news from Russo-Ukraine Front

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Martin_from_Valhalla
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Posts: 141
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Location: Russia, Siberia

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#61

Post by Martin_from_Valhalla » 14 Sep 2022, 18:13

Hikari wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 17:48
Martin_from_Valhalla wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 17:29
Cult Icon, what do you think of the following conspiracy? Putin wouldn't have started that war, if Biden hadn't been elected with his age, laziness out of age, starting dementia and weakness in general due to all circumstances. So, Putin needs Biden in the White House. And in November there will be elections in The USA Senate. Biden and his son are having some troubles with this 'Ukrainagate'. Could there be some secret negotiations between two presidents about recent Russian rtreat to regroup which would give some credit to Biden? Not everyone among American taxpayers like spending money on helping Ukraine but now they see the result, though, unfortunately, British Queen died in inappropriate moment.

What gets Putin? Biden's undecisiveness. Biden keeps on loitering to help Ukraine fully and unconditionally. Ukraine gets money but they don't get tanks, howitzers that shoot longer than 100 km, armored vehicles. They simply don't get an offensive weaponry only a defensive one. Ukraine got some tanks from Europe but that was rather a long time ago and the aid is limited to some howitzers, shells and other though needed but unoffensive stuff.

Anyway, The White House started warning about Putin's invasion almost a year ago, noone was taking it seriously. How did they learnt about invasion? Could be that Putin himself was inquiring position of The USA on that matter. Piling of Russian troops and tanks near Ukrainian border wouldn't have meant anything, as there were always there since 2014 more or less.
The Chinese official media until February 22 mocked the failure of the U.S. "paranoia about Putin's invasion of Ukraine".
Probably, on the highest level everyone knew and Xi learnt that too when Putin vizited Olimpic Games in Beiging last winter to consult on invasion. By the way, that man Strelkov of whom you were asking today also was telling a few days ago about 'negotiated retreat of Russian troops near Kharkov'. Our troops almost ran away in a hurry from several small villages to the East from Oskol without much fighting and quite a big group of our troops was besieged near village Studenok. But they left by the road which was shootable by Ukrainian artillery but Himars didn't fire giving them time to leave. Looked like Ilovaysk encirclement in 2014 when Ukrainians had a catastrophic defeat but...it happened to be another Dunkerk when Hitler allowed British troops to leave hoping for peace treaty with Churchill.

Might be a restrictive/demarcation line by the river Oskol was negotiated, so suddenly Ukrainian offensive was stopped without much ado.

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Hikari
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Posts: 85
Joined: 13 Jan 2020, 03:21
Location: USA VA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#62

Post by Hikari » 14 Sep 2022, 18:23

Martin_from_Valhalla wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 18:13
Hikari wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 17:48
Martin_from_Valhalla wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 17:29
Cult Icon, what do you think of the following conspiracy? Putin wouldn't have started that war, if Biden hadn't been elected with his age, laziness out of age, starting dementia and weakness in general due to all circumstances. So, Putin needs Biden in the White House. And in November there will be elections in The USA Senate. Biden and his son are having some troubles with this 'Ukrainagate'. Could there be some secret negotiations between two presidents about recent Russian rtreat to regroup which would give some credit to Biden? Not everyone among American taxpayers like spending money on helping Ukraine but now they see the result, though, unfortunately, British Queen died in inappropriate moment.

What gets Putin? Biden's undecisiveness. Biden keeps on loitering to help Ukraine fully and unconditionally. Ukraine gets money but they don't get tanks, howitzers that shoot longer than 100 km, armored vehicles. They simply don't get an offensive weaponry only a defensive one. Ukraine got some tanks from Europe but that was rather a long time ago and the aid is limited to some howitzers, shells and other though needed but unoffensive stuff.

