The end of tanks as we know it?

Discussions on other historical eras.
Gooner1
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Gooner1 » 29 Jan 2023 16:24

Aida1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 11:51

Just throwing together a loose number of 'facts' that suit you without attempting to make a rational argument. A typical example of intellectual dishonesty.
The Abrams tank has a solid reputation.
I know where he got the 8 hours maintenance to 1 hour of operations 'fact'

Thomas Morse, former USMC tank officer
"The general rule is that for one hour of operations an M1A1 will need 8 hours of maintenance. This is ‘man-hours’, so a crew of four will need to conduct 2:1 maintenance to operation. Much of this maintenance is preventative in nature; checking and changing oils and fluids, track-tension and adjustment, verifying optics are still functioning properly, etc. A lot of preventative maintenance is actually checking for parts that are wearing out or failing, but haven’t caused a system to fail yet; and then replacing them."
https://www.quora.com/For-how-long-can- ... pare-parts

Routine checks that a well trained tank crew would do automatically and Russian mobiks probably don't.

Be interested to know where the 'fact' that Ukrainian bridges can't take a 75 ton tank came from. It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass eachother.

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wm
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by wm » 29 Jan 2023 16:25

The Covert Polish Repair Shop Patching Up Ukrainian Arms
Poland has set up a major repair operation aimed at returning damaged Ukrainian artillery and armor to the battlefield

In a sprawling factory complex surrounded by derelict buildings, hundreds of technicians are working around the clock on one of the biggest challenges of Ukraine’s war: repairing artillery and heavy armor and returning it to the front line.
...
In addition to the repair work in Poland, the mechanics are in constant contact with technicians in Ukraine—many of whom were civilians before the war—teaching them over encrypted apps how to repair everything from tanks to missiles.

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Gorque
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Gorque » 29 Jan 2023 19:17

Gooner1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 16:24
Aida1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 11:51

Just throwing together a loose number of 'facts' that suit you without attempting to make a rational argument. A typical example of intellectual dishonesty.
The Abrams tank has a solid reputation.
I know where he got the 8 hours maintenance to 1 hour of operations 'fact'

Thomas Morse, former USMC tank officer
"The general rule is that for one hour of operations an M1A1 will need 8 hours of maintenance. This is ‘man-hours’, so a crew of four will need to conduct 2:1 maintenance to operation. Much of this maintenance is preventative in nature; checking and changing oils and fluids, track-tension and adjustment, verifying optics are still functioning properly, etc. A lot of preventative maintenance is actually checking for parts that are wearing out or failing, but haven’t caused a system to fail yet; and then replacing them."
https://www.quora.com/For-how-long-can- ... pare-parts

Routine checks that a well trained tank crew would do automatically and Russian mobiks probably don't.

Be interested to know where the 'fact' that Ukrainian bridges can't take a 75 ton tank came from. It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass each other.
Good find! :thumbsup:

ljadw
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Posts: 15666
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by ljadw » 29 Jan 2023 19:41

Gooner1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 16:24
Aida1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 11:51

Just throwing together a loose number of 'facts' that suit you without attempting to make a rational argument. A typical example of intellectual dishonesty.
The Abrams tank has a solid reputation.
I know where he got the 8 hours maintenance to 1 hour of operations 'fact'

Thomas Morse, former USMC tank officer
"The general rule is that for one hour of operations an M1A1 will need 8 hours of maintenance. This is ‘man-hours’, so a crew of four will need to conduct 2:1 maintenance to operation. Much of this maintenance is preventative in nature; checking and changing oils and fluids, track-tension and adjustment, verifying optics are still functioning properly, etc. A lot of preventative maintenance is actually checking for parts that are wearing out or failing, but haven’t caused a system to fail yet; and then replacing them."
https://www.quora.com/For-how-long-can- ... pare-parts

Routine checks that a well trained tank crew would do automatically and Russian mobiks probably don't.

