An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

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AnchorSteam
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An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by AnchorSteam » 18 Nov 2022 21:25

I know it is a little late for Haloween stuff, but....

This is just a bit of extreme what happens when boredom and a desire for some strange entertainment meet in a dark alley…. but at the end I will also show why this also has an Axis flavor to it.
The Zombie Apocalypse craze has just about run its course, at long last, but I was thinking about one of the few good things that came from that genre; the book called “World War Z”. (the BOOK, not the odd movie that claimed to be based on it)
The idea occurred to me; what would be a top-notch anti-Zombie military unit?

In the book, the USA turned the tide when there were only 70 million Americans left and they were backed-up as far as the West coast of the lower 48 states. They did this with a military adapted to the war that they were fighting, with limited resources and even more limited manufacturing ability (the only operational cannon-foundry in the US is located in Buffalo,. New York, for example, far from California).
What the Author came up with was this;
All straight-leg infantry, and that was pretty much all. The troops were given bite-proof uniforms that were apparently made of stiff denim and retained the blue color because camouflage was deemed to be a frill when fighting the Zombies.
The weapon was the S.I.R, or Standard Infantry Rifle. From the description it was a beefy sort of Mini-14 that was sturdy enough to be used as a club when empty and could only fire single-shot. A lot of ammo could perhaps be carried, but another piece of kit was a combination shovel/ax/mattock that was meant to be THE close-quarters weapon.
Other personal attached to the unit were comms and medics, and the later were of particular importance. The “Doc” was there to monitor the mental health of the troops, as well as the other kinds. He was authorized to pull any soldier out of the line at any time, and for whatever duration he saw fit.
How well did that work? Well, in the book, by the end of the story there were only two original members of the Platoon still active; the trooper doing the narration, and the Doc. But, somehow, they had won, and in fact made it all the way from Arizona to New York City…. on foot.
Apparently, it did take a couple of years.


The only mention of Supporting Arms was in relation to LMOE situations they ran into.
LMOE means Last Man On Earth, a term for isolated survivors that went bonkers under the stress of their… situation. There were some communities that survived and welcomed liberation, as you would expect. However, there were a few that did not react in a sane or even reasonable way to re-integration with the US. The narrator says that the only time he saw tanks was when they were deployed towards the Black Hills of South Dakota to tame a very stubborn group of autonomy-minded folk.

So, let’s take this at the level of the Platoon, and be judgmental.

Pros;
Cheap. It is conceivable that an unbroken line of such troops could be deployed across a very wide area. Wide enough to actually cleanse a continent? Perhaps.
Logistic support is incredibly easy. One caliber of ammo, one set of replacement parts for everything, food and some medicine is all there is to it. That, and shelter, apparently all-weather tents and stoves is what they were reliant on year-round. And the walking pace of the advance meant that you could use a Mule-train to take care of all of it, if you had to.
All those infantry will be very handy when it comes to the nastiest kind of operation in a war like this; the clearing of an Urban area infested with the undead. This is especially true if you want to preserve as much infrastructure as possible.
The semi-armored infantry is a brilliant idea, and sure to be a morale-booster, but see below …

Cons;
The 5.56mm/.233 round defines the absolute limit of the striking power of this unit. The idea was to engage the swarms of Zombies in a Napoleonic line and simply pick them off as they charged, as Zombies do. While certainly the most economical way to fight, it is a very inflexible way to fight a war, especially in an era when very little is remembered about that kind of warfare, even among most officers of the modern military. Formation fighting has not been practiced for generations, but that is exactly what this kind of unit will need to be highly proficient in.
The reliance on foot-bound infantry limits mobility to a Medieval level. It will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for this unit to react quickly to an emergency. They will never be able to do so in a timely way.
Emergencies include somewhat distant unit being over-run, the unit itself suddenly being in danger of being surrounded, or an unexpected threat coming out of “no-where”. Also, if an opportunity presents itself for a rescue or to seize something vital, the unit can only take advantage of it at a walking pace, and can only strike at targets a few hundred yards away.
The armor will also limit their mobility, both long-term and in a close combat. While bite-proof, it is not bullet-proof (friendly fire), does not prevent injury from other sources (such as broken bones) and any sort of armor is known to be a problem in hot or cold weather.