Anyway, The White House started warning about Putin's invasion almost a year ago, noone was taking it seriously. How did they learnt about invasion? Could be that Putin himself was inquiring position of The USA on that matter. Piling of Russian troops and tanks near Ukrainian border wouldn't have meant anything, as there were always there since 2014 more or less.
The Chinese official media until February 22 mocked the failure of the U.S. "paranoia about Putin's invasion of Ukraine".
Probably, on the highest level everyone knew and Xi learnt that too when Putin vizited Olimpic Games in Beiging last winter to consult on invasion. By the way, that man Strelkov of whom you were asking today also was telling a few days ago about 'negotiated retreat of Russian troops near Kharkov'. Our troops almost ran away in a hurry from several small villages to the East from Oskol without much fighting and quite a big group of our troops was besieged near village Studenok. But they left by the road which was shootable by Ukrainian artillery but Himars didn't fire giving them time to leave. Looked like Ilovaysk encirclement in 2014 when Ukrainians had a catastrophic defeat but...it happened to be another Dunkerk when Hitler allowed British troops to leave hoping for peace treaty with Churchill.

Might be a negotiation line by the river Oskol was negotiated, so suddenly Ukrainian offensive was stopped without much ado.
At the end of February everyone was discussing one thing on social media, why we didn't evacuate the Chinese from Ukraine like the US did.

The story later was that this discussion was banned.

It is less clear whether Xi knows Putin's specific war plans.

Strelkov... Anyway, this guy is quite popular in the Chinese forum which discussing this war

I like his "pink pony planet of the Kremlin" analogy. If I dare to speak freely in China, I will definitely write "Winnie the Pooh Planet".

Respect


ljadw
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Posts: 15585
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#63

Post by ljadw » 14 Sep 2022, 18:41

Martin_from_Valhalla wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 18:13
Hikari wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 17:48
Martin_from_Valhalla wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 17:29
Cult Icon, what do you think of the following conspiracy? Putin wouldn't have started that war, if Biden hadn't been elected with his age, laziness out of age, starting dementia and weakness in general due to all circumstances. So, Putin needs Biden in the White House. And in November there will be elections in The USA Senate. Biden and his son are having some troubles with this 'Ukrainagate'. Could there be some secret negotiations between two presidents about recent Russian rtreat to regroup which would give some credit to Biden? Not everyone among American taxpayers like spending money on helping Ukraine but now they see the result, though, unfortunately, British Queen died in inappropriate moment.

What gets Putin? Biden's undecisiveness. Biden keeps on loitering to help Ukraine fully and unconditionally. Ukraine gets money but they don't get tanks, howitzers that shoot longer than 100 km, armored vehicles. They simply don't get an offensive weaponry only a defensive one. Ukraine got some tanks from Europe but that was rather a long time ago and the aid is limited to some howitzers, shells and other though needed but unoffensive stuff.

Anyway, The White House started warning about Putin's invasion almost a year ago, noone was taking it seriously. How did they learnt about invasion? Could be that Putin himself was inquiring position of The USA on that matter. Piling of Russian troops and tanks near Ukrainian border wouldn't have meant anything, as there were always there since 2014 more or less.
The Chinese official media until February 22 mocked the failure of the U.S. "paranoia about Putin's invasion of Ukraine".
Probably, on the highest level everyone knew and Xi learnt that too when Putin vizited Olimpic Games in Beiging last winter to consult on invasion. By the way, that man Strelkov of whom you were asking today also was telling a few days ago about 'negotiated retreat of Russian troops near Kharkov'. Our troops almost ran away in a hurry from several small villages to the East from Oskol without much fighting and quite a big group of our troops was besieged near village Studenok. But they left by the road which was shootable by Ukrainian artillery but Himars didn't fire giving them time to leave. Looked like Ilovaysk encirclement in 2014 when Ukrainians had a catastrophic defeat but...it happened to be another Dunkerk when Hitler allowed British troops to leave hoping for peace treaty with Churchill.

Might be a restrictive/demarcation line by the river Oskol was negotiated, so suddenly Ukrainian offensive was stopped without much ado.
Hitler did not allow British troops to leave hoping for peace treaty with Churchill .