Be interested to know where the 'fact' that Ukrainian bridges can't take a 75 ton tank came from. It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass eachother.
I said : 8 man hours, I did not say 8 hours .
One hour of operations means 8 man hours of maintenance is a fact , not a ''fact ''.

ljadw
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by ljadw » 29 Jan 2023 19:45

All this would not have arrived before 1914 when statesmen were intelligent and realist people . But then came the American Marx, Lenin, Trotsky (W. Wilson ) doing blabla about liberty and such things, with as result dozens of millions of victims .

ljadw
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Posts: 15666
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by ljadw » 29 Jan 2023 20:03

Gorque wrote:
29 Jan 2023 19:17
Gooner1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 16:24
Aida1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 11:51

Just throwing together a loose number of 'facts' that suit you without attempting to make a rational argument. A typical example of intellectual dishonesty.
The Abrams tank has a solid reputation.
I know where he got the 8 hours maintenance to 1 hour of operations 'fact'

Thomas Morse, former USMC tank officer
"The general rule is that for one hour of operations an M1A1 will need 8 hours of maintenance. This is ‘man-hours’, so a crew of four will need to conduct 2:1 maintenance to operation. Much of this maintenance is preventative in nature; checking and changing oils and fluids, track-tension and adjustment, verifying optics are still functioning properly, etc. A lot of preventative maintenance is actually checking for parts that are wearing out or failing, but haven’t caused a system to fail yet; and then replacing them."
https://www.quora.com/For-how-long-can- ... pare-parts

Routine checks that a well trained tank crew would do automatically and Russian mobiks probably don't.

Be interested to know where the 'fact' that Ukrainian bridges can't take a 75 ton tank came from. It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass each other.
Good find! :thumbsup:
About the bridges : from Breaking Defense '' What is a main battle tank and how will Ukraine use them "'
''Perhaps most problematic of all, at 55-plus metric tons, they ( = Western tanks ) are too heavy to safely cross many Ukrainian bridges ''.
The same problem exists in Poland .
Thus : not a ''fact '' but a fact .

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Aida1
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Aida1 » 29 Jan 2023 20:17

ljadw wrote:
29 Jan 2023 19:41
Gooner1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 16:24
Aida1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 11:51

Just throwing together a loose number of 'facts' that suit you without attempting to make a rational argument. A typical example of intellectual dishonesty.
The Abrams tank has a solid reputation.
I know where he got the 8 hours maintenance to 1 hour of operations 'fact'

Thomas Morse, former USMC tank officer
"The general rule is that for one hour of operations an M1A1 will need 8 hours of maintenance. This is ‘man-hours’, so a crew of four will need to conduct 2:1 maintenance to operation. Much of this maintenance is preventative in nature; checking and changing oils and fluids, track-tension and adjustment, verifying optics are still functioning properly, etc. A lot of preventative maintenance is actually checking for parts that are wearing out or failing, but haven’t caused a system to fail yet; and then replacing them."
https://www.quora.com/For-how-long-can- ... pare-parts

Routine checks that a well trained tank crew would do automatically and Russian mobiks probably don't.

Be interested to know where the 'fact' that Ukrainian bridges can't take a 75 ton tank came from. It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass eachother.
I said : 8 man hours, I did not say 8 hours .
One hour of operations means 8 man hours of maintenance is a fact , not a ''fact ''.
You are trying to evade. You know nothing about tanks.

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Aida1
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Location: Brussels

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Aida1 » 29 Jan 2023 20:22

ljadw wrote:
29 Jan 2023 20:03
Gorque wrote:
29 Jan 2023 19:17
Gooner1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 16:24
Aida1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 11:51

Just throwing together a loose number of 'facts' that suit you without attempting to make a rational argument. A typical example of intellectual dishonesty.
The Abrams tank has a solid reputation.
I know where he got the 8 hours maintenance to 1 hour of operations 'fact'

Thomas Morse, former USMC tank officer
"The general rule is that for one hour of operations an M1A1 will need 8 hours of maintenance. This is ‘man-hours’, so a crew of four will need to conduct 2:1 maintenance to operation. Much of this maintenance is preventative in nature; checking and changing oils and fluids, track-tension and adjustment, verifying optics are still functioning properly, etc. A lot of preventative maintenance is actually checking for parts that are wearing out or failing, but haven’t caused a system to fail yet; and then replacing them."
https://www.quora.com/For-how-long-can- ... pare-parts

Routine checks that a well trained tank crew would do automatically and Russian mobiks probably don't.

