High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

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Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#721

Post by Gastolli » 03 Nov 2022, 23:54

alcius wrote:
03 Nov 2022, 12:35
I think he refers to Leutnant Hans Joachim Scholz, who is credited with 48 kills on numerous sites.
Hello Antonio.

O.k., one after another:

Oblt. d.R. Wilhelm Knauth is well known, I don't have to add anything I think.

Lt. Hans-Joachim Scholz: it's impossible that he had 48 tank kills.
He arrived at s.Pz.Abt. 505 just on 4.1.1944 and was heavily wounded on 5.2.1944. One month of action, o.k., but he got Verwundetenabzeichen, Panzerkampfabzeichen and Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse posthumously, so for sure not a high ranking Panzer ace.

His Frontbewährung was with Pz.Rgt. 29 in 1942, afterwards he attended the officers course and than just was used in Germany (replacement units), before coming over to 505.

He's mentioned on 3.2., 4.2. and 5.2.1944 and during that period up to 3 Tigers destroyed 18 tanks together, so I would estimate his tank kills at roughly 5 to 10 or so.

Unteroffizier, Richtschütze mit 48 Panzerabschüssen
This COULD be Uffz. Hermann Werner from 2./s.Pz.Abt. 505. I don't know if he really was a Richtschütze or tank driver or tank commander, but Uffz. Werner got the Deutsches Kreuz in Gold in April 1944 and that of course would be a perfect fit - just from the timeline - for this newspaper report from January 1944!

Just a guess ...

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#722

Post by Gastolli » 04 Nov 2022, 00:47

alcius wrote:
03 Nov 2022, 12:25
Feldwebel Kutzner - 10 panzer kills
Ah, this is a new one for me, thank you :-)

Unfortunately I have no details on this man.

Also, Pz.Jg.Abt. 33 ..., that would be a perfect fit, as Major Meder was Kommandeur Pz.Jg.Abt. 33, but, 15. Pz.Gren.Div. during that time was employed in the Venlo area, not Moerdijk. If not part of the Abteilung were used there, not within the Division sector. That could be, of course, but I'm not sure about that.

10 tank kills sounds more like a Jagdpanzer IV commander than a towed Pak on the other hand ...

Hm, difficult.

Oliver


alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#723

Post by alcius » 04 Nov 2022, 15:53

Thanks, Oliver
I would like to go back to Scholz,
in all panzer aces sites he is named, as Leutnant Paul Scholz with 46, 48 or 46 +2 damaged, also on this site Axis History.

viewtopic.php?t=227943

"A Tiger of the 2nd company of the s.Pz.-Abt. 505, at the beginning of February 1944, during the fighting in the Toporino sector. Its Commander was Leutnant Scholz, who took part in the destruction of 46 T 34s in this sector between the 3rd and the 10th February 1944. " That's what I got from page 63 from the book "Tiger I On The Eastern Front" by Jean Restayn. Who knows how many more Soviet tanks that Scholz would destroy apart from the forty-six he destroyed.

is it the same, did he destroy them or with other Tigers?


Antonio

Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#724

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 05 Nov 2022, 04:35

Gentlemen,

Do you have information about Rudolf Max Urbanczyk, who born in 1915, about his number of tank kills? He was a German Cross in Gold holder and his unit was 1./He.Stu.Gesch.Brig.203. His rank was Oberwachtmeister, He was killed in action.

Edward L. Hsiao

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#725

Post by Gastolli » 05 Nov 2022, 18:30

alcius wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 15:53
I would like to go back to Scholz,
...
is it the same, did he destroy them or with other Tigers?
Hello Antonio,

it's a simple thing I would say: 46 tanks is the score of the whole Abteilung 505 for the mentioned time period!

Although, it's mentioned in the diary of s.Pz.Abt. 505, for example that Lt. Scholz on 3.2.1944 reported the destruction of 10 T34 ...
it just meant that his Kampfgruppe of 3, later 2 Tigers destroyed 10 tanks. It's NOT his personal score.

And, as I wrote before, Leutnant Hans-Joachim Scholz "just" got the EK 2nd class after his death, that alone is an indication that he haven't had many tanks to his credit.

Also, there's no Leutnant Paul Scholz with s.Pz.Abt. 505, Hans-Joachim Scholz was the only officer with that name with that unit up to August 1944 (the officer roster of the Abteilung is well known).

Don't trust everything in the WWW :?

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#726

Post by Gastolli » 05 Nov 2022, 18:32

Edward L. Hsiao wrote:
05 Nov 2022, 04:35
Rudolf Max Urbanczyk, 1./He.Stu.Gesch.Brig.203
Hello Edward,

apart from his award, I don't know anything about this person ...