Sean Oliver
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: 14 Sep 2007, 19:18
Location: Wisconsin USA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#64

Post by Sean Oliver » 15 Sep 2022, 02:35

They've committed at least 1000. Oryx compiles his numbers based on photo/videos. Every one of the Russian equipment losses has a link to a photo/video of it destroyed or in Ukr hands. Also ID by model and variant

Russian Tanks Lost 1122, of which
destroyed: 671,
damaged: 44,
abandoned: 51,
captured: 356
1000 lost tanks is only 6 per day, so not an outrageous figure and probably an undercount.
Almost 7000 other Rus vehicles lost such as IFVs SPs AA etc

Ukrainian Tank losses:
Tanks 264, of which
destroyed: 143,
damaged: 5,
abandoned: 9
captured: 107
Also, prob an undercount. Ratio sounds historically similar to 90,000 + Soviet tank losses to German 25,000 in WW2 :wink:
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... pment.html

Sean Oliver
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Posts: 177
Joined: 14 Sep 2007, 19:18
Location: Wisconsin USA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#65

Post by Sean Oliver » 15 Sep 2022, 02:57

Martin_from_Valhalla wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 18:13
Hikari wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 17:48
Martin_from_Valhalla wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 17:29
Cult Icon, what do you think of the following conspiracy? Putin wouldn't have started that war, if Biden hadn't been elected with his age, laziness out of age, starting dementia and weakness in general due to all circumstances. So, Putin needs Biden in the White House. And in November there will be elections in The USA Senate. Biden and his son are having some troubles with this 'Ukrainagate'. Could there be some secret negotiations between two presidents about recent Russian rtreat to regroup which would give some credit to Biden? Not everyone among American taxpayers like spending money on helping Ukraine but now they see the result, though, unfortunately, British Queen died in inappropriate moment.

What gets Putin? Biden's undecisiveness. Biden keeps on loitering to help Ukraine fully and unconditionally. Ukraine gets money but they don't get tanks, howitzers that shoot longer than 100 km, armored vehicles. They simply don't get an offensive weaponry only a defensive one. Ukraine got some tanks from Europe but that was rather a long time ago and the aid is limited to some howitzers, shells and other though needed but unoffensive stuff.

Anyway, The White House started warning about Putin's invasion almost a year ago, noone was taking it seriously. How did they learnt about invasion? Could be that Putin himself was inquiring position of The USA on that matter. Piling of Russian troops and tanks near Ukrainian border wouldn't have meant anything, as there were always there since 2014 more or less.
The Chinese official media until February 22 mocked the failure of the U.S. "paranoia about Putin's invasion of Ukraine".
Probably, on the highest level everyone knew and Xi learnt that too when Putin vizited Olimpic Games in Beiging last winter to consult on invasion. By the way, that man Strelkov of whom you were asking today also was telling a few days ago about 'negotiated retreat of Russian troops near Kharkov'. Our troops almost ran away in a hurry from several small villages to the East from Oskol without much fighting and quite a big group of our troops was besieged near village Studenok. But they left by the road which was shootable by Ukrainian artillery but Himars didn't fire giving them time to leave. Looked like Ilovaysk encirclement in 2014 when Ukrainians had a catastrophic defeat but...it happened to be another Dunkerk when Hitler allowed British troops to leave hoping for peace treaty with Churchill.

Might be a restrictive/demarcation line by the river Oskol was negotiated, so suddenly Ukrainian offensive was stopped without much ado.
Why do people come up with this childish nonsense?

Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1545
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 22:18
Location: GA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#66

Post by Tom Peters » 15 Sep 2022, 03:07

Cult Icon wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 15:36
The Oryx blog was posted very early on in this forum. It is just weird that a blog would suddenly have 100 plus photos of wrecked Russian/Ukrainian tanks days into the war. It is also unclear where and when the pictures were taken, or even if they were of this war.