Be interested to know where the 'fact' that Ukrainian bridges can't take a 75 ton tank came from. It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass each other.
Good find! :thumbsup:
About the bridges : from Breaking Defense '' What is a main battle tank and how will Ukraine use them "'
''Perhaps most problematic of all, at 55-plus metric tons, they ( = Western tanks ) are too heavy to safely cross many Ukrainian bridges ''.
The same problem exists in Poland .
Thus : not a ''fact '' but a fact .
Fact is that the Ukraine has been asking for these tanks for a long time and it knows better than you how and where it can use them.

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Yuri
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Location: Russia

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Yuri » 30 Jan 2023 00:47

Gooner1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 16:24
Aida1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 11:51

Just throwing together a loose number of 'facts' that suit you without attempting to make a rational argument. A typical example of intellectual dishonesty.
The Abrams tank has a solid reputation.
I know where he got the 8 hours maintenance to 1 hour of operations 'fact'

Thomas Morse, former USMC tank officer
"The general rule is that for one hour of operations an M1A1 will need 8 hours of maintenance. This is ‘man-hours’, so a crew of four will need to conduct 2:1 maintenance to operation. Much of this maintenance is preventative in nature; checking and changing oils and fluids, track-tension and adjustment, verifying optics are still functioning properly, etc. A lot of preventative maintenance is actually checking for parts that are wearing out or failing, but haven’t caused a system to fail yet; and then replacing them."
https://www.quora.com/For-how-long-can- ... pare-parts

Routine checks that a well trained tank crew would do automatically and Russian mobiks probably don't.

...
There are different options here:
a) or a person who has seen a tank only in a YouTube video can say (write) this, but in any case this person has no idea what "routine" maintenance of a tank is;
b) or this can be said (written) by a person who has never performed such a "routine" daily self-service as, for example, taking off his pants and taking a certain pose to remove excess fluids and solid food from the body (coping with natural needs) at a temperature of minus 25 degrees Celsius, even with complete calm. I'm not even talking about the fact that such a person has no idea what it is to perform the "routine" self-service described above at a temperature of minus 35 degrees Celsius and a wind speed of 10 meters per second.
c) or This person has no idea what the so-called "routine" maintenance of the tank turns into when at the end of the day the temperature was plus 5 degrees Celsius and a light wind, and in the morning you are "expected" to be minus 25 Celsius and the wind is whistling so that you need to shout at full force so that a nearby person can hear you a man.

I know for sure that the Russian mobiks-untermensch know and are able to act in the weather situations described above. With the Russians, it's clear, that's why they are untermensch. And how are things with our the European Ubermnschs? Are our the European Ubermnschs prepared to act in such situations?

P. S.
I served as a senior rifleman in a motorized rifle regiment, in which there was a tank battalion T-55 (40 tanks).
After each training battle, "routine" maintenance of the tank was carried out, while the tank crew was assisted by a motorized rifle squad. During such work, the crew members of the tank and the motorized rifle squad received a double ration of butter, meat and fish, in addition, without restriction: bread and fruit compote with sugar.

P. P. S.
In short, if at plus temperature for 1 hour of "operation" of the "western" tank, 8 man-hours of service are required, then at minus 10 and below Celsius, the service time will increase at least two to three times, up to 16-24 man-hours.