While efficient in terms of resources, this platoon represents a brutal and time-consuming way to fight this war. It is, however, feasible.
Overall, I give it a 50 out of a possible 100, and this is our baseline.


My challenge to you;
Build your own platoon. In my experience, the maximum size of a Platoon would be 50 men or 6 vehicles, or a combination of those.
TRY to use some AXIS equipment if you can. Mark Felton has recently made some vids about Axis weaponry in use after WW2, and there was a surprising amount of it out there for a long time. Some of it still is…. and I will be using some it for my own Platoon. :milwink:

Yes, I have one of my own, actually a random collection that I will explain in detail, and I will give you a chance to pick it apart once I have had a chance to type it all out. That one will be for the folks that submit one of their own to judge, as I will judge yours.

Are you game?

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Re: An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by T. A. Gardner » 18 Nov 2022 22:45

Once again, the wrong idea is applied to a problem. Against zombies in hordes, your weapon of choice is:

Image

Or something similar.

Back it up with some foot troops whose purpose is mostly to just take care of anything the bulldozer(s) / loader(s) / etc. didn't completely kill off. The operator of such a machine can wade into the zombie horde and crush it without worrying about much more than how long it will take to hose all the bits of the machine later. The cab is locked and impossible for zombies to get at during operation so the operator is completely safe.

Whether you crush them under the tracks, decapitate them with the blade, scrape them into a pile and run over them, the zombies are done.

Need more diesel than is available? Render down the zombies for their biofuel potential... Sort of an alternate use for soylent green...

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Re: An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by paulrward » 18 Nov 2022 23:57

Hello All :

To Mr. T.A. Gardner: Your Dozer idea is good, but you need to take off the Blade,
and attach one of these:


Mulcher.jpg

It Slices! It Dices! It Juliennes! It makes perfect Garden Mulch !
And just look at these luscious, crispy Fries !



Respectfully

Paul R. Ward
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Re: An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by AnchorSteam » 19 Nov 2022 18:22

T. A. Gardner wrote:
18 Nov 2022 22:45
Once again, the wrong idea is applied to a problem. Against zombies in hordes, your weapon of choice is:

Back it up with some foot troops whose purpose is mostly to just take care of anything the bulldozer(s) / loader(s) / etc. didn't completely kill off. The operator of such a machine can wade into the zombie horde and crush it without worrying about much more than how long it will take to hose all the bits of the machine later. The cab is locked and impossible for zombies to get at during operation so the operator is completely safe.

Whether you crush them under the tracks, decapitate them with the blade, scrape them into a pile and run over them, the zombies are done.

Need more diesel than is available? Render down the zombies for their biofuel potential... Sort of an alternate use for soylent green...
Peos;
Full marks for the instant utilization of commonly available items, andfor a logistical train that demands nothing but fuel... and whatever the unspecified number of "foot troops" require.

Cons;
Where to start?
I don't see those cages being as secure as you think. People can and have fought their way through amazing things, and Zombies are not people anymore, stronger and immune to pain and exhaustion they will eventually get through. And while the good view proided by the glass panels is useful, the drivers may be overwheled by the sight of all those Zombies pilling on and lose their minds. They may also quickly lose their bearings and end up in a ditch or a basement. They are visible, and will attract attention.

The riflemen are another issue. How far back will they have to hang to stay safe, and what is their effective range when it comes to picking off the Z's climbing on the cab of that thing? That will take some very tricky shooting; the cab is not bullet-proof, nor is the Bulldozer itself.

Plowing into the midst of a horde would allow you to maximize the destruction, but it is also a high-risk move that puts very SLOW vehicles in a win-or-die situation as your S.O.P.
Reaction time is also poor when it comes to unexpected situations, and the value of a Platoon like this is minimal in a confrontation with rogue human elements (LMOE).

