news from Russo-Ukraine Front

[ljadw]

Ukraine's ability to wage war is tightly knit to Western support. And the masses of Europe try to get informations to make a decision about their political opinion. Thus the media effort about Ukraine is of crucial importance -Ukraine can affford to lose 10.000 men, but can not afford to lose European support. If the Europeans cut a deal with Putin's Russia, simply denying access of the weapon deliveries, Ukraine is done for. If the Europeans don't want to deal with the 10+ million Ukrainian refugees, Ukraine is done for. The attitude towards these events is shaped by the media, and the media has to be fed with the proper material.

The pictures of slaughtered civilians, torture chambers, deliberately starved prisoners and the wanton destruction of towns and cities, probably has more effect on European public opinion than the sight of yet another T-72 popping its turret though, to be fair.

As it is, public opinion in Europe towards supporting Ukraine appears to be strengthening

fex Germany 'Should we continue to support Ukraine in spite of high energy prices?'

Opinion polls as proof ?
In 1970 they said that Labour would win , in 2016 that Hillary would win ,last week that Bolsonaro would be crushed,what did they say about Brexit ?
And, when was this poll organized and who commanded him ?
And, may I also say that the question that was asked was a loaded one .

[Aida1]

Ukraine's ability to wage war is tightly knit to Western support. And the masses of Europe try to get informations to make a decision about their political opinion. Thus the media effort about Ukraine is of crucial importance -Ukraine can affford to lose 10.000 men, but can not afford to lose European support. If the Europeans cut a deal with Putin's Russia, simply denying access of the weapon deliveries, Ukraine is done for. If the Europeans don't want to deal with the 10+ million Ukrainian refugees, Ukraine is done for. The attitude towards these events is shaped by the media, and the media has to be fed with the proper material.

The pictures of slaughtered civilians, torture chambers, deliberately starved prisoners and the wanton destruction of towns and cities, probably has more effect on European public opinion than the sight of yet another T-72 popping its turret though, to be fair.

As it is, public opinion in Europe towards supporting Ukraine appears to be strengthening

fex Germany 'Should we continue to support Ukraine in spite of high energy prices?'

Opinion polls as proof ?
In 1970 they said that Labour would win , in 2016 that Hillary would win ,last week that Bolsonaro would be crushed,what did they say about Brexit ?
And, when was this poll organized and who commanded him ?
And, may I also say that the question that was asked was a loaded one .

It is not surprising you would reject the polls when they contradict you. You always reject everything.

[Aida1]

The Russians are not engaging in "bloodthristy war porn" to anywhere near the extent of the Ukrainians. Their regular army has cell phone use banned, this means that an important source of Ukrainian losses is not being recorded.

Did you see the RU video of the RU soldier castrating a UKR prisoner ?

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/08 ... inian-pow/

Oh, was that not the war porn you meant ?

Mad Dog

War porn; Is that the centuries old Orc Army tradition of raping, robbing and murdering (Not necessarily in that order) of women, children and livestock (Not necessarily in that order).

Markus

I will correct this : the centuries old tradition of MOST armies of raping,robbing and murdering : Nanking was not the work of the Russians,neither was Srebrenica,or the raping,robbing and murdering in the Vendée,or the Sacco di Roma,or what did the Conquistadores, Mayas ,Incas, or the thousands of civilians murdered in August 1914., the thousands of French women raped during the war of 100 years..,and I could be wrong ,but did the Russians joined the war of 30 years where millions of Germans were slaughtered ?....

A very feeble defense of Russian war crimes. You try to turn the attention away from them. Does not change that they happened. And most armies do not rape and murder.

[Aida1]

1 We have the proofs of falsifications by the Ukrainians.

Great, show us which one of the tank photos is a complete fabrication.

Go on.

Go ahead.

Do it.

Get to work.

What are you waiting for ?

Mad Dog

proofs have been given

You never have.

[Aida1]

SP 152mm gun batteries



Buk systems

Its so thoughtful for the RU to send the UKR more equipment. Do you think the factory warranties still apply when UKR takes them ?

Mad Dog

Cult Icon is getting desperate. Certainly nice to see all that equipment being sent to be captured later.

[gebhk]

And most armies do not rape and murder.

Not most but all do. The scale of it, of course, very much depends on how much their commanders want to and are able to control their men.

[peeved]

War porn; Is that the centuries old Orc Army tradition of raping, robbing and murdering (Not necessarily in that order) of women, children and livestock (Not necessarily in that order).

I will correct this : the centuries old tradition of MOST armies of raping,robbing and murdering

1. Please provide proof of MOST armies having a centuries old tradition of raping,robbing and murdering.

Nanking was not the work of the Russians,neither was Srebrenica,or the raping,robbing and murdering in the Vendée,or the Sacco di Roma,or what did the Conquistadores, Mayas ,Incas, or the thousands of civilians murdered in August 1914., the thousands of French women raped during the war of 100 years..,and I could be wrong ,but did the Russians joined the war of 30 years where millions of Germans were slaughtered ?....

2. Your arguments are totally anachronistic. E.g. the prohibition of rape as a peremptory norm in international law is comparatively modern and of your examples only applicable to the former Yugoslavia case. Consequently in the latter there have been formal prosecutions and convictions in an international tribunal.

While the Russians' long time Mongol overlords were known mass-rapists that doesn't justify the medieval evil of Orc imperialists in modern time.

Markus

[ljadw]

Ukraine's ability to wage war is tightly knit to Western support. And the masses of Europe try to get informations to make a decision about their political opinion. Thus the media effort about Ukraine is of crucial importance -Ukraine can affford to lose 10.000 men, but can not afford to lose European support. If the Europeans cut a deal with Putin's Russia, simply denying access of the weapon deliveries, Ukraine is done for. If the Europeans don't want to deal with the 10+ million Ukrainian refugees, Ukraine is done for. The attitude towards these events is shaped by the media, and the media has to be fed with the proper material.