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Gorque
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Location: Clocktown

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Gorque » 30 Jan 2023 02:29

ljadw wrote:
29 Jan 2023 20:03
Gorque wrote:
29 Jan 2023 19:17
Gooner1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 16:24
Aida1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 11:51

Just throwing together a loose number of 'facts' that suit you without attempting to make a rational argument. A typical example of intellectual dishonesty.
The Abrams tank has a solid reputation.
I know where he got the 8 hours maintenance to 1 hour of operations 'fact'

Thomas Morse, former USMC tank officer
"The general rule is that for one hour of operations an M1A1 will need 8 hours of maintenance. This is ‘man-hours’, so a crew of four will need to conduct 2:1 maintenance to operation. Much of this maintenance is preventative in nature; checking and changing oils and fluids, track-tension and adjustment, verifying optics are still functioning properly, etc. A lot of preventative maintenance is actually checking for parts that are wearing out or failing, but haven’t caused a system to fail yet; and then replacing them."
https://www.quora.com/For-how-long-can- ... pare-parts

Routine checks that a well trained tank crew would do automatically and Russian mobiks probably don't.

Be interested to know where the 'fact' that Ukrainian bridges can't take a 75 ton tank came from. It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass each other.
Good find! :thumbsup:
About the bridges : from Breaking Defense '' What is a main battle tank and how will Ukraine use them "'
''Perhaps most problematic of all, at 55-plus metric tons, they ( = Western tanks ) are too heavy to safely cross many Ukrainian bridges ''.
The same problem exists in Poland .
Thus : not a ''fact '' but a fact .
I noticed that you didn't reply to Gooner's statement " It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass each other."

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Yuri
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Posts: 1969
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 11:24
Location: Russia

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Yuri » 30 Jan 2023 02:37

Gorque wrote:
30 Jan 2023 02:29
ljadw wrote:
29 Jan 2023 20:03
Gorque wrote:
29 Jan 2023 19:17
Gooner1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 16:24
Aida1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 11:51

Just throwing together a loose number of 'facts' that suit you without attempting to make a rational argument. A typical example of intellectual dishonesty.
The Abrams tank has a solid reputation.
I know where he got the 8 hours maintenance to 1 hour of operations 'fact'

Thomas Morse, former USMC tank officer
"The general rule is that for one hour of operations an M1A1 will need 8 hours of maintenance. This is ‘man-hours’, so a crew of four will need to conduct 2:1 maintenance to operation. Much of this maintenance is preventative in nature; checking and changing oils and fluids, track-tension and adjustment, verifying optics are still functioning properly, etc. A lot of preventative maintenance is actually checking for parts that are wearing out or failing, but haven’t caused a system to fail yet; and then replacing them."
https://www.quora.com/For-how-long-can- ... pare-parts

Routine checks that a well trained tank crew would do automatically and Russian mobiks probably don't.

Be interested to know where the 'fact' that Ukrainian bridges can't take a 75 ton tank came from. It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass each other.
Good find! :thumbsup:
About the bridges : from Breaking Defense '' What is a main battle tank and how will Ukraine use them "'
''Perhaps most problematic of all, at 55-plus metric tons, they ( = Western tanks ) are too heavy to safely cross many Ukrainian bridges ''.
The same problem exists in Poland .
Thus : not a ''fact '' but a fact .
I noticed that you didn't reply to Gooner's statement " It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass each other."
You must have never driven on roads where signs are installed limiting the weight of the vehicle: for example, a sign limiting the weight on one axle of a truck to 8 tons or, for example, a sign limiting the total weight of a vehicle to 20 tons.
No? didn't you go?

For your information, in Russia, not only on bridges, but even on roads during certain periods of time, which are called autumn and spring rasputitsa, the movement of heavy wheeled trucks is prohibited, not to mention tracked vehicles.

Gooner1
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Posts: 2792
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Location: London

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Gooner1 » 30 Jan 2023 19:47

Yuri wrote:
30 Jan 2023 00:47
[
There are different options here:
a) or a person who has seen a tank only in a YouTube video can say (write) this, but in any case this person has no idea what "routine" maintenance of a tank is;
b) or this can be said (written) by a person who has never performed such a "routine" daily self-service as, for example, taking off his pants and taking a certain pose to remove excess fluids and solid food from the body (coping with natural needs) at a temperature of minus 25 degrees Celsius, even with complete calm. I'm not even talking about the fact that such a person has no idea what it is to perform the "routine" self-service described above at a temperature of minus 35 degrees Celsius and a wind speed of 10 meters per second.
c) or This person has no idea what the so-called "routine" maintenance of the tank turns into when at the end of the day the temperature was plus 5 degrees Celsius and a light wind, and in the morning you are "expected" to be minus 25 Celsius and the wind is whistling so that you need to shout at full force so that a nearby person can hear you a man.