Sorry, but I have to give this one a 30 overall.

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Re: An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by AnchorSteam » 19 Nov 2022 18:32

paulrward wrote:
18 Nov 2022 23:57
Hello All :

To Mr. T.A. Gardner: Your Dozer idea is good, but you need to take off the Blade,
and attach one of these:



Mulcher.jpg


It Slices! It Dices! It Juliennes! It makes perfect Garden Mulch !
And just look at these luscious, crispy Fries !



Respectfully

Paul R. Ward
Well, that certainly seems better than pushing them all into a box and assuming the Z's won't just do the human ladder thing...

However - Hobson's choice; so you go as individuals free to manuver, and free to get flanked with a driver that is even more vulnerable than what was up above? Do you advance in echelon to cover a nice broad front..... ah, and if you do that, how to you train your drivers to act in a coordinated way?
Bulldozers running into each other is just one of those things.
One iof THOSE things running into another? Wow, you might just see the mechanical version of a feeding frenzy right there.

While mobility is better, and the potential for a kill-count is astronomical, I don't see it working as a Platoon, or the basis of a Field Army. Too specialized and reliant on the notion that the Z's will do what you want them too, again.

I rate this as a slight improvement on the concept above; 36

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Re: An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by T. A. Gardner » 20 Nov 2022 02:13

AnchorSteam wrote:
19 Nov 2022 18:22
T. A. Gardner wrote:
18 Nov 2022 22:45
Once again, the wrong idea is applied to a problem. Against zombies in hordes, your weapon of choice is:

Back it up with some foot troops whose purpose is mostly to just take care of anything the bulldozer(s) / loader(s) / etc. didn't completely kill off. The operator of such a machine can wade into the zombie horde and crush it without worrying about much more than how long it will take to hose all the bits of the machine later. The cab is locked and impossible for zombies to get at during operation so the operator is completely safe.

Whether you crush them under the tracks, decapitate them with the blade, scrape them into a pile and run over them, the zombies are done.

Need more diesel than is available? Render down the zombies for their biofuel potential... Sort of an alternate use for soylent green...
Peos;
Full marks for the instant utilization of commonly available items, andfor a logistical train that demands nothing but fuel... and whatever the unspecified number of "foot troops" require.

Cons;
Where to start?
I don't see those cages being as secure as you think. People can and have fought their way through amazing things, and Zombies are not people anymore, stronger and immune to pain and exhaustion they will eventually get through. And while the good view proided by the glass panels is useful, the drivers may be overwheled by the sight of all those Zombies pilling on and lose their minds. They may also quickly lose their bearings and end up in a ditch or a basement. They are visible, and will attract attention.

The riflemen are another issue. How far back will they have to hang to stay safe, and what is their effective range when it comes to picking off the Z's climbing on the cab of that thing? That will take some very tricky shooting; the cab is not bullet-proof, nor is the Bulldozer itself.

Plowing into the midst of a horde would allow you to maximize the destruction, but it is also a high-risk move that puts very SLOW vehicles in a win-or-die situation as your S.O.P.
Reaction time is also poor when it comes to unexpected situations, and the value of a Platoon like this is minimal in a confrontation with rogue human elements (LMOE).

Sorry, but I have to give this one a 30 overall.
My guess is you have never owned a backhoe or other heavy machinery. The zombies aren't getting over the tracks on a bulldozer while it's moving, even slowly. That's certain death. That just makes grinding them that much easier if they try. The cab on a larger machine is well over 7' (2 meters) off the ground. With a wire cage, or militarizing it some with armor on the cab, they aren't getting in. The cab itself is an EROPS design that can survive the vehicle being flipped over on it. Zombies don't use tools so they're SOL trying to take down a large bulldozer.
If sat nav still works (like GPS) bulldozers today are equipped with this to allow accurate earthmoving on projects.

You could even go with something like this maybe a bit more modified where there is a secure firing platform around the cab with slots or fixed weapons like machineguns that the gunners use on any zombies that get too close. That would only take say, 4 to 6 men and a driver. Add radio to 2-way communications. The driver and four gunners could be placed in an enlarged cab with armor as an alternative, although that might get a bit noisy if they're firing.

