Whis is not the same thing as an invasion by US forces.
Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
You never heard of McCain and Victoria Nuland ? You do not know that the CIA chief (John Brennan, a former ( ? ) communist ) visited Ukraine several times after Euromaidan ?Aida1 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2022, 21:02You are on of these strange individuals who sees the CIA everywhere.ljadw wrote: ↑04 Aug 2022, 06:34''Washington helped trigger the Ukrainian War ''LineDoggie wrote: ↑04 Aug 2022, 01:09VERIFIABLE proof not hysteria
sounds like how russians whine about the CIA behind every tree
Source : The establishment CATO Institute March 25 2022
The CIA is behind millions of trees in Italy, Congo, Chili,Central America,Libya, Syria, Afghanistan. Iraq,etc,etc ...
You don't know that an Italian spy chief was paid by the CIA ?
You are ignorant about the role of the CIA in the ousting of Franz Jozef Strauss ?
You don't know anything about the role of the CIA in the Holocaust of the Chinese in Indonesia in 1965 and her role in the elimination of Lumumba ?
And, what about Iran in 1953?
And Operation Northwoods in 1962 ? And the other CIA operations in the US ?
And, during almost 30 years,the CIA and the BND (the German CIA ) spied on Belgian diplomats
Source : brusselstimes 24 February 2020 .
And the ridiculous attempts from the CIA to eliminate Castro by poisoning his cigars ?
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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
Hi ljadw,
You say, "The Cato Institute would disagree with you ."
Ahhhh, but does it?
It certainly says, "Russia’s invasion is in contravention of international law and shows a flagrant disregard for the truth", but where does it contradict any of the points I made?
Cheers,
Sid,
You say, "The Cato Institute would disagree with you ."
Ahhhh, but does it?
It certainly says, "Russia’s invasion is in contravention of international law and shows a flagrant disregard for the truth", but where does it contradict any of the points I made?
Cheers,
Sid,
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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
John McCain? yes a Vietnam war hero and US Senator, he passed away a few years ago.
Nuland? she didn't start, or plan Euromaiden and YOU have ugatz for proof she did. Just the usual russian bs. She helped guarantee loans to Ukraine and you cannot prove otherwise....
Which means what? again ACTUAL evidence, Brennan made many trips you have transcripts of what was said during those trips? or your usual imagined hysteria?
You have a verified paystub handy? otherwise again, total hearsay, You can't even name the supposed Italian Spy chief and that says much about you choices of facts....
They had no role at all, he lost his reelection fair and square continue to deflect with red herrings son, its amusing how triggered you are and how you post nothing that can be verified.
When a Hysteric has no evidence he goes back and puts out red herrings to deflect his lack of evidence China in the 50's has nothing to do with Ukraine so bark some more it still shows you dont knowljadw wrote: ↑04 Aug 2022, 21:25You don't know anything about the role of the CIA in the Holocaust of the Chinese in Indonesia in 1965 and her role in the elimination of Lumumba ?
And, what about Iran in 1953?
And Operation Northwoods in 1962 ? And the other CIA operations in the US ?
And, during almost 30 years,the CIA and the BND (the German CIA ) spied on Belgian diplomats
Wasn't this all about you had proof Zelensky was evil and selling weapons before your ballistic arc into Hysteria and conspiracy theories? You gave up on that?
You forgot to add the Rothchilds, Lizard people and international Jewery(? spelling) in your rants
LINKS actual LINKS
Try it sometimes
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach
Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
Joining the EU is a procedure which has a negotiation framework. Ukraine was and is light years away from closing a number of chapters. It's not that "they apply and they should be accepted".
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."
Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
Again... you could refrain from personal comments.
Joining the NATO requires a lengthy negotiation followed by a unanimous vote of the existing members. Greek veto practically forced Macedonia to change the name of the country.
Hungary would never vote for Ukraine's ascension with its current discriminative laws, and the current Ukrainian leadership would not revoke those laws which they take so seriously that the president himself was fined.
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."
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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
Hi Peter89,
It is true that Ukraine could only become an EU member in one or two decades. However, this still represents a major threat to Russian nationalists like Putin, who believe that Ukraine doesn't really exist, because it would mean that Ukraine was adopting values and standards increasingly alien to Russian ones, thereby accentuating the existing differences between the two peoples. Russian nationalists have invaded Ukraine precisely to halt this steady westward drift by Kiev, which is taking the route previously trodden by other Slavic countries into the Western camp.
Cheers,
Sid.
