deflect with red herrings son, its amusing how triggered you are and how you post nothing that can be verified.
ljadw wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 21:25
You don't know anything about the role of the CIA in the Holocaust of the Chinese in Indonesia in 1965 and her role in the elimination of Lumumba ?
And, what about Iran in 1953?
And Operation Northwoods in 1962 ? And the other CIA operations in the US ?
And, during almost 30 years,the CIA and the BND (the German CIA ) spied on Belgian diplomats
When a Hysteric has no evidence he goes back and puts out red herrings to deflect his lack of evidence China in the 50's has nothing to do with Ukraine so bark some more it still shows you dont know
ljadw wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 21:25
Source : brusselstimes 24 February 2020 .
And the ridiculous attempts from the CIA to eliminate Castro by poisoning his cigars ?
Wasn't this all about you had proof Zelensky was evil and selling weapons before your ballistic arc into Hysteria and conspiracy theories? You gave up on that?


You forgot to add the Rothchilds, Lizard people and international Jewery(? spelling) in your rants

LINKS actual LINKS

Try it sometimes
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

Peter89
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Posts: 2369
Joined: 28 Aug 2018, 06:52
Location: Europe

Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#140

Post by Peter89 » 05 Aug 2022, 06:38

Aida1 wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 20:54

Obvious nonsense. Ukraine would never be coerced to anything by the US and UK. It was only ever threatened by Russia. It wants to join NATO and EU and should be accepted. The Ukraine is not a vassal state of Russia.
Joining the EU is a procedure which has a negotiation framework. Ukraine was and is light years away from closing a number of chapters. It's not that "they apply and they should be accepted".
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."

Peter89
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Posts: 2369
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Location: Europe

Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#141

Post by Peter89 » 05 Aug 2022, 06:50

Aida1 wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 20:59
This is the usual pro Russian tunnel view on the world.
There is no prohibition on Ukraine joining NATO. It is only the weakness of European appeasers of Putin that has kept Ukraine out of NATO.
The Ukraine would be a very good NATO member. Very motivated.
Again... you could refrain from personal comments.

Joining the NATO requires a lengthy negotiation followed by a unanimous vote of the existing members. Greek veto practically forced Macedonia to change the name of the country.
Hungary would never vote for Ukraine's ascension with its current discriminative laws, and the current Ukrainian leadership would not revoke those laws which they take so seriously that the president himself was fined.
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."

Sid Guttridge
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Posts: 10158
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 12:19

Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#142

Post by Sid Guttridge » 05 Aug 2022, 06:50

Hi Peter89,

It is true that Ukraine could only become an EU member in one or two decades. However, this still represents a major threat to Russian nationalists like Putin, who believe that Ukraine doesn't really exist, because it would mean that Ukraine was adopting values and standards increasingly alien to Russian ones, thereby accentuating the existing differences between the two peoples. Russian nationalists have invaded Ukraine precisely to halt this steady westward drift by Kiev, which is taking the route previously trodden by other Slavic countries into the Western camp.

Cheers,

Sid.

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15583
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#143

Post by ljadw » 05 Aug 2022, 06:58

LineDoggie wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 23:44
ljadw wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 21:25


You never heard of McCain and Victoria Nuland ?
John McCain? yes a Vietnam war hero and US Senator, he passed away a few years ago.

Nuland? she didn't start, or plan Euromaiden and YOU have ugatz for proof she did. Just the usual russian bs. She helped guarantee loans to Ukraine and you cannot prove otherwise....

ljadw wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 21:25
You do not know that the CIA chief (John Brennan, a former ( ? ) communist ) visited Ukraine several times after Euromaidan ?
Which means what? again ACTUAL evidence, Brennan made many trips you have transcripts of what was said during those trips? or your usual imagined hysteria?
ljadw wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 21:25
You don't know that an Italian spy chief was paid by the CIA ?
You have a verified paystub handy? otherwise again, total hearsay, You can't even name the supposed Italian Spy chief and that says much about you choices of facts....
ljadw wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 21:25
You are ignorant about the role of the CIA in the ousting of Franz Jozef Strauss ?
They had no role at all, he lost his reelection fair and square continue to deflect with red herrings son, its amusing how triggered you are and how you post nothing that can be verified.
ljadw wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 21:25
You don't know anything about the role of the CIA in the Holocaust of the Chinese in Indonesia in 1965 and her role in the elimination of Lumumba ?
And, what about Iran in 1953?
And Operation Northwoods in 1962 ? And the other CIA operations in the US ?
And, during almost 30 years,the CIA and the BND (the German CIA ) spied on Belgian diplomats
When a Hysteric has no evidence he goes back and puts out red herrings to deflect his lack of evidence China in the 50's has nothing to do with Ukraine so bark some more it still shows you dont know
ljadw wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 21:25
Source : brusselstimes 24 February 2020 .
And the ridiculous attempts from the CIA to eliminate Castro by poisoning his cigars ?
Wasn't this all about you had proof Zelensky was evil and selling weapons before your ballistic arc into Hysteria and conspiracy theories? You gave up on that?