Image

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T. A. Gardner
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Re: An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by T. A. Gardner » 20 Nov 2022 02:52

paulrward wrote:
18 Nov 2022 23:57
Hello All :
To Mr. T.A. Gardner: Your Dozer idea is good, but you need to take off the Blade,
and attach one of these:

Mulcher.jpg
It Slices! It Dices! It Juliennes! It makes perfect Garden Mulch !
And just look at these luscious, crispy Fries !

Respectfully

Paul R. Ward
For those wanting more precision... The boom mounted trimmer / mower... If there are too many for sawing down, the boom can sweep everything it hits moving horizontally down in one sweep.

Image

This version allows head lopping with precision to almost a 20 ft radius! Put one on each flank of a mulcher or three...

Or, if you want to do it at a distance, something like this

Image

Now there's some beatdown power! And, even better, it comes with remote control!

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Re: An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by AnchorSteam » 20 Nov 2022 04:20

T. A. Gardner wrote:
20 Nov 2022 02:13
My guess is you have never owned a backhoe or other heavy machinery. The zombies aren't getting over the tracks on a bulldozer while it's moving, even slowly. That's certain death. That just makes grinding them that much easier if they try. The cab on a larger machine is well over 7' (2 meters) off the ground. With a wire cage, or militarizing it some with armor on the cab, they aren't getting in. The cab itself is an EROPS design that can survive the vehicle being flipped over on it. Zombies don't use tools so they're SOL trying to take down a large bulldozer.
If sat nav still works (like GPS) bulldozers today are equipped with this to allow accurate earthmoving on projects.

You could even go with something like this maybe a bit more modified where there is a secure firing platform around the cab with slots or fixed weapons like machineguns that the gunners use on any zombies that get too close. That would only take say, 4 to 6 men and a driver. Add radio to 2-way communications. The driver and four gunners could be placed in an enlarged cab with armor as an alternative, although that might get a bit noisy if they're firing.

Image
Now, that is just incredible. Hell, I have to wonder if it was photo-shopped just for this occasion!
And this reminds me of how useful it would be to have vehicles for clearing obstacles in a broken world like one would be for a Zombie apocalypse.
I do still have doubts about it's invulnerability, because there always seems to be a vulnerable hose or cotter-pin or somehting. Just turn a gang of Middle-Schoolers lose on that thing for half an hour and imagine what the could do.
And while I have never owned any, I have seen plenty of these things in action. They steer like a WW1 tank; go straight, stop, pivot or skid steer, stop, go forward straight until you have to repeat that sequence. I think it would be frustrating and time-consuming when dealing with moving targets, even when they are being fully effective.

Or, maybe they are just the right thing, for certain situations. I really am impressed with that thing!
However, this is a challenge for unit builders.
To make a good jugement, I would need to see how you would organize them into a Platoon, and what kind of mission/terrain you would commit them to.
Would it just be a handful of them working together, or would other vehicles and/or men be involved?

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Re: An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by T. A. Gardner » 20 Nov 2022 18:04

AnchorSteam wrote:
20 Nov 2022 04:20
Now, that is just incredible. Hell, I have to wonder if it was photo-shopped just for this occasion!
And this reminds me of how useful it would be to have vehicles for clearing obstacles in a broken world like one would be for a Zombie apocalypse.
I do still have doubts about it's invulnerability, because there always seems to be a vulnerable hose or cotter-pin or somehting. Just turn a gang of Middle-Schoolers lose on that thing for half an hour and imagine what the could do.
And while I have never owned any, I have seen plenty of these things in action. They steer like a WW1 tank; go straight, stop, pivot or skid steer, stop, go forward straight until you have to repeat that sequence. I think it would be frustrating and time-consuming when dealing with moving targets, even when they are being fully effective.