I know for sure that the Russian mobiks-untermensch know and are able to act in the weather situations described above. With the Russians, it's clear, that's why they are untermensch. And how are things with our the European Ubermnschs? Are our the European Ubermnschs prepared to act in such situations?

P. S.
I served as a senior rifleman in a motorized rifle regiment, in which there was a tank battalion T-55 (40 tanks).
After each training battle, "routine" maintenance of the tank was carried out, while the tank crew was assisted by a motorized rifle squad. During such work, the crew members of the tank and the motorized rifle squad received a double ration of butter, meat and fish, in addition, without restriction: bread and fruit compote with sugar.

P. P. S.
In short, if at plus temperature for 1 hour of "operation" of the "western" tank, 8 man-hours of service are required, then at minus 10 and below Celsius, the service time will increase at least two to three times, up to 16-24 man-hours.
You realise that Ukrainians will be operating these tanks?
Norway and Canada are both Leopard [as are Finland and Sweden] operators (the USMC operated Abrams in Norwegian winters), whilst the British have had a Challenger 2 battle group in Estonia these past 11 months



Still the Western tanks won't be arriving in Ukraine till the Spring.

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Gorque
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Posts: 1662
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Location: Clocktown

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Gorque » 30 Jan 2023 22:49

Yuri wrote:
30 Jan 2023 02:37
Gorque wrote:
30 Jan 2023 02:29
ljadw wrote:
29 Jan 2023 20:03
Gorque wrote:
29 Jan 2023 19:17
Gooner1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 16:24


I know where he got the 8 hours maintenance to 1 hour of operations 'fact'

Thomas Morse, former USMC tank officer
"The general rule is that for one hour of operations an M1A1 will need 8 hours of maintenance. This is ‘man-hours’, so a crew of four will need to conduct 2:1 maintenance to operation. Much of this maintenance is preventative in nature; checking and changing oils and fluids, track-tension and adjustment, verifying optics are still functioning properly, etc. A lot of preventative maintenance is actually checking for parts that are wearing out or failing, but haven’t caused a system to fail yet; and then replacing them."
https://www.quora.com/For-how-long-can- ... pare-parts

Routine checks that a well trained tank crew would do automatically and Russian mobiks probably don't.

Be interested to know where the 'fact' that Ukrainian bridges can't take a 75 ton tank came from. It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass each other.
Good find! :thumbsup:
About the bridges : from Breaking Defense '' What is a main battle tank and how will Ukraine use them "'
''Perhaps most problematic of all, at 55-plus metric tons, they ( = Western tanks ) are too heavy to safely cross many Ukrainian bridges ''.
The same problem exists in Poland .
Thus : not a ''fact '' but a fact .
I noticed that you didn't reply to Gooner's statement " It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass each other."
You must have never driven on roads where signs are installed limiting the weight of the vehicle: for example, a sign limiting the weight on one axle of a truck to 8 tons or, for example, a sign limiting the total weight of a vehicle to 20 tons.
No? didn't you go?

For your information, in Russia, not only on bridges, but even on roads during certain periods of time, which are called autumn and spring rasputitsa, the movement of heavy wheeled trucks is prohibited, not to mention tracked vehicles.
Here's a hint; Don't take up mind-reading as a vocation. You'd fail spectacularly.