You forgot to add the Rothchilds, Lizard people and international Jewery(? spelling) in your rants

LINKS actual LINKS

Try it sometimes
Strauss : never heard of the Der Spiegel affair,where Gehlen ,the chief of the German CIA ousted Strauss,German Defense minister,because Strauss wanted to make Germany more independent from the US ?
You don't know that Adenauer wanted to arrest Gehlen ?
And about Italy :you never heard of Vito Miceli, who received $800000 ?
Opposed to what you claim, the CIA was not something as the boy scouts of the US .

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15583
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#144

Post by ljadw » 05 Aug 2022, 07:16

Sid Guttridge wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 21:44
Hi ljadw,

You say, "The Cato Institute would disagree with you ."

Ahhhh, but does it?

It certainly says, "Russia’s invasion is in contravention of international law and shows a flagrant disregard for the truth", but where does it contradict any of the points I made?

Cheers,

Sid,
The CATO (Koch ) Institute said that it was not the existence of an independent Ukrainian state that triggered the Russian intervention,but the attempts from Washington to transform Ukraine in a US satellite,and,given the Russian paranoia, these attempts were contra productive ,til 2014 Putin did not intervene in Ukraine : it was Euromaidan (where McCain was present, maybe he thought that Kiev was situated in Arizona ) which caused the first Ukrainian war .And before Euromaidan, Nuland was discussing with the US ambassador in Ukraine who would be the best Ukrainian ministers .
Imagine the reactions when ,before a pro Russian Euromaidan, Lavrov would discuss with the Russian ambassador in Ukraine,who would be the best Ukrainian ministers .
If Ukraine was a neutral country,as claimed Washington, there was no place for Nuland and McCain in Ukraine .
Their activities proved that Ukraine was not neutral .
What was doing a US senator during a revolt in Ukraine ?
What would have done Washington in 1959 if a Russian minister was present during the revolt by Castro ?

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15583
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#145

Post by ljadw » 05 Aug 2022, 08:28

About Ukrainian weapon exports :
Ukraine SOLD weapons, it did not give them away .Thus, why should we give weapons for free ?
Til 2018 Ukraine sold weapons to Russia ( nice ! )
After 2014 10 European countries continue to SELL weapons to Russia (sanctions were only blah blah )
In 2019 (when Zelinski was president ) Ukraine sold weapons to China, KSA, Turkey,India and Turkey sold weapons to Ukraine .
If Ukraine sold weapons to Turkey that invaded Syria and Iraq,why could we not sell weapons to Russia that invades Ukraine ?
Or ,is it the usual double standard ?

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15583
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#146

Post by ljadw » 05 Aug 2022, 08:37

In 2019 Ukraine sold weapons for $ 96 million
in 2020 for 115 million .
Why have we not the same rights ?

Sid Guttridge
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 12:19

Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#147

Post by Sid Guttridge » 05 Aug 2022, 09:59

Hi ljadw,

I note that you did not produce a single contradiction by the Cato Institute of a single one of my points. Not a one!

If the Cato Institute begins its analysis in 2014 it simply goes to prove my original point about "Most analysis lacks historical depth". Putin isn't so short sighted. He is increasingly calling on the 300-year-old shade of Peter the Great in his speeches!

Besides, why does Ukraine have to be neutral?

Cheers,

Sid

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15583
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#148

Post by ljadw » 05 Aug 2022, 13:21

You said that Russia could not admit the existence of a sovereign Ukrainian state and that that is the reason why Putin attacked .
The facts are that during more than 20 years Ukraine existed as an independent state and that Putin did nothing .The CIA coup of Euromaidan triggered a Russian answer and then ... NOTHING happened and Ukraine continued to exist as an independent state, notwithstanding the mass US weapons transports to Ukraine . Putin remained silent and did nothing when Zelensky became president .
No one knows why he attacked in February ,we only know that the reasons given by Radio Free Europa are lies . We can only assume a reason,which is , IMHO, the attempts from the US and its satellites ,to destabilize Lycachenko from Bielarus .This increased the paranoia in the Kremlin,and not unjustifiedly : if the CIA dares to try to eliminate Lycachenko, they would do the same with Putin .

The world of the Kremlin is a world where Russia is encircled by its enemies as was the USSR before and after WW2 . Putin does not try to transform Nicaragua in a Russian satellite,as is doing US with Ukraine .Why must Ukraine (if you say Ukraine,you say corruption ) become a member of NATO and the EU (the economic NATO ) at the cost of the European taxpayer .Besides :why does Ukraine have to be a US satellite ?

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15583
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#149

Post by ljadw » 05 Aug 2022, 13:30

The title of the CATO (Koch ) Institute article is :
''Washington helped trigger the Ukraine war '.
And in the article,one can read the following :''US treated Ukraine as a NATO ally ''.

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15583
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#150

Post by ljadw » 05 Aug 2022, 13:34

Sid Guttridge wrote:
05 Aug 2022, 06:50
Hi Peter89,

Russian nationalists have invaded Ukraine precisely to halt this steady westward drift by Kiev, which is taking the route previously trodden by other Slavic countries into the Western camp.

Cheers,

Sid.
Russian nationalists have invaded Ukraine,after a period of more than 20 years when they did nothing . Thus it is not a question of nationalism.
It is a question of fear for the western Einkreisung ( encirclment ) .

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