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#727

Post by alcius » 05 Nov 2022, 19:01

Thanks Oliver for the advice

Two pak aces in the same Newspapers

https://zeitpunkt.nrw/ulbbn/periodical/ ... +panzer%22

Obergefreite Heinz Munch – 14/Gren.Rgt.234 - pak – 10 kills
Gefreiten Heinrich (Rikkert) Rickert – Pz.Jg.Abt.260 – pak – 11 kills

Antonio

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#728

Post by Gastolli » 06 Nov 2022, 15:33

alcius wrote:
05 Nov 2022, 19:01
Two pak aces in the same Newspapers
Obergefreite Heinz Munch – 14/Gren.Rgt.234 - pak – 10 kills
Gefreiten Heinrich (Rikkert) Rickert – Pz.Jg.Abt.260 – pak – 11 kills
Hello Antonio,

thank you, new to me.

Münch got the Ehrenblattspange on 7.9.1943, he was a gun commander
Rickert got the Anerkennungsurkunde on 27.8.1943, he was a gunner with 2./Pz.Jg.Abt. 260.

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#729

Post by alcius » 07 Nov 2022, 12:04

Das Reich Stug with 34 kill rings
Does anyone know who the Stug commander is
https://grossgrislylivejournalcom.trans ... _tr_pto=sc
das reich stug.jpg
Antiìonio

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#730

Post by Gastolli » 07 Nov 2022, 20:13

alcius wrote:
07 Nov 2022, 12:04
Das Reich Stug with 34 kill rings
Hm, nice pic :o

I think, this Sturmgeschütz has the markings of 1. Kompanie (1. Batterie) on the front.

If it's really a "Das Reich" Sturmgeschütz (?), than it could be the vehicle of Ostuf. Roland Paul:
I have a note, for sure it's from Mark C. Yerger's book on the GCiG holders of DR, that he during 6 months in 1943 destroyed 37 tanks, with a further 3 tanks destroyed in July 1944 while he was with 3./SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 2 "DR" - so 40 tank kills at least for him.

This pic of the Sturmgeschütz could well be have been his mount, I think, IF it's really 1./SS-Stug.Abt. 2.

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#731

Post by alcius » 08 Nov 2022, 11:39

Thanks Oliver
I have that book, and I was thinking of Ronald Paul too, he's the only one I know with that high score.
I wanted a confirmation.

Antonio

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#732

Post by alcius » 09 Nov 2022, 17:55

Feldwebel Heinz Weller - S.Pz.Abt.502 -
later 1./schw. PzAbt 510, 19.10.1944 - Panzerkampfabzeichen 50
weller.jpg
weller.jpg (54.48 KiB) Viewed 284 times

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#733

Post by alcius » 09 Nov 2022, 17:56

German medium tank 'Panther' and its commander, Ofhr. Dittmar, 2nd Company Panzer Regiment Division escort Fuhrer ('Führer-Begleit-Division'). Visible arm-tape 'Greater Germany'. The picture was taken in the village Langenёls (Langenöls, now - the Polish city of Olszyna), 16 kilometers south-east of the n / Lauban where on March 10, the division was sent to rest and recharge after heavy fighting.
dittmar.jpg

alcius
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Location: italy

Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#734

Post by alcius » 09 Nov 2022, 18:02

Operation "Zitadelle" July 1943: The Decisive Battle of ... - Pagina 114 Franz Kurowski · 2003
krause.png
krause.png (7.25 KiB) Viewed 284 times

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

#735

Post by Gastolli » 09 Nov 2022, 22:26

alcius wrote:
09 Nov 2022, 17:55
Feldwebel Heinz Weller - S.Pz.Abt.502 -
later 1./schw. PzAbt 510
That's great Antonio,

a type of document I haven't seen before, but it MUST exist, because you have several tank commanders and gunners with multiple units over the course of some years. How one should be able to keep track with the (claimed) tank kills? They for sure needed documents like this one ...

In this case Fw. Weller was a member of s.Pz.Abt. 510 already, b.t.w. he got his PKA II on 19.10.1944 and the PKA III on 04.12.1944.

His certificate says "vom 23. Juli 1944 bis 23. November 1944":
s.Pz.Abt. 510 arrived on the frontline on 23.7.1944, that's right, and I think it's highly probable that Fw. Weller was wounded on 23.11.1944 as the company was employed there a little bit further, before being sent to Germany (Heinz Weller rejoined the company there).

On 23.11.1944 his 3./510 obviously was in action as his Kompaniechef Oblt. Helpup was rewarded with the Ehrenblattspange for action on 23.11.44 at Putni in the 32. Inf.Div. sector!

I'm not sure if Heinz Weller was a member of 1./510 in July 1944 and than changed to 3./510, but he defenitely was with the 3. Kompanie in the autumn of 1944 ...

Oliver

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