It is true that Ukraine could only become an EU member in one or two decades. However, this still represents a major threat to Russian nationalists like Putin, who believe that Ukraine doesn't really exist, because it would mean that Ukraine was adopting values and standards increasingly alien to Russian ones, thereby accentuating the existing differences between the two peoples. Russian nationalists have invaded Ukraine precisely to halt this steady westward drift by Kiev, which is taking the route previously trodden by other Slavic countries into the Western camp.
Cheers,
Sid.
Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
Strauss : never heard of the Der Spiegel affair,where Gehlen ,the chief of the German CIA ousted Strauss,German Defense minister,because Strauss wanted to make Germany more independent from the US ?LineDoggie wrote: ↑04 Aug 2022, 23:44John McCain? yes a Vietnam war hero and US Senator, he passed away a few years ago.
Nuland? she didn't start, or plan Euromaiden and YOU have ugatz for proof she did. Just the usual russian bs. She helped guarantee loans to Ukraine and you cannot prove otherwise....
Which means what? again ACTUAL evidence, Brennan made many trips you have transcripts of what was said during those trips? or your usual imagined hysteria?
You have a verified paystub handy? otherwise again, total hearsay, You can't even name the supposed Italian Spy chief and that says much about you choices of facts....
They had no role at all, he lost his reelection fair and square continue to deflect with red herrings son, its amusing how triggered you are and how you post nothing that can be verified.
When a Hysteric has no evidence he goes back and puts out red herrings to deflect his lack of evidence China in the 50's has nothing to do with Ukraine so bark some more it still shows you dont knowljadw wrote: ↑04 Aug 2022, 21:25You don't know anything about the role of the CIA in the Holocaust of the Chinese in Indonesia in 1965 and her role in the elimination of Lumumba ?
And, what about Iran in 1953?
And Operation Northwoods in 1962 ? And the other CIA operations in the US ?
And, during almost 30 years,the CIA and the BND (the German CIA ) spied on Belgian diplomatsWasn't this all about you had proof Zelensky was evil and selling weapons before your ballistic arc into Hysteria and conspiracy theories? You gave up on that?
You forgot to add the Rothchilds, Lizard people and international Jewery(? spelling) in your rants
LINKS actual LINKS
Try it sometimes
You don't know that Adenauer wanted to arrest Gehlen ?
And about Italy :you never heard of Vito Miceli, who received $800000 ?
Opposed to what you claim, the CIA was not something as the boy scouts of the US .
Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
The CATO (Koch ) Institute said that it was not the existence of an independent Ukrainian state that triggered the Russian intervention,but the attempts from Washington to transform Ukraine in a US satellite,and,given the Russian paranoia, these attempts were contra productive ,til 2014 Putin did not intervene in Ukraine : it was Euromaidan (where McCain was present, maybe he thought that Kiev was situated in Arizona ) which caused the first Ukrainian war .And before Euromaidan, Nuland was discussing with the US ambassador in Ukraine who would be the best Ukrainian ministers .Sid Guttridge wrote: ↑04 Aug 2022, 21:44Hi ljadw,
You say, "The Cato Institute would disagree with you ."
Ahhhh, but does it?
It certainly says, "Russia’s invasion is in contravention of international law and shows a flagrant disregard for the truth", but where does it contradict any of the points I made?
Cheers,
Sid,
Imagine the reactions when ,before a pro Russian Euromaidan, Lavrov would discuss with the Russian ambassador in Ukraine,who would be the best Ukrainian ministers .
If Ukraine was a neutral country,as claimed Washington, there was no place for Nuland and McCain in Ukraine .
Their activities proved that Ukraine was not neutral .
What was doing a US senator during a revolt in Ukraine ?
What would have done Washington in 1959 if a Russian minister was present during the revolt by Castro ?
Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
About Ukrainian weapon exports :
Ukraine SOLD weapons, it did not give them away .Thus, why should we give weapons for free ?
Til 2018 Ukraine sold weapons to Russia ( nice ! )
After 2014 10 European countries continue to SELL weapons to Russia (sanctions were only blah blah )
In 2019 (when Zelinski was president ) Ukraine sold weapons to China, KSA, Turkey,India and Turkey sold weapons to Ukraine .
If Ukraine sold weapons to Turkey that invaded Syria and Iraq,why could we not sell weapons to Russia that invades Ukraine ?
Or ,is it the usual double standard ?
Ukraine SOLD weapons, it did not give them away .Thus, why should we give weapons for free ?