It is obvious that the blog has some sort of arrangement with Ukrainian psych-ops, feeding it a huge number of photos. It is naive to believe that all the photos in that blog are 100% accurate. Whatever the Russian/Ukrainian losses are, it doesn't really matter very much to understanding this war.
Its all a conspiracy. /sarcasm Nothing is 100% accurate, but its sure better than quoting MOD figures. Oryx is the golden standard for OSINT and you can understand their methodology.

if you dont like Oryx, check lostarmour and see if the total correlate on UKR losses (lostarmour is a RU site and not allowed to post RU losses). I told you this at least a month ago. Do your homework.
Cult Icon wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 15:36
ISW reports on Russian recruitment activities everyday, it has been going on for months. One of the things they are doing is recruiting from rural/economically depressed areas and having a lot of financial incentives.

There are also a lot of separate volunteer battalions being raised. I do not know if they are to be integrated into the rebuilding formations in the interior or will they be used a detachment to support the BTG.
here is another great source for RU replacements:

https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1570099805417881602

Russian prisons. Kind of makes you feel like conventional RU efforts to recruit people is falling on its face.

Mad Dog

Tom Peters
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Posts: 1545
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 22:18
Location: GA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#67

Post by Tom Peters » 15 Sep 2022, 03:09

ljadw wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 10:46
Nobody knows how many tanks the Russians have committed in Ukraine (from what I have seen Russia had only some 2500 tanks available at the start of the war )and nobody knows the percentage of Russian tanks that were combat /non combat losses .
In WW2 most tanks were lost to non combat causes .
The US DOD estimates 1200 RU tanks at the start. Take that with a grain of salt, sure.

it doesnt matter whether you lost the tank due to enemy fire, or the crews ran off, or it ran out of gas. A loss is a loss. At the end of the day, the UKR have gained a large windfall in # of tanks, to the point I would guess they have more available than the RU right now. Crews not so much though.

Mad Dog

Martin_from_Valhalla
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Posts: 141
Joined: 12 Feb 2021, 06:22
Location: Russia, Siberia

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#68

Post by Martin_from_Valhalla » 15 Sep 2022, 06:44

Sean Oliver wrote:
15 Sep 2022, 02:57
Martin_from_Valhalla wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 18:13
Hikari wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 17:48
Martin_from_Valhalla wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 17:29
Cult Icon, what do you think of the following conspiracy? Putin wouldn't have started that war, if Biden hadn't been elected with his age, laziness out of age, starting dementia and weakness in general due to all circumstances. So, Putin needs Biden in the White House. And in November there will be elections in The USA Senate. Biden and his son are having some troubles with this 'Ukrainagate'. Could there be some secret negotiations between two presidents about recent Russian rtreat to regroup which would give some credit to Biden? Not everyone among American taxpayers like spending money on helping Ukraine but now they see the result, though, unfortunately, British Queen died in inappropriate moment.

What gets Putin? Biden's undecisiveness. Biden keeps on loitering to help Ukraine fully and unconditionally. Ukraine gets money but they don't get tanks, howitzers that shoot longer than 100 km, armored vehicles. They simply don't get an offensive weaponry only a defensive one. Ukraine got some tanks from Europe but that was rather a long time ago and the aid is limited to some howitzers, shells and other though needed but unoffensive stuff.

Anyway, The White House started warning about Putin's invasion almost a year ago, noone was taking it seriously. How did they learnt about invasion? Could be that Putin himself was inquiring position of The USA on that matter. Piling of Russian troops and tanks near Ukrainian border wouldn't have meant anything, as there were always there since 2014 more or less.
The Chinese official media until February 22 mocked the failure of the U.S. "paranoia about Putin's invasion of Ukraine".
Probably, on the highest level everyone knew and Xi learnt that too when Putin vizited Olimpic Games in Beiging last winter to consult on invasion. By the way, that man Strelkov of whom you were asking today also was telling a few days ago about 'negotiated retreat of Russian troops near Kharkov'. Our troops almost ran away in a hurry from several small villages to the East from Oskol without much fighting and quite a big group of our troops was besieged near village Studenok. But they left by the road which was shootable by Ukrainian artillery but Himars didn't fire giving them time to leave. Looked like Ilovaysk encirclement in 2014 when Ukrainians had a catastrophic defeat but...it happened to be another Dunkerk when Hitler allowed British troops to leave hoping for peace treaty with Churchill.