Or, maybe they are just the right thing, for certain situations. I really am impressed with that thing!
However, this is a challenge for unit builders.
To make a good jugement, I would need to see how you would organize them into a Platoon, and what kind of mission/terrain you would commit them to.
Would it just be a handful of them working together, or would other vehicles and/or men be involved?
Well, owning a backhoe makes you more aware of what machinery can and can't do. That is a real, actual vehicle the Israelis use for clearing obstacles and taking down buildings in the Palestinian areas. The US Army uses similar machines in combat theaters.

Image

What you want for this scenario is a unit of several bulldozers--big and noisy so they attract the zombies--backed up by a couple of tracked excavators with boom mowers or the like on them running behind the bulldozers on each flank. Their job is to sweep the flanks clear by simply using their boom and fit it has some cutting attachment on the end all the better.
If you want, behind these vehicles are a row of tracked APC or other vehicle that can carry troops and supplies.

The unit acts as a moving square (like a Napoleonic square of infantry). If these operate out of a fixed fortified base, they go out, squash and decimate zombies, are capable of leveling buildings like a home or small strip mall, or simply move to some location for reconnaissance and return. If a vehicle breaks down during one of these sweeps, you leave it and come back later with the parts and mechanic(s) to fix it. It isn't as if the zombies will mess with a broken-down machine.

If the base is to be mobile, the unit moves to the new location and creates one that is reasonably zombie proof. The excavators dig deep ditches the bulldozers clear and then pile up that dirt to form a wall. The accompanying troops string razor wire or other obstacles around the position. The vehicles have work lights and flood lights to light up the area around the fortified encampment making it easier to deal with the stray zombie at night.

This way the ammo goes a lot further. Most of the common maintenance items you need to service the vehicles can be gotten at any auto parts store (like grease and oil) while diesel is available at many gas stations. Bring a generator to run the pump and make it easy. Unlike gasoline, diesel doesn't go bad on you.

Think of the whole thing as a Roman legion on the march doing the tortoise thing.

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Re: An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by AnchorSteam » 20 Nov 2022 20:02

T. A. Gardner wrote:
20 Nov 2022 18:04
Well, owning a backhoe makes you more aware of what machinery can and can't do. That is a real, actual vehicle the Israelis use for clearing obstacles and taking down buildings in the Palestinian areas. The US Army uses similar machines in combat theaters.
Right, I had a feeling it was real all along, but it still amazes me. Who would have thought that dealing with Palestinians and Zombies would be so similar?
T. A. Gardner wrote:
20 Nov 2022 18:04
This way the ammo goes a lot further. Most of the common maintenance items you need to service the vehicles can be gotten at any auto parts store (like grease and oil) while diesel is available at many gas stations. Bring a generator to run the pump and make it easy. Unlike gasoline, diesel doesn't go bad on you.

Think of the whole thing as a Roman legion on the march doing the tortoise thing.
So living off the land as much as possible makes you logistic situation much easier... as long as luck is with you. Good idea, and it does seem like a viable concept, one that puts it up arond the baseline. I just can't give a firm number without a TO&E in line with what I listed in the OP.
And the OP might have been too long.
But it is hard to see this as an independent Platoon, more like Company or Battalion support.

I didn't know that about Diesel. No wonder the WEF-types want to banish it.

--- I will put up a Platoon of my own, just to show what I am tlking about here.

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Re: An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by T. A. Gardner » 20 Nov 2022 22:41

As a TO&E I'd say something the heavy assault company for high density zombie areas would be three to five bulldozers, two excavators (tracked) with brush cutter attachments, if available. The unit also has sufficient 18 wheeled tractor trailers to load and move all of this when necessary.
It also has a security platoon attached with 18 to 36 men armed with small arms riding in either protected trucks or APC's for dealing with individual threats and small numbers of zombies.
Three such companies make up a heavy assault battalion that adds a mechanic section for maintenance and a drone / balloon section with TV cameras, etc., for reconnaissance.

Each company would have a trailer mounted generator with them for power, along with a supply section to gather up fuel and other resources.