This is a big exaggeration ,this is what the media of the armaments industries are saying,for obvious reasons .
The outcome of the war was decided in the first week ,and there was no western support during the first week .
It is also questionable that the masses of Europe try to get informations ( from media they don't trust ! )to make a decision about their political opinion .A lot of these masses are not (no more ) interested in the stories of the war .
The media try to convince the population to give a part of their money ( remaining money ) to the politicians and the armament industry, but that does not mean that the weapons given to Ukraine are decisive . Is a Javelin (price 160000 Euro ) necessary to destroy a Russian tank ? Lockheed will say :yes . But ,can we trust Lockheed ?
It is very doubtful that Ukraine is done without US and European support,as no such support does not increase the Russian manpower :the OUN fought til 1949 against the Soviets,without western support .
The only way for the Russians to win is if they can install in Kiev an Ukrainian Lukachenko AND if this Lukachenko is accepted and supported by the majority of the Ukrainians .
And, I would not say that the attitude towards these events is shaped by the media, but that the media try to shape the attitude towards these events .
I am not convinced that they succeed .

[ljadw]

War porn; Is that the centuries old Orc Army tradition of raping, robbing and murdering (Not necessarily in that order) of women, children and livestock (Not necessarily in that order).

I will correct this : the centuries old tradition of MOST armies of raping,robbing and murdering

1. Please provide proof of MOST armies having a centuries old tradition of raping,robbing and murdering.

Nanking was not the work of the Russians,neither was Srebrenica,or the raping,robbing and murdering in the Vendée,or the Sacco di Roma,or what did the Conquistadores, Mayas ,Incas, or the thousands of civilians murdered in August 1914., the thousands of French women raped during the war of 100 years..,and I could be wrong ,but did the Russians joined the war of 30 years where millions of Germans were slaughtered ?....

2. Your arguments are totally anachronistic. E.g. the prohibition of rape as a peremptory norm in international law is comparatively modern and of your examples only applicable to the former Yugoslavia case. Consequently in the latter there have been formal prosecutions and convictions in an international tribunal.

While the Russians' long time Mongol overlords were known mass-rapists that doesn't justify the medieval evil of Orc imperialists in modern time.

Markus

Examples : Rome : the armies of Caesar were looting, raping, killing .
I did not justify or condemn .
The today wars in Africa are swarming with rapes .The Houthi militias in Yemen do rape women,so does ISIS, so did the army of Saddam,so does the army of his successors,so do the Iranians,the warriors in Myanmar, Sri Lanka,Sudan, Eritrea,etc ...
Saying that only the Russians are raping women is not correct .

[ljadw]

And :10 % of the reported cases of sexual violence in the Ukrainian war were the work of Ukrainians (soldiers/civilians ) .

[peeved]

War porn; Is that the centuries old Orc Army tradition of raping, robbing and murdering (Not necessarily in that order) of women, children and livestock (Not necessarily in that order).

I will correct this : the centuries old tradition of MOST armies of raping,robbing and murdering

1. Please provide proof of MOST armies having a centuries old tradition of raping,robbing and murdering.

Nanking was not the work of the Russians,neither was Srebrenica,or the raping,robbing and murdering in the Vendée,or the Sacco di Roma,or what did the Conquistadores, Mayas ,Incas, or the thousands of civilians murdered in August 1914., the thousands of French women raped during the war of 100 years..,and I could be wrong ,but did the Russians joined the war of 30 years where millions of Germans were slaughtered ?....

2. Your arguments are totally anachronistic. E.g. the prohibition of rape as a peremptory norm in international law is comparatively modern and of your examples only applicable to the former Yugoslavia case. Consequently in the latter there have been formal prosecutions and convictions in an international tribunal.

While the Russians' long time Mongol overlords were known mass-rapists that doesn't justify the medieval evil of Orc imperialists in modern time.

Examples : Rome : the armies of Caesar were looting, raping, killing .

An anachronism irrelevant to current state of international law.

Saying that only the Russians are raping women is not correct .

Exactly who and where made such a statement? I have not seen any suggestions that the Land, Air and Naval Forces of Evil are the only evil however absolute evil the evil Ivan imperialists may be.

Also finally please provide proof of MOST armies having a centuries old tradition of raping,robbing and murdering.

Markus

[johnwilliamhunter]

And did you see how it worked out? :roll: :roll:

Regards

Tom

Yes I did, thank you for your concern that I may not have.

[johnwilliamhunter]

The RU objective, clearly displayed by their actions, as well as Putin's speeches, was to regime change UKR into something more pliable, like Belarus.

Putin tried to do this on the cheap, shock-and-awe style, but the RU army couldnt, and cant deliver this.

What does Putin have now ? Hes trying to mobilize 300,000 soldiers (or is it more ?) and throw them into them fight. Can this help, given the severe structural deficiencies of the RU army ? Or will this just extend the conflict and drag down the world economy ?

Putin can end this ghastly circus tomorrow. Pull back to RU and end this.

Mad Dog

This is your personal opinion.

Yes, as we have seen, I didn't argue against that.

I know the answer to that as well as you or anyone can, that is I don't know, but I would remember that Russia is a country with a standing army of over a million people.

As can Zelensky.

[MarkF617]

Ljadw wrote:

[The outcome of the war was decided in the first week ,and there was no western support during the first week .]

This is incorrect, Britain started arms shipments before the invasion.

Thanks

Mark.

[Cult Icon]

With "Russian war crimes", some are real and some are tabloids invented by Ukrainian propaganda. This swoops over most people's heads when they read the news.