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15666
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by ljadw » 31 Jan 2023 07:38

Gooner1 wrote:
30 Jan 2023 19:47
Yuri wrote:
30 Jan 2023 00:47
[
There are different options here:
a) or a person who has seen a tank only in a YouTube video can say (write) this, but in any case this person has no idea what "routine" maintenance of a tank is;
b) or this can be said (written) by a person who has never performed such a "routine" daily self-service as, for example, taking off his pants and taking a certain pose to remove excess fluids and solid food from the body (coping with natural needs) at a temperature of minus 25 degrees Celsius, even with complete calm. I'm not even talking about the fact that such a person has no idea what it is to perform the "routine" self-service described above at a temperature of minus 35 degrees Celsius and a wind speed of 10 meters per second.
c) or This person has no idea what the so-called "routine" maintenance of the tank turns into when at the end of the day the temperature was plus 5 degrees Celsius and a light wind, and in the morning you are "expected" to be minus 25 Celsius and the wind is whistling so that you need to shout at full force so that a nearby person can hear you a man.

I know for sure that the Russian mobiks-untermensch know and are able to act in the weather situations described above. With the Russians, it's clear, that's why they are untermensch. And how are things with our the European Ubermnschs? Are our the European Ubermnschs prepared to act in such situations?

P. S.
I served as a senior rifleman in a motorized rifle regiment, in which there was a tank battalion T-55 (40 tanks).
After each training battle, "routine" maintenance of the tank was carried out, while the tank crew was assisted by a motorized rifle squad. During such work, the crew members of the tank and the motorized rifle squad received a double ration of butter, meat and fish, in addition, without restriction: bread and fruit compote with sugar.

P. P. S.
In short, if at plus temperature for 1 hour of "operation" of the "western" tank, 8 man-hours of service are required, then at minus 10 and below Celsius, the service time will increase at least two to three times, up to 16-24 man-hours.
You realise that Ukrainians will be operating these tanks?
Norway and Canada are both Leopard [as are Finland and Sweden] operators (the USMC operated Abrams in Norwegian winters), whilst the British have had a Challenger 2 battle group in Estonia these past 11 months



Still the Western tanks won't be arriving in Ukraine till the Spring.
Norway,Canada,Finland,Sweden.US, Britain have no forces in Ukraine .And in April, temperatures in Eastern Ukraine can still fall to minus 10 Celsius .
And, Challengers and Leos will still be something foreign, alien for the Ukrainians in April .

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15666
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by ljadw » 31 Jan 2023 07:41

Gorque wrote:
30 Jan 2023 02:29
ljadw wrote:
29 Jan 2023 20:03
Gorque wrote:
29 Jan 2023 19:17
Gooner1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 16:24
Aida1 wrote:
29 Jan 2023 11:51

Just throwing together a loose number of 'facts' that suit you without attempting to make a rational argument. A typical example of intellectual dishonesty.
The Abrams tank has a solid reputation.
I know where he got the 8 hours maintenance to 1 hour of operations 'fact'

Thomas Morse, former USMC tank officer
"The general rule is that for one hour of operations an M1A1 will need 8 hours of maintenance. This is ‘man-hours’, so a crew of four will need to conduct 2:1 maintenance to operation. Much of this maintenance is preventative in nature; checking and changing oils and fluids, track-tension and adjustment, verifying optics are still functioning properly, etc. A lot of preventative maintenance is actually checking for parts that are wearing out or failing, but haven’t caused a system to fail yet; and then replacing them."
https://www.quora.com/For-how-long-can- ... pare-parts

Routine checks that a well trained tank crew would do automatically and Russian mobiks probably don't.

Be interested to know where the 'fact' that Ukrainian bridges can't take a 75 ton tank came from. It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass each other.
Good find! :thumbsup:
About the bridges : from Breaking Defense '' What is a main battle tank and how will Ukraine use them "'
''Perhaps most problematic of all, at 55-plus metric tons, they ( = Western tanks ) are too heavy to safely cross many Ukrainian bridges ''.
The same problem exists in Poland .
Thus : not a ''fact '' but a fact .
I noticed that you didn't reply to Gooner's statement " It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass each other."
Do two 40 ton lorries pass each other on a bridge that can sustain only 45 tons ?

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