Midget Sub base

Discussions on all aspects of the Japanese Empire, from the capture of Taiwan until the end of the Second World War.
User avatar
fontessa
Member
Posts: 4489
Joined: 25 Mar 2011, 17:29
Location: Yokohama, Japan

Re: Midget Sub base

#16

Post by fontessa » 06 Dec 2022, 03:12

ShindenKai wrote:
05 Dec 2022, 23:39
So, the "cut-away" Kairyu was actually used for training purposes during the war?
Yes. I said that she was used in Yokosuka Assault Unit, but there is anothr story that she was used in Naval Submarine School, and this seems to be correct.

ROLAND1369 wrote:
06 Dec 2022, 01:02
How did this cutaway survive the postwar allied demilitarization of Japan?
The "cut-way" seems to have caught the interest of the U.S. military and was transported to the U.S. mainland without being destroyed. After being exhibited in the US mainland, she was returned to Japan.
海龍 米展示.jpg

fontessa

User avatar
ShindenKai
Member
Posts: 670
Joined: 29 Jan 2012, 06:43
Location: USA

Re: Midget Sub base

#17

Post by ShindenKai » 06 Dec 2022, 10:29

fontessa wrote:
06 Dec 2022, 03:12
ShindenKai wrote:
05 Dec 2022, 23:39
So, the "cut-away" Kairyu was actually used for training purposes during the war?
Yes. I said that she was used in Yokosuka Assault Unit, but there is anothr story that she was used in Naval Submarine School, and this seems to be correct.

ROLAND1369 wrote:
06 Dec 2022, 01:02
How did this cutaway survive the postwar allied demilitarization of Japan?
The "cut-way" seems to have caught the interest of the U.S. military and was transported to the U.S. mainland without being destroyed. After being exhibited in the US mainland, she was returned to Japan.
fontessa
That's a fascinating bit of history, thank you Fontessa.


Makes me curious about this "cut-away" Kaiten Type 1

https://forum.rc-sub.com/forum/photos-o ... ven-shaker

https://products.kitsapsun.com/archive/ ... _subs.html

https://navalunderseamuseum.org/

I would imagine the red painted exterior to have been applied by the U.S. after capture but I'm not so sure now, another training aide used during the war? I took many pictures of it when I visited the Musuem listed many yrs ago, alas those were lost when my cell phone that had the images was damaged.

I plan to make another trip over there if they still have it...(not currently listed as exhibit).


User avatar
fontessa
Member
Posts: 4489
Joined: 25 Mar 2011, 17:29
Location: Yokohama, Japan

Re: Midget Sub base

#18

Post by fontessa » 06 Dec 2022, 12:13

ShindenKai wrote:
06 Dec 2022, 10:29
I would imagine the red painted exterior to have been applied by the U.S. after capture but I'm not so sure now, another training aide used during the war?
Kaiten for Training Use
The white color was visible from a distance even while navigating on water.
訓練用回天.jpg

fontessa

User avatar
ShindenKai
Member
Posts: 670
Joined: 29 Jan 2012, 06:43
Location: USA

Re: Midget Sub base

#19

Post by ShindenKai » 06 Dec 2022, 19:50

3D model of 3D scanned Kaiten Type 1
https://collections.arck-project.org/vi ... 0&limit=10

User avatar
ShindenKai
Member
Posts: 670
Joined: 29 Jan 2012, 06:43
Location: USA

Re: Midget Sub base

#20

Post by ShindenKai » 07 Dec 2022, 10:36

Kairyu with large camo painted sail and does not appear to have 2 periscopes.
Attachments
Kairyu LargeSail Cave.jpg

User avatar
ShindenKai
Member
Posts: 670
Joined: 29 Jan 2012, 06:43
Location: USA

Re: Midget Sub base

#21

Post by ShindenKai » 07 Dec 2022, 20:57

More proof that the "cut-away" Kairyu was in-fact captured that way at Yokosuka. Also interested in the item astern of the Kairyu, which appears to have diving fore-planes...

https://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=3422
Attachments
Kairyu Cut-Away Yokosuka.jpg
Captured at Yokosuka
Kairyu LargeSail Floating.jpg
Large sail, single periscope

User avatar
ShindenKai
Member
Posts: 670
Joined: 29 Jan 2012, 06:43
Location: USA