Til 2018 Ukraine sold weapons to Russia ( nice ! )
After 2014 10 European countries continue to SELL weapons to Russia (sanctions were only blah blah )
In 2019 (when Zelinski was president ) Ukraine sold weapons to China, KSA, Turkey,India and Turkey sold weapons to Ukraine .
If Ukraine sold weapons to Turkey that invaded Syria and Iraq,why could we not sell weapons to Russia that invades Ukraine ?
Or ,is it the usual double standard ?
Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
In 2019 Ukraine sold weapons for $ 96 million
in 2020 for 115 million .
Why have we not the same rights ?
in 2020 for 115 million .
Why have we not the same rights ?
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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
Hi ljadw,
I note that you did not produce a single contradiction by the Cato Institute of a single one of my points. Not a one!
If the Cato Institute begins its analysis in 2014 it simply goes to prove my original point about "Most analysis lacks historical depth". Putin isn't so short sighted. He is increasingly calling on the 300-year-old shade of Peter the Great in his speeches!
Besides, why does Ukraine have to be neutral?
Cheers,
Sid
I note that you did not produce a single contradiction by the Cato Institute of a single one of my points. Not a one!
If the Cato Institute begins its analysis in 2014 it simply goes to prove my original point about "Most analysis lacks historical depth". Putin isn't so short sighted. He is increasingly calling on the 300-year-old shade of Peter the Great in his speeches!
Besides, why does Ukraine have to be neutral?
Cheers,
Sid
Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
You said that Russia could not admit the existence of a sovereign Ukrainian state and that that is the reason why Putin attacked .
The facts are that during more than 20 years Ukraine existed as an independent state and that Putin did nothing .The CIA coup of Euromaidan triggered a Russian answer and then ... NOTHING happened and Ukraine continued to exist as an independent state, notwithstanding the mass US weapons transports to Ukraine . Putin remained silent and did nothing when Zelensky became president .
No one knows why he attacked in February ,we only know that the reasons given by Radio Free Europa are lies . We can only assume a reason,which is , IMHO, the attempts from the US and its satellites ,to destabilize Lycachenko from Bielarus .This increased the paranoia in the Kremlin,and not unjustifiedly : if the CIA dares to try to eliminate Lycachenko, they would do the same with Putin .
The world of the Kremlin is a world where Russia is encircled by its enemies as was the USSR before and after WW2 . Putin does not try to transform Nicaragua in a Russian satellite,as is doing US with Ukraine .Why must Ukraine (if you say Ukraine,you say corruption ) become a member of NATO and the EU (the economic NATO ) at the cost of the European taxpayer .Besides :why does Ukraine have to be a US satellite ?
The facts are that during more than 20 years Ukraine existed as an independent state and that Putin did nothing .The CIA coup of Euromaidan triggered a Russian answer and then ... NOTHING happened and Ukraine continued to exist as an independent state, notwithstanding the mass US weapons transports to Ukraine . Putin remained silent and did nothing when Zelensky became president .
No one knows why he attacked in February ,we only know that the reasons given by Radio Free Europa are lies . We can only assume a reason,which is , IMHO, the attempts from the US and its satellites ,to destabilize Lycachenko from Bielarus .This increased the paranoia in the Kremlin,and not unjustifiedly : if the CIA dares to try to eliminate Lycachenko, they would do the same with Putin .
The world of the Kremlin is a world where Russia is encircled by its enemies as was the USSR before and after WW2 . Putin does not try to transform Nicaragua in a Russian satellite,as is doing US with Ukraine .Why must Ukraine (if you say Ukraine,you say corruption ) become a member of NATO and the EU (the economic NATO ) at the cost of the European taxpayer .Besides :why does Ukraine have to be a US satellite ?
Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
The title of the CATO (Koch ) Institute article is :
''Washington helped trigger the Ukraine war '.
And in the article,one can read the following :''US treated Ukraine as a NATO ally ''.
''Washington helped trigger the Ukraine war '.
And in the article,one can read the following :''US treated Ukraine as a NATO ally ''.
Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine
Russian nationalists have invaded Ukraine,after a period of more than 20 years when they did nothing . Thus it is not a question of nationalism.Sid Guttridge wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022, 06:50Hi Peter89,
Russian nationalists have invaded Ukraine precisely to halt this steady westward drift by Kiev, which is taking the route previously trodden by other Slavic countries into the Western camp.
Cheers,
Sid.
It is a question of fear for the western Einkreisung ( encirclment ) .