This way, the unit has the ability to scout around where it is for say a distance of several miles and figure out where the zombies are and aren't. That then allows them to plan clearing operations from a secure base they establish before beginning those operations. The drones would have some means of causing zombies to come towards them and out in the open. A flying drone really is hardly at risk of being taken down by zombies on the ground, but this allows for a more accurate count of those present not to mention helping to group them for destruction. Once the larger herds are cleared by the heavy assault units, you send in a lighter force on foot to deal with stragglers so for that you have a second unit equipped to deal with zombies a few at a time.

Once an area around the base say for 10 miles is cleared of zombies, you pack up, move to a new location, and do it all over again.

This would be the process for urban areas from a smallish town to a large city.

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Re: An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by Richard Anderson » 21 Nov 2022 00:45

Yep, the what if section finally jumped the shark.
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Re: An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by AnchorSteam » 22 Nov 2022 06:56

Richard Anderson wrote:
21 Nov 2022 00:45
Yep, the what if section finally jumped the shark.
Still the most active section on the site! :milwink:

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Re: An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by AnchorSteam » 22 Nov 2022 07:22

T. A. Gardner wrote:
20 Nov 2022 22:41
As a TO&E I'd say something the heavy assault company for high density zombie areas would be three to five bulldozers, two excavators (tracked) with brush cutter attachments, if available. The unit also has sufficient 18 wheeled tractor trailers to load and move all of this when necessary.
It also has a security platoon attached with 18 to 36 men armed with small arms riding in either protected trucks or APC's for dealing with individual threats and small numbers of zombies.
Three such companies make up a heavy assault battalion that adds a mechanic section for maintenance and a drone / balloon section with TV cameras, etc., for reconnaissance.
....
Yeah, that's a Company/Battalion alright!
And Engineer unit, in fact. Nicely thought-out and it does appear to work, but....
I just don't know if I can judge something like that. What I do see is an efficent unit, but also an inflexible one. The "runners" and "Ninja" types could play havoc with a group like that. IMHO, you could use some back-up


Here is what got me started with this;

My own platoon is a RANDOM collection that I will try to justify here.
It may sound silly, but staring at a little shelf full of models is how I came up with this idea in the first place. I got back into modeling a decade ago, for a little while, and about half of these were gifts. I am too old to do any more now with my eyes and my hands the way they are, but anyway…. I think I have accidentally accumulated a really good anti-Zombie platoon here.
And also one that shows the whole Z-pocalypse is a non-starter in a world with AFVs.

There is, working from latest to smallest; a Tiger II, an M-3 Grant, a Wirbelwind, and SWS Nebelwerfer, an Amphibious jeep, and a Weisel light tank, plus half a dozen infantry. I will go down the line to show how they form a good team for this kind of thing.

Tiger II
At first, this would seem to be the most ridiculous vehicle for this kind of thing. However, it is a good thing to have for several reasons;
1) it would be very intimidating to any LMOE (remember them?) and would require some very serious/modern Anti-Tank weapons to stop. Major AT weapons are the least useful when dealing with a Zombie menace, so this would be an important factor.
2) the Tiger can strike at pinpoint targets over 2km. away, nothing in the rest of this platoon can do that. This could be critical if the Z’s are just a wall away from some people you are trying to rescue and time is running out.
3) this beast can wade right into a horde and have very little to worry about…. unless the driver panics and tries to sprint blindly out of there. The Z’s can be hosed off by MG or even 20mm fire without any risk of harming important systems on the tank, and it even has a way to clear them itself; the NbKW 92mm mortar built into the turret roof.
4) The thing is roomy, practically indescribable and has room for good radios. Leaving just a little of the ammo out makes room for it to become a Command tank even with WW2 radio gear.
How much ammo? This type of tank carried 72 rounds for the cannon and 5,850 for the two MGs. THAT is a hell of a lot, by any standards. However, this next guy puts it to shame.