Re: Midget Sub base

#22

Post by ShindenKai » 08 Dec 2022, 03:18

UFDO (Unidentified Floating/Diving Object, LOL) directly astern the Kairyu in previous post. Looks too small to be a Kaiten...even has some sort of placard, most likely describing what it is, staked into the ground next to it. Appears to possibly have low-mounted diving fore-planes...
Attachments
UFDO astern Kairyu at Yokosuka .jpg

User avatar
fontessa
Member
Posts: 4489
Joined: 25 Mar 2011, 17:29
Location: Yokohama, Japan

Re: Midget Sub base

#23

Post by fontessa » 12 Dec 2022, 21:45

ShindenKai wrote:
08 Dec 2022, 03:18
UFDO (Unidentified Floating/Diving Object, LOL) directly astern the Kairyu in the previous post. Looks too small to be a Kaiten...even has some sort of placard, most likely describing what it is, staked into the ground next to it. Appears to possibly have low-mounted diving fore-planes...
I found a photo said to have been taken around 1954. It looks like it was taken in the same place as your photo. However, the building in the background is a two-story building. OFDO seems to be about half the length and diameter of Kairyu. Therefore, it is judged to be a torpedo in this photo.
But IJN had a few midget subs this small. I found two and they don't look alike.
(1) 回天十型 Kaitem Mod10 (Kength was 9m)
(2) 震海 Shinkai
Both ended in the prototype stage.

I also found the chart of KairI Training Boat. There were early type and late type, and the distinguishing point is the presence or absence of a Type 4 compass.

海龍 横須賀 1954 A.jpg


回天十型 Kaiten Type10
回天十型.jpg


震海 Shinkai
震海.jpg


海龍訓練艇 KairI Training Boat
海龍 訓練艇.jpg

fontessa

User avatar
Takao
Member
Posts: 3776
Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 20:27
Location: Reading, Pa

Re: Midget Sub base

#24

Post by Takao » 13 Dec 2022, 23:17

fontessa wrote:
12 Dec 2022, 21:45
ShindenKai wrote:
08 Dec 2022, 03:18
UFDO (Unidentified Floating/Diving Object, LOL) directly astern the Kairyu in the previous post. Looks too small to be a Kaiten...even has some sort of placard, most likely describing what it is, staked into the ground next to it. Appears to possibly have low-mounted diving fore-planes...
I found a photo said to have been taken around 1954. It looks like it was taken in the same place as your photo. However, the building in the background is a two-story building. OFDO seems to be about half the length and diameter of Kairyu. Therefore, it is judged to be a torpedo in this photo.
But IJN had a few midget subs this small. I found two and they don't look alike.
(1) 回天十型 Kaitem Mod10 (Kength was 9m)
(2) 震海 Shinkai
Both ended in the prototype stage.

I also found the chart of KairI Training Boat. There were early type and late type, and the distinguishing point is the presence or absence of a Type 4 compass.


海龍 横須賀 1954 A.jpg



回天十型 Kaiten Type10
回天十型.jpg



震海 Shinkai
震海.jpg



海龍訓練艇 KairI Training Boat
海龍 訓練艇.jpg


fontessa
A second story was added sometime between 1948/49 and 1954.

Image
From 1948/49.

User avatar
fontessa
Member
Posts: 4489
Joined: 25 Mar 2011, 17:29
Location: Yokohama, Japan

Re: Midget Sub base

#25

Post by fontessa » 14 Dec 2022, 00:33

Takao wrote:
13 Dec 2022, 23:17
fontessa wrote:
12 Dec 2022, 21:45
ShindenKai wrote:
08 Dec 2022, 03:18
UFDO (Unidentified Floating/Diving Object, LOL) directly astern the Kairyu in the previous post. Looks too small to be a Kaiten...even has some sort of placard, most likely describing what it is, staked into the ground next to it. Appears to possibly have low-mounted diving fore-planes...
I found a photo said to have been taken around 1954. It looks like it was taken in the same place as your photo. However, the building in the background is a two-story building. OFDO seems to be about half the length and diameter of Kairyu. Therefore, it is judged to be a torpedo in this photo.
But IJN had a few midget subs this small. I found two and they don't look alike.
(1) 回天十型 Kaitem Mod10 (Kength was 9m)
(2) 震海 Shinkai
Both ended in the prototype stage.

I also found the chart of KairI Training Boat. There were early type and late type, and the distinguishing point is the presence or absence of a Type 4 compass.


