The end of tanks as we know it?

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Aida1
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Aida1 » 31 Jan 2023 07:51

ljadw wrote:
31 Jan 2023 07:38
Gooner1 wrote:
30 Jan 2023 19:47
Yuri wrote:
30 Jan 2023 00:47
[
There are different options here:
a) or a person who has seen a tank only in a YouTube video can say (write) this, but in any case this person has no idea what "routine" maintenance of a tank is;
b) or this can be said (written) by a person who has never performed such a "routine" daily self-service as, for example, taking off his pants and taking a certain pose to remove excess fluids and solid food from the body (coping with natural needs) at a temperature of minus 25 degrees Celsius, even with complete calm. I'm not even talking about the fact that such a person has no idea what it is to perform the "routine" self-service described above at a temperature of minus 35 degrees Celsius and a wind speed of 10 meters per second.
c) or This person has no idea what the so-called "routine" maintenance of the tank turns into when at the end of the day the temperature was plus 5 degrees Celsius and a light wind, and in the morning you are "expected" to be minus 25 Celsius and the wind is whistling so that you need to shout at full force so that a nearby person can hear you a man.

I know for sure that the Russian mobiks-untermensch know and are able to act in the weather situations described above. With the Russians, it's clear, that's why they are untermensch. And how are things with our the European Ubermnschs? Are our the European Ubermnschs prepared to act in such situations?

P. S.
I served as a senior rifleman in a motorized rifle regiment, in which there was a tank battalion T-55 (40 tanks).
After each training battle, "routine" maintenance of the tank was carried out, while the tank crew was assisted by a motorized rifle squad. During such work, the crew members of the tank and the motorized rifle squad received a double ration of butter, meat and fish, in addition, without restriction: bread and fruit compote with sugar.

P. P. S.
In short, if at plus temperature for 1 hour of "operation" of the "western" tank, 8 man-hours of service are required, then at minus 10 and below Celsius, the service time will increase at least two to three times, up to 16-24 man-hours.
You realise that Ukrainians will be operating these tanks?
Norway and Canada are both Leopard [as are Finland and Sweden] operators (the USMC operated Abrams in Norwegian winters), whilst the British have had a Challenger 2 battle group in Estonia these past 11 months



Still the Western tanks won't be arriving in Ukraine till the Spring.
Norway,Canada,Finland,Sweden.US, Britain have no forces in Ukraine .And in April, temperatures in Eastern Ukraine can still fall to minus 10 Celsius .
And, Challengers and Leos will still be something foreign, alien for the Ukrainians in April .
You clearly did not read or understand the posting. :lol: :lol:

ljadw
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by ljadw » 31 Jan 2023 08:34

Those who are still talking about the few qualitative superior Western tanks who will easily eliminate the inferior Russian tanks ,fail to answer the question if Western tanks will meet Russian tanks,as we are talking about a very long front :in August Zelensky said that the front had a length of 2500 km, in December the Dupuy Institute was talking about a length of some 1000 km .As the Ukrainians are now on the defensive, how do they use their tanks ?Do they spread them over the front as did the French in 1939-1940 or do they concentrate them on one point ?

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Aida1
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Aida1 » 31 Jan 2023 13:42

ljadw wrote:
31 Jan 2023 08:34
Those who are still talking about the few qualitative superior Western tanks who will easily eliminate the inferior Russian tanks ,fail to answer the question if Western tanks will meet Russian tanks,as we are talking about a very long front :in August Zelensky said that the front had a length of 2500 km, in December the Dupuy Institute was talking about a length of some 1000 km .As the Ukrainians are now on the defensive, how do they use their tanks ?Do they spread them over the front as did the French in 1939-1940 or do they concentrate them on one point ?
The Ukranians asked for them so they know how they want to use them. :roll: :roll:

Gooner1
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Gooner1 » 31 Jan 2023 13:55

ljadw wrote:
31 Jan 2023 07:38
And, Challengers and Leos will still be something foreign, alien for the Ukrainians in April .
https://www.forces.net/ukraine/ukrainia ... er-2-tanks

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Cult Icon
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 31 Jan 2023 14:18

In reality the 'Western' tanks are destined to be used piecemeal at the individual-platoon level like the Ukrainian tanks are being used right now with few opportunities for tank to tank combat.

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Yuri
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Yuri » 31 Jan 2023 14:28

Gorque wrote:
30 Jan 2023 22:49
Yuri wrote:
30 Jan 2023 02:37
Gorque wrote:
30 Jan 2023 02:29
ljadw wrote:
29 Jan 2023 20:03
Gorque wrote:
29 Jan 2023 19:17


Good find! :thumbsup:
About the bridges : from Breaking Defense '' What is a main battle tank and how will Ukraine use them "'
''Perhaps most problematic of all, at 55-plus metric tons, they ( = Western tanks ) are too heavy to safely cross many Ukrainian bridges ''.
The same problem exists in Poland .
Thus : not a ''fact '' but a fact .
I noticed that you didn't reply to Gooner's statement " It must be awkward when two 40 ton lorries pass each other."
You must have never driven on roads where signs are installed limiting the weight of the vehicle: for example, a sign limiting the weight on one axle of a truck to 8 tons or, for example, a sign limiting the total weight of a vehicle to 20 tons.
No? didn't you go?