M-3 Grant (the British version)
This is the “brawler” of the unit when it comes to dealing with a horde of Z’s. It lacks the massive weight and wide tracks of the Tiger, but it more than makes up for that with it’s versatile firepower…. as it did in Burma right up to the end of WW2.
As most people know, that firepower consists of a 75mm cannon in the hull and a 37mm in the turret, plus three MGs. What is not so well-known is that 75mm has a pretty good arc of fire; 15 degrees to either side. The Stug III only had 10 degrees left or right.
The 75 fires an excellent H.E. round, but the 37mm can fire canister which really made a name for itself when it came to stopping a Banzai charge. The 37 has a co-ax, of course, but there are 2 more MGs fixed forward for the driver to use. That didn’t work out so well, but the Grant never had to face a horde of Z’s. So in this case….
… and wow, does this tank ever have the ammo to blow on experiments!
For the 75mm; 46. That is a respectable amount, and for the 37mm you have a whopping 178 round of …. I dunno, canister, H.E. and maybe a handful of A.P. just in case. But what blows my mind is for the MGs you have 9200 rounds of belted 30-06.
I hope they also carry spare barrels.
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/us/m3_lee_grant.php

The Wirblewind is in a class by itself, but it does have a critical flaw.
This Flakpanzer has a turret with a quad 20mm and in the hull is an MG 34 (with 1350 rounds). This thing has 3,200 rounds of ammo for the 20mm guns! The catch is, the guns are not belt-fed, but have 10-rounds box magazines that have to be constantly changed out. I don’t see this as all that bad a thing because it will prevent them from burning through all that ammo too quickly. It will also encourage them to hang back and not get too badly mixed up with the tanks.
This comes back to that flaw; the Wirbelwind has an open-toped turret, and it does not look very hard to climb.
Even so, the limitation a magazine feed-system places on you can be see as a limit of eighty x 40-round bursts. Like the Grant, that is a freakishly high amount of firepower between visits to the depot. By comparison I have been informed that the ZSU-23-4 was capable of about ten x 50-round bursts.
This is the ultimate meat-chopper, but beware of it’s limits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirbelwind



The SWS mount for the Nebelwerfer is a 10-barreled MRLS firing very basic 150mm rockets. While powerful, the rockets are unsophisticated and lack the modern options like cluster-bombs … but they would still be very impressive to the hardest of the hard-core LMOE you are likely to meet out there.
The best part is, this SWS version has room for 50 re-loads, which means 6 x ten-round barrages if you go into action with the tubes loaded.
The bad parts are; the crew has to expose themselves to re-load, or to work the MG-34 on the roof (2,000 rounds). The SWS is also slow, slower than even the Tiger, I think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0cDPaiEDK4


So, we have 2 tanks that can plow straight in, and 2 x AFVs hanging back for support so far. But there is more;

The Ford GPA os not an ideal vehicle. It has a bad reputation in some circles and the Schwimwagon was superior in most ways. However, having a reasonably quiet machine (our only non-tracked on) and an amphibian is going to be very handy. No, it is not armored or even enclosed, but it is a hell of a lot faster than even the “Runner” variety of Zs.
It is also true that if we are thinking of a large-scale advance, remember that Z’s tend to go around in packs. This means there will be vast areas of countryside where there are none at all. A light vehicle that can cross water barriers could be very useful.


And then there is the Wiesel, the only modern vehicle and a funny one. It was developed to give the Paratroops of the Bundeswehr an armored bun0carrier. The first four made were wrecked by air-drop tests, so they are deployed in CH-53 Helicopters …. two at a time even!
The only tank ever made that can ride inside a Helo should be light enough to do some good off-road scouting even if there are some sketchy bridges or soft ground out there.
The only weapon for this one is a 20mm cannon, overkill perhaps but it can work as a sniper if need be, and this one has modern sights for night ops.
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/ ... el-awc.php

