HKB Pernelle I

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pvv8
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HKB Pernelle I

Post by pvv8 » 12 Dec 2022 17:01

Hi

On multiple websites I read that HKB Pernelle I ( La Pernelle ) was also called by the Germans "La Pinoterie " has somebody proof of that ?
Because I find that strange, the word has something to do with wine / grapes and also not frequently used in French, I think...

also

La Pernelle II, with 3 open positions for 17 cm canons, called "Essen" if I am not mistaken, the name should be "Hessen" ( both are cities in Germany )

Thanks in advance if somebody can confirm the above
Patrick

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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by jopaerya » 13 Dec 2022 12:09

H.K.B. La Pernelle I ( 9./1261) has 4 x 10.5 cm K.331 (f) and had the nickname Hessen

H.K.B. La Pernelle II (10./1261) has 4 x 17 cm K.18

Please use only good internet sites or books, for Normandie coast batterie's
https://www.histoire-fortifications.com ... 22_-b.html

pvv8
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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by pvv8 » 13 Dec 2022 14:57

Thanks Jos for your reply...

" Please use only good internet sites " I'm using a good internetsite : forum.axishistory.com :wink: :wink: :wink:

The name "Hessen" relates probably to an old WW1 battery of the "Kaiserliche Marinekorps Flandern" situated in Uitkerke a submunicipality of the Flemish seaside town of Blankenberge. The WW1 battery had is name from an old German cruiser.

I mentioned 3 x 170mm guns, because one was damaged at the time of the disembarkation and was at Cherbourg for repairs but you are right, it consisted out of 4 x 17cm guns.

regards
patrick

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AvB
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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by AvB » 13 Dec 2022 19:16

I wouldn't say it refers to that Batterie Hessen. At La Pernelle is a army coastal battery instead of a naval one.
Interesting how this La Pinoterie became widespread. It's everywhere on the web. :)

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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by pvv8 » 14 Dec 2022 10:33

You're correct, due to the fact that it's a HKB and not a MKB. The name could be refering to "Großherzogtum Hessen" or something else...

The name La Pinoterie ( composed of Pinot + tri ) is "widespread" due to the fact that a lot of websites are taking over text from each other.
and the name "Hessen" ( some websites use the name "Essen" ) is than incorrectly attributed to Pernelle II

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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by moonraker » 16 Dec 2022 11:33

hello Pvv8
Just the time to return my house ! So the document from bauprogram (1/44) with this name "hessen". for info I have never seen "the pinoterie" noted on any German document ?

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pvv8
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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by pvv8 » 16 Dec 2022 13:00

Thx Moonraker
BTW i see that you are from Normandie, just curious, do you know the meaning of that french word ( La Pinoterie )
I know that pinot is a name of a grape used to make wine...

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AvB
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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by AvB » 16 Dec 2022 21:21

There're a lot of farms/hamlets around La Pernelle ending in -erie. This is a map from the 1950s.
I have the feeling the name Pinoterie was added by the allies in a report, or it was in an early book or something.
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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by pvv8 » 17 Dec 2022 09:41

That's also possible...

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Manuferey
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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by Manuferey » 17 Dec 2022 16:26

pvv8 wrote:
12 Dec 2022 17:01
On multiple websites I read that HKB Pernelle I ( La Pernelle ) was also called by the Germans "La Pinoterie " has somebody proof of that ?
Because I find that strange, the word has something to do with wine / grapes and also not frequently used in French, I think...

Patrick
Hi Patrick,

C'est la batterie de Morsalines (6./1261) qui était installée près du lieu dit La Pinoterie (on peut d'ailleurs voir la route La Pinoterie sur Google Map, elle longe la batterie au sud-ouest). Cette localisation fut énoncée au départ dans le gros livre Album Memorial Atlantikwall 1940-1944 d'Alain Chazette, paru en 1984 aux Editions Heimdal, livre qui fut longtemps la bible des bunkerarchéologues et dont les cartes des batteries furent reprises pendant plusieurs décades dans les sites sur l'Atlantikwall. L'information a été reprise ensuite par Alain Chazette dans son livre de 1989, toujours aux Editions Heimdal, 1944: Le Mur de l'Atlantique en Normandie.

Par ailleurs, je pense que Pinoterie vient plutôt du nom propre Pinot qui aurait été celui du propriétaire de la ferme qui donne sur la route de la Pinoterie il y a longtemps.

Emmanuel

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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by JKernwerk » 17 Dec 2022 16:34

Que?
:-)
JK

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Manuferey
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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by Manuferey » 17 Dec 2022 16:46

moonraker wrote:
16 Dec 2022 11:33
hello Pvv8
Just the time to return my house ! So the document from bauprogram (1/44) with this name "hessen". for info I have never seen "the pinoterie" noted on any German document ?

Me belfra-team

D'après un document allemand d'octobre 1943, c'est seulement à cette date que la batterie Hessen fut baptisée ainsi lorsqu'elle est devenue une batterie permanente et transférée dans la région de La Pernelle, étant auparavant désignée "Geraete Batterie Fort du Roule". Au même moment, la "Geraete Batterie Cosqueville" fut rebaptisée Batterie Thueringen donc aussi avec un nom de Land allemand.

A noter qu'il existait une batterie Hessen près de Aalesund en Norvège dès 1941, la HKB 33/976 Hessen. Elle aussi était équipée de canons de 10.5 cm K331(f). Mais il semble que le nom Hessen était local, probablement en lien avec l'île d'Hessa.

Emmanuel

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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by pvv8 » 17 Dec 2022 17:20

Hi Emmanuel,

I found the "street", it actually belongs to Crasville. I thought of that also but the only street that google could give, was "La Pinoterie" in 28200 Saint-Denis-Lanneray, more than 300 km from La Pernelle.
And that the name relates to a "Monsieur Pinot" I can believe that also ( do not confuse it with Monsieur Hulot, that is somebody else :D )

I came across the Norwegian batterie also

Many thanks for the information

Patrick

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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by Georg_S » 18 Dec 2022 10:53

Manuferey wrote:
17 Dec 2022 16:46
moonraker wrote:
16 Dec 2022 11:33
hello Pvv8
Just the time to return my house ! So the document from bauprogram (1/44) with this name "hessen". for info I have never seen "the pinoterie" noted on any German document ?

Me belfra-team

D'après un document allemand d'octobre 1943, c'est seulement à cette date que la batterie Hessen fut baptisée ainsi lorsqu'elle est devenue une batterie permanente et transférée dans la région de La Pernelle, étant auparavant désignée "Geraete Batterie Fort du Roule". Au même moment, la "Geraete Batterie Cosqueville" fut rebaptisée Batterie Thueringen donc aussi avec un nom de Land allemand.

A noter qu'il existait une batterie Hessen près de Aalesund en Norvège dès 1941, la HKB 33/976 Hessen. Elle aussi était équipée de canons de 10.5 cm K331(f). Mais il semble que le nom Hessen était local, probablement en lien avec l'île d'Hessa.

Emmanuel

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Manuferey
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Re: HKB Pernelle I

Post by Manuferey » 21 Dec 2022 21:13

Georg,

I apologize. I don't realize sometimes when I write French and when I write in English. Maybe too much fervor supporting Les Bleus here! :wink:

Here is what I should have written in English in the first place to Patrick.

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