Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
Post Reply
User avatar
TheMarcksPlan
Banned
Posts: 3255
Joined: 15 Jan 2019, 23:32
Location: USA

Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

#421

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 13 May 2022, 17:31

Thanks
https://twitter.com/themarcksplan
https://www.reddit.com/r/AxisHistoryForum/
https://medium.com/counterfactualww2
"The whole question of whether we win or lose the war depends on the Russians." - FDR, June 1942

Huszar666
Member
Posts: 255
Joined: 18 Dec 2021, 15:02
Location: Budakeszi

Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

#422

Post by Huszar666 » 22 May 2022, 19:26

Actually, the weather pre-Barbarossa is equal to that of September 1940 in the English Chanel.
For both, it is said, it was bad and did not favour operations. But strangly, there are no definite data for either.

I start to susspect that Generals Schlamm and Schnee, Admiral Seegang and Luftmarschall Wolken, who conspired to make the Führer's wishes impossible, being just scapegoats, since the wonderously impacted only the German side.


historygeek2021
Member
Posts: 641
Joined: 17 Dec 2020, 07:23
Location: Australia

Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

#423

Post by historygeek2021 » 18 Jul 2022, 17:24

Max Payload wrote:
23 Jan 2021, 01:57

Transport Echelon III. peacetime railroad schedule, 8 April -20 May: 17 Divs., GHq. troops from ZI and West.
Transport Echelon IV B, maximum railroad schedule, 3 June -23 June: 12 Armd. Divs. and 12 mot Divs from ZI, West and Southeast.
What does "ZI" stand for?

Richard Anderson
Member
Posts: 6350
Joined: 01 Jan 2016, 22:21
Location: Bremerton, Washington

Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

#424

Post by Richard Anderson » 18 Jul 2022, 18:01

historygeek2021 wrote:
18 Jul 2022, 17:24
Max Payload wrote:
23 Jan 2021, 01:57

Transport Echelon III. peacetime railroad schedule, 8 April -20 May: 17 Divs., GHq. troops from ZI and West.
Transport Echelon IV B, maximum railroad schedule, 3 June -23 June: 12 Armd. Divs. and 12 mot Divs from ZI, West and Southeast.
What does "ZI" stand for?
Zone of the Interior. World War II U.S. Army speak for CONUS.
Richard C. Anderson Jr.

American Thunder: U.S. Army Tank Design, Development, and Doctrine in World War II
Cracking Hitler's Atlantic Wall
Hitler's Last Gamble
Artillery Hell

historygeek2021
Member
Posts: 641
Joined: 17 Dec 2020, 07:23
Location: Australia

Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

#425

Post by historygeek2021 » 18 Jul 2022, 18:58

Richard Anderson wrote:
18 Jul 2022, 18:01

Zone of the Interior. World War II U.S. Army speak for CONUS.
Thanks.

User avatar
Aida1
Member
Posts: 4506
Joined: 04 Aug 2019, 09:46
Location: Brussels

Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

#426

Post by Aida1 » 31 Jul 2022, 10:40

Huszar666 wrote:
22 May 2022, 19:26
Actually, the weather pre-Barbarossa is equal to that of September 1940 in the English Chanel.
For both, it is said, it was bad and did not favour operations. But strangly, there are no definite data for either.

I start to susspect that Generals Schlamm and Schnee, Admiral Seegang and Luftmarschall Wolken, who conspired to make the Führer's wishes impossible, being just scapegoats, since the wonderously impacted only the German side.
Weather does impact military operations and it can make an operation much more difficult or impossible. If bad weather for example makes flying impossible then the side that has air superiority is negatively impacted by this and the other side profits. If mud makes fast advances impossible after a breakthrough then the defender profits. Very simplistic therefore to call weather a scapegoat.

TheSearcher1941
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 25 Sep 2008, 01:51
Location: North America

Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

#427

Post by TheSearcher1941 » 28 Aug 2022, 22:41

I am starting (again) to see if I can dig up anything on a relative from Barbarosa, Aug 1941, Borowiki, Belarus. I have some info, but not good with figuring his unit. Does anyone have info on units in the area of Borowiki, Beresina/Dnejpr rivers, beginning Aug, 1941? Can anyone point me?

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15588
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

#428

Post by ljadw » 29 Aug 2022, 11:15

Huszar666 wrote:
22 May 2022, 19:26
Actually, the weather pre-Barbarossa is equal to that of September 1940 in the English Chanel.
For both, it is said, it was bad and did not favour operations. But strangly, there are no definite data for either.

I start to susspect that Generals Schlamm and Schnee, Admiral Seegang and Luftmarschall Wolken, who conspired to make the Führer's wishes impossible, being just scapegoats, since the wonderously impacted only the German side.
Of course, they are scapegoats, otherwise the WM fans should explain why the WM failed to defeat the Soviets in the Summer of 1941,when weather was better .
And, if is the same for Sealion : Sealion would also have failed in the weather was better in September .
To blame the weather is to hide the fact that there were two parties in all operations .
The Soviet Winter offensive (which started after the failure of Typhoon ) also failed, but not because of the Winter .

User avatar
Aida1
Member
Posts: 4506
Joined: 04 Aug 2019, 09:46
Location: Brussels

Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

#429

Post by Aida1 » 01 Sep 2022, 12:34

ljadw wrote:
29 Aug 2022, 11:15
Huszar666 wrote:
22 May 2022, 19:26
Actually, the weather pre-Barbarossa is equal to that of September 1940 in the English Chanel.
For both, it is said, it was bad and did not favour operations. But strangly, there are no definite data for either.

I start to susspect that Generals Schlamm and Schnee, Admiral Seegang and Luftmarschall Wolken, who conspired to make the Führer's wishes impossible, being just scapegoats, since the wonderously impacted only the German side.
Of course, they are scapegoats, otherwise the WM fans should explain why the WM failed to defeat the Soviets in the Summer of 1941,when weather was better .
And, if is the same for Sealion : Sealion would also have failed in the weather was better in September .
To blame the weather is to hide the fact that there were two parties in all operations .
The Soviet Winter offensive (which started after the failure of Typhoon ) also failed, but not because of the Winter .
As usual in denial of the effect of weather on military operations. Simply ignoring weather conditions when intending a military operation would be very dumb.

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15588
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

#430

Post by ljadw » 01 Sep 2022, 15:24

What was the effect of the Summer of 1941 on the fighting ?The result was a German failure .Thus,the delay of Barbarossa had no effect on the outcome of the war in the East .

User avatar
Aida1
Member
Posts: 4506
Joined: 04 Aug 2019, 09:46
Location: Brussels

Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

#431

Post by Aida1 » 01 Sep 2022, 18:31

ljadw wrote:
01 Sep 2022, 15:24
What was the effect of the Summer of 1941 on the fighting ?The result was a German failure .Thus,the delay of Barbarossa had no effect on the outcome of the war in the East .
Not what I said. The late start of Typhoon certainly had a negative impact on operations.

Post Reply

Return to “WW2 in Eastern Europe”