ljadw wrote:We know what Hitler said to Brauchitz and Halder : he said that he would lie to Spain .
We know that Spain did not receive the amounts of fertilizers that it demanded .24000 tons a week during 10 weeks .
We know that Spain did not receive monthly 117000 tons of fuels it demanded .
We know that Spain did not receive the 250000 tons of grains it demanded .Source for these figures is :The Economic relations between Nazi Germany and Franco Spain 1936-1945 Table 21 .
There was no prove that Spain needed these goods .
None of this has anything to do with your statement that "Spain knew that its demands could not be fulfillled and that's why they demanded them".
ljadw wrote:The Germans said that they could not deliver them .
But AFAIK they did not say that to Spain, so it has nothing to do with your statement that "Spain knew that its demands could not be fulfillled and that's why they demanded them".
Feel free to post evidence to the contrary.
ljadw wrote:We know and they knew that the amount of fuels they could expect and they received from Germany was insignificant : in 1940 the import of fuels from Germany was only 1,5 % of the total imports .In 1941 it was 0,2 %. It was not better for food .
No. They (Spain) knew that the amount of fuels they received from Germany was small. That in no way means they knew they could expect nothing more from Germany.
ljadw wrote:
If you know that you receive only peanuts of food and fuels from Germany ,while you get big amounts from the US ,and suddenly you ask for enormous deliveries of food and fuel,there is a hidden motive behind your demand :and the motive s that you know what the Germans want ,but you don't want i.
There are simpler motivations: for example, that as soon as you join Germany in the war the amounts received from the US are going to be zero, so it's only rational to ask for a substitute. Again, show the evidence that supports your statement.
ljadw wrote:Thus : you demand the impossible as condition for your entry in the war so that you can refuse it when the Germans will ask for it.
It's quite stupid to put a condition to refuse to do something that you offered to do when no one had asked you to do it. Spain offered to join the war before Germany asked, and from the first moment demanded "the impossible". It's not logical unless Spain did not want to joing the war even in that moment, and in that case it's not logical that Spain raised the question when Germany was thinking about other matters. That's why your argument is devoid of logic. You could easily solve the logical stalemate by showing your evidence that "Spain knew that its demands could not be fulfillled and that's why they demanded them", but it seems you have none.
ljadw wrote:In August 1939 the Italians did the same .With the same result : they had an excuse for not joining the war on German side .
And in 1940 the Italians joined the war without considering the German opinion, but Spain did not. So what? What the Italians did or didn't do in 1939 has nothing to do with Spain.
ljadw wrote:It is a truc as old as the hills .Saying : we are not ready, but if you give us what we need and demand, we can be ready in the far future ,means : we will never be ready .
What is as old as the hills is your habit in this forum: you post a statement and, when asked for evidence to back it up, you keep moving the goalposts and changing the subject. Remember the forum rules:
5. Back up your claims
[...]
- If another member challenge one of your claims, you must cite a source for your claim.
- If you make a claim that is obviously controversial, you should cite a source immediately.
ljadw wrote:If the Germans said : yes,we will give what you want, Spain would invent aan other excuse .
You have failed to prove Spain used an excuse, so you will have a a hard time proving that Spain would invent "another excuse".
ljadw wrote:It is keeping up appearances, very popular in politics .
It's what you are doing in this thread, actually.
ljadw wrote:And it was the same for the Germans : if they could deliver or if Spain asked less,that will not mean that there would be a deal .
And here goes ljadw, again moving the goalposts.
The issue I want you to adress is: "Spain knew that its demands could not be fulfillled and that's why they demanded them."
So for the umpteenth time I ask you: what is your evidence that "Spain knew that its demands could not be fulfillled and that's why they demanded them"?