Might be a restrictive/demarcation line by the river Oskol was negotiated, so suddenly Ukrainian offensive was stopped without much ado.
Why do people come up with this childish nonsense?
People need to explain somehow this catastrophic escape to the Russian audience. Otherwise, we start thinking what we want to think and the picture won't be that pleasant.

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15585
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#69

Post by ljadw » 15 Sep 2022, 07:25

Sean Oliver wrote:
15 Sep 2022, 02:35
They've committed at least 1000. Oryx compiles his numbers based on photo/videos. Every one of the Russian equipment losses has a link to a photo/video of it destroyed or in Ukr hands. Also ID by model and variant

Russian Tanks Lost 1122, of which
destroyed: 671,
damaged: 44,
abandoned: 51,
captured: 356
1000 lost tanks is only 6 per day, so not an outrageous figure and probably an undercount.
Almost 7000 other Rus vehicles lost such as IFVs SPs AA etc

Ukrainian Tank losses:
Tanks 264, of which
destroyed: 143,
damaged: 5,
abandoned: 9
captured: 107
Also, prob an undercount. Ratio sounds historically similar to 90,000 + Soviet tank losses to German 25,000 in WW2 :wink:
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... pment.html
Thus Oryx is counting damaged tanks as lost ? :roll:
Besides much too importance is given on the number of tank losses .There is no relation (causal or not ) between tank losses and the outcome of the battle .
Last point :WW2 is EIGHTY years ago and can not be used as norm and :the Soviets WON .

ljadw
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Posts: 15585
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#70

Post by ljadw » 15 Sep 2022, 07:43

Tom Peters wrote:
15 Sep 2022, 03:07
Cult Icon wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 15:36
The Oryx blog was posted very early on in this forum. It is just weird that a blog would suddenly have 100 plus photos of wrecked Russian/Ukrainian tanks days into the war. It is also unclear where and when the pictures were taken, or even if they were of this war.

It is obvious that the blog has some sort of arrangement with Ukrainian psych-ops, feeding it a huge number of photos. It is naive to believe that all the photos in that blog are 100% accurate. Whatever the Russian/Ukrainian losses are, it doesn't really matter very much to understanding this war.
Its all a conspiracy. /sarcasm Nothing is 100% accurate, but its sure better than quoting MOD figures. Oryx is the golden standard for OSINT and you can understand their methodology.

if you dont like Oryx, check lostarmour and see if the total correlate on UKR losses (lostarmour is a RU site and not allowed to post RU losses). I told you this at least a month ago. Do your homework.
Cult Icon wrote:
14 Sep 2022, 15:36
ISW reports on Russian recruitment activities everyday, it has been going on for months. One of the things they are doing is recruiting from rural/economically depressed areas and having a lot of financial incentives.

There are also a lot of separate volunteer battalions being raised. I do not know if they are to be integrated into the rebuilding formations in the interior or will they be used a detachment to support the BTG.
here is another great source for RU replacements:

https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1570099805417881602

Russian prisons. Kind of makes you feel like conventional RU efforts to recruit people is falling on its face.

Mad Dog
Jakub Janovsky ,who works for Oryx,is a supporter of the EU and NATO (he claimed it himself ) .Thus one can doubt the neutrality and thus the reliability of Oryx .