海龍 横須賀 1954 A.jpg



回天十型 Kaiten Type10
回天十型.jpg



震海 Shinkai
震海.jpg



海龍訓練艇 KairI Training Boat
海龍 訓練艇.jpg


fontessa
A second story was added sometime between 1948/49 and 1954.
Thanks. The photo was taken on 11 May 1951, so second story was added between 1951 and 1954.
海龍 横須賀 May 1951.jpg
海龍 横須賀 May 1951.jpg (60.66 KiB) Viewed 452 times

fontessa

User avatar
ShindenKai
Member
Posts: 670
Joined: 29 Jan 2012, 06:43
Location: USA

Re: Midget Sub base

#26

Post by ShindenKai » 09 Feb 2023, 04:23

fontessa wrote:
12 Dec 2022, 21:45
ShindenKai wrote:
08 Dec 2022, 03:18
UFDO (Unidentified Floating/Diving Object, LOL) directly astern the Kairyu in the previous post. Looks too small to be a Kaiten...even has some sort of placard, most likely describing what it is, staked into the ground next to it. Appears to possibly have low-mounted diving fore-planes...
I found a photo said to have been taken around 1954. It looks like it was taken in the same place as your photo. However, the building in the background is a two-story building. OFDO seems to be about half the length and diameter of Kairyu. Therefore, it is judged to be a torpedo in this photo.
But IJN had a few midget subs this small. I found two and they don't look alike.
(1) 回天十型 Kaitem Mod10 (Kength was 9m)
(2) 震海 Shinkai
Both ended in the prototype stage.

fontessa
It does seem like the Shinkai is the best idea so far.
Found another image...appears to have two separate crew entrance hatches (crude periscope? for forward compartment), seems that a scuttling charge has been set-off in rear crew compartment: the peeled open section of hull (on the right side) at an approx 60-70* angle..
Low mounted, diving fore-planes are clearly evident.

My only other guess is that maybe its a modified Type 4 Kaiten for training?
Attachments
E4C0CBD1-7D76-45FA-ABB4-0A81B5BCA4A6.jpeg
Shinkai?
E4C0CBD1-7D76-45FA-ABB4-0A81B5BCA4A6.jpeg (38.82 KiB) Viewed 356 times

User avatar
Kiipu
Member
Posts: 35
Joined: 09 Dec 2022, 23:46
Location: United States

Re: Midget Sub base

#27

Post by Kiipu » 09 Feb 2023, 20:00

Here is the Kairyū 海龍 that was at the Naval Submarine Base New London back in 1985.
Attachments
1985-groton-ct-back-view.jpg
Last edited by Kiipu on 10 Feb 2023, 01:52, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
ShindenKai
Member
Posts: 670
Joined: 29 Jan 2012, 06:43
Location: USA

Re: Midget Sub base

#28

Post by ShindenKai » 09 Feb 2023, 22:59

Kiipu wrote:
09 Feb 2023, 20:00
Here is the Kairyū 海龍 that was at the Naval Submarine Base New London back in July 1985.
Very cool! Thank you for posting this. Seems it's had at least a couple of different shades of grey paint over its lifetime. Are you sure that was taken in '85? If so, it's been across the Pacific a few times. Very interesting stuff!

User avatar
Kiipu
Member
Posts: 35
Joined: 09 Dec 2022, 23:46
Location: United States

Re: Midget Sub base

#29

Post by Kiipu » 10 Feb 2023, 01:36

Based upon Wikipedia, there are currently two of them, one in Japan and one in the United States.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kairy%C5% ... _submarine

My mistake, the picture was taken in December 1985. The 07, which I thought was July, is actually the negative number! The seventh picture of the film roll. One more picture, print 08, taken from the front on the same day. As an aside, I was the one that took the pictures.
Attachments
1985-groton-ct-front-view.jpg

User avatar
ShindenKai
Member
Posts: 670
Joined: 29 Jan 2012, 06:43
Location: USA

Re: Midget Sub base

#30

Post by ShindenKai » 10 Feb 2023, 03:41

Kiipu wrote:
10 Feb 2023, 01:36
Based upon Wikipedia, there are currently two of them, one in Japan and one in the United States.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kairy%C5% ... _submarine

My mistake, the picture was taken in December 1985. The 07, which I thought was July, is actually the negative number! The seventh picture of the film roll. One more picture, print 08, taken from the front on the same day. As an aside, I was the one that took the pictures.
My mistake, it's even more interesting that the "cut-away" was done to two Kairyu's. I'm very glad that you have decided to share your pics with us. Thank you!

Post Reply

Return to “Japan at War 1895-1945”