To round it out, there is an odd little assortment of Infantry.
For room-brooms/close encounters, we have a couple of old-style SMG men. One is a Stormtrooper with a MP-40, 4 mags + a pistol, and the other is a US Marine with a Thompson that has a 30-round clip loaded and 5 x 20-round mags + a pistol. In both cases the pistol and SMG are the same caliber. The Marine came with the Amphibious Jeep, and there is also a driver with an M-1. You would want the driver to stay with the Jeep, but having an M-1 is great back-up or even a good counter-sniper weapon (empty the whole clip at a sniper roost and it’s bound to have some sort of effect)
Lastly, 3 x Desert Storm Infantry, USA.
One man has an M-60 MG with 200-300 rounds (it is difficult to make out the size of the bags). The 2nd member of the team has a M-16A2 and an AT-4, and carries the usual load of 210 rounds for the M-16 and 4 x hand grenades, plus a 100-round belt for the M-60. The third man has 40 x Grenades, for the M-203 launcher on his M-16 plus the same load of 5.56mm. He also has a PRC-77 radio. All of them have a pistol and the night-vision of that era, which was bulky but serviceable.
Having the Infantry along is helpful, perhaps even critical if you have to do something like get into the control room of a Nuclear power plant, or inspect a bridge for damage or demo. The problem is, besides the Amphibious Jeep, they have no dedicated “ride”. The Jeep can only take four of them, maximum.


Pros;
There are eight MGs in this platoon with 18,400 rounds, and 3,200 rounds for the quad 20mm. I have not been able to find out how many the Wiesel carries, but the ready ammo is 100 x H.E. and about 50 x A.P., but that A.P. bow should also be filled with h.e. or something like it for this mission. The 20mm guns also have enough elevation to reach the rooftops in most urban warfare settings.
Add that to all the heavy stuff, and I feel confident that this unit could pile up 10-20 thousand Z’s per outing!
And that is being conservative.
This unit can lunge out into the unknown, or take a horde head-on, or be the quick-reaction team for a broad-front on the advance or defense. And when it comes to rogue human Warlords and such (LMOE) then unless they were able to break into a Military weapons store, this should be enough to awe them into compliance. Even against armed humans this little unit can inflict devastating damage.

Cons;
The mediocre traveling range of the unit has already been covered. The lack of an APC for the infantry could be curtains for them, riding on the back of a tank all day is not ideal either. This means that an over-night lager in Z-territory is not a good idea, for them or the Wirblewind.
This platoon needs a very conventional Logistic train for all the ammo and fuel it will require. None of the cannon or rocket rounds can be “scrounged”. Add to this the amount of fuel those low-tech engines burn, and this platoon is fighting with one foot in a bucket unless it has access to exactly what it needs.
The Tiger and the infantry will have to be seen as optional add-ons, the Tiger because of what it can do to bridges and the Infantry because they are so vulnerable.


Keeping in mind that this is a radon unit, not one set up with the Z’s in mind, how would you rate this Platoon?

paulrward
Member
Posts: 666
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 20:14

Re: An unusual Challenge for unit-builders

Post by paulrward » 22 Nov 2022 08:35

Hello All ;

Mr. Richard Anderson stated :
Yep, the what if section finally jumped the shark.

To jump over a Shark requires one to make a Leap of Faith, and this requires both a
strong imagination and the flexibility of mind in order that one would have the
speed and agility to successfully perform such an aerial feat.

Those who lack the imagination or the mental capability to make such leaps are better
off remaining on the sidelines, lest they trip over their own clumsiness and end up
decorating the front teeth of the shark, much like a moth or grasshopper can end
up on the front of the radiator of a fast moving automobile.

I have stated it before on this Forum, and i repeat it now: The two most powerful
words in the universe are..... " WHAT IF....... "

Respectfully ;

Paul R. Ward

As An Addendum: I have a VERY old friend, who attended High School with me, and then
went on to attend West Point. He retired as a Brigadier General, after a long and somewhat
varied career. Nearly two decades ago, when the current Zombie Meme got started, he was
working in the Pentagon, and he contacted me one Saturday morning. After an exchange
of pleasantries, he asked me, " Paul, What do you know about... Zombies....."

So, yes, the United States Army DOES have a Contingency War Plan to deal with a Zombie
Apocalypse......
Information not shared, is information lost
Voices that are banned, are voices who cannot share information....
Discussions that are silenced, are discussions that will occur elsewhere !

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