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Aida1
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Posts: 4504
Joined: 04 Aug 2019, 09:46
Location: Brussels

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#71

Post by Aida1 » 15 Sep 2022, 10:55

ljadw wrote:
15 Sep 2022, 07:25
Sean Oliver wrote:
15 Sep 2022, 02:35
They've committed at least 1000. Oryx compiles his numbers based on photo/videos. Every one of the Russian equipment losses has a link to a photo/video of it destroyed or in Ukr hands. Also ID by model and variant

Russian Tanks Lost 1122, of which
destroyed: 671,
damaged: 44,
abandoned: 51,
captured: 356
1000 lost tanks is only 6 per day, so not an outrageous figure and probably an undercount.
Almost 7000 other Rus vehicles lost such as IFVs SPs AA etc

Ukrainian Tank losses:
Tanks 264, of which
destroyed: 143,
damaged: 5,
abandoned: 9
captured: 107
Also, prob an undercount. Ratio sounds historically similar to 90,000 + Soviet tank losses to German 25,000 in WW2 :wink:
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... pment.html
Thus Oryx is counting damaged tanks as lost ? :roll:
Besides much too importance is given on the number of tank losses .There is no relation (causal or not ) between tank losses and the outcome of the battle .
Last point :WW2 is EIGHTY years ago and can not be used as norm and :the Soviets WON .
If you lose a lot of tanks, you probably are not doing well particularly if your opponent was essentially an infantry army.

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Hikari
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Posts: 85
Joined: 13 Jan 2020, 03:21
Location: USA VA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#72

Post by Hikari » 15 Sep 2022, 13:46

Aida1 wrote:
15 Sep 2022, 10:55
ljadw wrote:
15 Sep 2022, 07:25
Sean Oliver wrote:
15 Sep 2022, 02:35
They've committed at least 1000. Oryx compiles his numbers based on photo/videos. Every one of the Russian equipment losses has a link to a photo/video of it destroyed or in Ukr hands. Also ID by model and variant

Russian Tanks Lost 1122, of which
destroyed: 671,
damaged: 44,
abandoned: 51,
captured: 356
1000 lost tanks is only 6 per day, so not an outrageous figure and probably an undercount.
Almost 7000 other Rus vehicles lost such as IFVs SPs AA etc

Ukrainian Tank losses:
Tanks 264, of which
destroyed: 143,
damaged: 5,
abandoned: 9
captured: 107
Also, prob an undercount. Ratio sounds historically similar to 90,000 + Soviet tank losses to German 25,000 in WW2 :wink:
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... pment.html
Thus Oryx is counting damaged tanks as lost ? :roll:
Besides much too importance is given on the number of tank losses .There is no relation (causal or not ) between tank losses and the outcome of the battle .
Last point :WW2 is EIGHTY years ago and can not be used as norm and :the Soviets WON .
If you lose a lot of tanks, you probably are not doing well particularly if your opponent was essentially an infantry army.
Russian tank units performed incredibly bad.

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Cult Icon
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Posts: 4472
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#73

Post by Cult Icon » 15 Sep 2022, 14:03

Ukrainian losses on Oryx are heavily undercounted as of the first week of June. Ukrainian logistics general admitted to 400 tanks, around 1300 IFV, and 700 artillery pieces lost. There is a bias here with that blog.

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#74

Post by Cult Icon » 15 Sep 2022, 14:04

Hikari wrote:
15 Sep 2022, 13:46

Russian tank units performed incredibly bad.
Both Ukrainian and Russian tank units have performed badly. Both Ukrainian and Russian artillery and anti-tank weapons have performed well. One side has been attacking 97% of the time. Figure out which one :lol:

gebhk
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Posts: 2623
Joined: 25 Feb 2013, 21:23

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#75

Post by gebhk » 15 Sep 2022, 15:06

Both Ukrainian and Russian tank units have performed badly. Both Ukrainian and Russian artillery and anti-tank weapons have performed well.
This seems an accurate analysis, feeding the debate on whether tanks have 'had their day', a debate that has been going on, on and off, for the last 100 years! The only lesson I think we can take from this debate is that relatively smaller conflicts are not always a good guide to the outcome of larger ones.

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