For your information, in Russia, not only on bridges, but even on roads during certain periods of time, which are called autumn and spring rasputitsa, the movement of heavy wheeled trucks is prohibited, not to mention tracked vehicles.
Here's a hint; Don't take up mind-reading as a vocation. You'd fail spectacularly.
Signs of restriction.jpg
Signs:
3.11) limitation of weight;
3.12) limitation of the mass per axle of the vehicle;
3.13) limitation of height;
3.14) limitation of width;
3.15) limitation of length.
If a sign 3.11 with the number 7Т is installed in front of a bridge, then if not two cars of 40 tons each come to such a bridge, but even one car weighing 20 tons, then our bridge will fail spectacularly.
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Gooner1
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Gooner1 » 31 Jan 2023 14:57

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ljadw
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by ljadw » 31 Jan 2023 16:23

Gooner1 wrote:
31 Jan 2023 13:55
ljadw wrote:
31 Jan 2023 07:38
And, Challengers and Leos will still be something foreign, alien for the Ukrainians in April .
https://www.forces.net/ukraine/ukrainia ... er-2-tanks

Image
If they begin (!) training british Challenger 2 tanks ,this means that before they went to Britain,they could not use these tanks .
And these tanks ( of which the utility is very questionable as they were never used in a war with Russia )will not be used as the British instructors told them to do ,but as the evolution of the front dictates them to do .
In reality :it are the Russians who will decide how the Ukrainians will use the Challengers .
The Challengers were not made to fight a positional warfare in Ukraine against the Russians , but to be used by British forces in an obsolete movement war .
The Ukrainian army is not the British army and Ukraine is not the former West Germany ,thus the benefit for Ukraine to use British weapons,is very questionable .
See the examples of the results of the Iraqi and Afghan armies using Western weapons .

ljadw
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by ljadw » 31 Jan 2023 16:26

Gooner1 wrote:
31 Jan 2023 14:57
Image
And you believe pledges of Western governments ?
Pledges are not proofs .
Especially pledges where there are no dates of deliveries .

ljadw
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by ljadw » 31 Jan 2023 16:29

Aida1 wrote:
31 Jan 2023 13:42
ljadw wrote:
31 Jan 2023 08:34
Those who are still talking about the few qualitative superior Western tanks who will easily eliminate the inferior Russian tanks ,fail to answer the question if Western tanks will meet Russian tanks,as we are talking about a very long front :in August Zelensky said that the front had a length of 2500 km, in December the Dupuy Institute was talking about a length of some 1000 km .As the Ukrainians are now on the defensive, how do they use their tanks ?Do they spread them over the front as did the French in 1939-1940 or do they concentrate them on one point ?
The Ukranians asked for them so they know how they want to use them. :roll: :roll:
The Russians decide how the Ukrainians would use tanks that never have been used against Russian tanks, not Britain or the US .

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Aida1
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Aida1 » 31 Jan 2023 17:32

ljadw wrote:
31 Jan 2023 16:23
Gooner1 wrote:
31 Jan 2023 13:55
ljadw wrote:
31 Jan 2023 07:38
And, Challengers and Leos will still be something foreign, alien for the Ukrainians in April .
https://www.forces.net/ukraine/ukrainia ... er-2-tanks

Image
If they begin (!) training british Challenger 2 tanks ,this means that before they went to Britain,they could not use these tanks .
And these tanks ( of which the utility is very questionable as they were never used in a war with Russia )will not be used as the British instructors told them to do ,but as the evolution of the front dictates them to do .
In reality :it are the Russians who will decide how the Ukrainians will use the Challengers .
The Challengers were not made to fight a positional warfare in Ukraine against the Russians , but to be used by British forces in an obsolete movement war .
The Ukrainian army is not the British army and Ukraine is not the former West Germany ,thus the benefit for Ukraine to use British weapons,is very questionable .
See the examples of the results of the Iraqi and Afghan armies using Western weapons .
The usual denying of everything without any knowledge. :roll: :roll:

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Aida1
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Aida1 » 31 Jan 2023 17:32

ljadw wrote:
31 Jan 2023 16:26
Gooner1 wrote:
31 Jan 2023 14:57
Image
And you believe pledges of Western governments ?
Pledges are not proofs .
Especially pledges where there are no dates of deliveries .
Trolling as always. :lol: :lol:

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Aida1
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Aida1 » 31 Jan 2023 17:34

ljadw wrote:
31 Jan 2023 16:29
Aida1 wrote:
31 Jan 2023 13:42
ljadw wrote:
31 Jan 2023 08:34
Those who are still talking about the few qualitative superior Western tanks who will easily eliminate the inferior Russian tanks ,fail to answer the question if Western tanks will meet Russian tanks,as we are talking about a very long front :in August Zelensky said that the front had a length of 2500 km, in December the Dupuy Institute was talking about a length of some 1000 km .As the Ukrainians are now on the defensive, how do they use their tanks ?Do they spread them over the front as did the French in 1939-1940 or do they concentrate them on one point ?
The Ukranians asked for them so they know how they want to use them. :roll: :roll:
The Russians decide how the Ukrainians would use tanks that never have been used against Russian tanks, not Britain or the US .
Not really and western tanks have certainly taken on russian supplied tanks in the past. Their qualities are welknown except by you.. :lol: :lol:

Tom Peters
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Tom Peters » 01 Feb 2023 03:28

ljadw wrote:
31 Jan 2023 16:26

And you believe pledges of Western governments ?
Sure do. HIMARS promised - HIMARS sent. Tanks (RU models) promised - Tanks sent. SAMP/T, Patriot, etc. all promised, all sent.

Pretty good track record.

Mad Dog

ljadw
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by ljadw » 01 Feb 2023 11:27

Tom Peters wrote:
01 Feb 2023 03:28
ljadw wrote:
31 Jan 2023 16:26

And you believe pledges of Western governments ?
Sure do. HIMARS promised - HIMARS sent. Tanks (RU models) promised - Tanks sent. SAMP/T, Patriot, etc. all promised, all sent.

Pretty good track record.

Mad Dog
Western tanks promised :not sent and no one knows when ,if these tanks will arrive .

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