Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

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Peter89
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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by Peter89 » 12 Feb 2023 10:02

Aida1 wrote:
12 Feb 2023 08:38
Peter89 wrote:
12 Feb 2023 07:42
Michael Kenny wrote:
12 Feb 2023 05:50
Tom Peters wrote:
12 Feb 2023 04:35


No one wants nuclear warfare.
Perhaps but a good number of Team Ukrainian want a wider war where NATO fights beside Ukraine. They are quite prepared to risk a nuclear stand-off.
I believe you are one of those people.

There are two types of posters in these threads.
1. Those who report the facts on the ground. Sometimes there are Russian setbacks and sometimes Ukrainian setbacks. Future strategy is discussed including an expected (even by The Ukrainians) Russian spring offensive.
2. Those who are actively supporting Ukraine and vigorously deny/dispute every report about a Ukrainian setback. They shout-down and slander anyone who does not 150% support Ukraine as a Russian troll. They eschew fact and instead post mainly their dreams of a total Russian collapse and a Ukrainian victory.
Again I see you are one of then latter.

Litmus test for those who believe they are impartial:
If you read my post above and conclude that I am a Russian Troll then you are a nut-case.
Moreover, a total Russian collapse is not in the best interest of the West, given the globe's geopolitical situation, where China and other emerging, overpopulating regions are posing a lethal threat to the West and the Western values, whereas the ageing society of Russia does not.

Also if anyone in the West thinks that personally Putin and his regime is a specific threat, and otherwise Russian politics would be diehard democracy, then then are also wrong. Putin is actually a moderate in Russian politics. And while the political market is not open in Russia (it never has been), there is no substantial political support behind the too pro-Western politicians like Navalnij.

Almost one year into the war, with half of Ukraine is in ruins, it is insane to talk about winners of the war. The winners are outside of the European continent.


It seems I was wrong about the potential Russian invasion during the winter, probably because the European economies were not hit nearly as much as I anticipated, thus the cumulative effects of the hybrid warfare can not come into play. With neither side showing any sign of exhaustion, this can continue practically forever. Maybe it's time for peace talks, after all.
Very weak defense of Putin and his agression against the Ukraine. There can never be any question of any type of alliance with a russia that does not respect the rights of eastern european peoples. We do not need Russia for anything. The only threat besides Russia is China which can be dealt with. More than allies enough for that.
I mean, do you follow the Russian media? Can you actually understand Russian? Are you fully aware of the alternatives?
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."

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Aida1
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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by Aida1 » 12 Feb 2023 10:04

Peter89 wrote:
12 Feb 2023 10:02
Aida1 wrote:
12 Feb 2023 08:38
Peter89 wrote:
12 Feb 2023 07:42
Michael Kenny wrote:
12 Feb 2023 05:50
Tom Peters wrote:
12 Feb 2023 04:35


No one wants nuclear warfare.
Perhaps but a good number of Team Ukrainian want a wider war where NATO fights beside Ukraine. They are quite prepared to risk a nuclear stand-off.
I believe you are one of those people.

There are two types of posters in these threads.
1. Those who report the facts on the ground. Sometimes there are Russian setbacks and sometimes Ukrainian setbacks. Future strategy is discussed including an expected (even by The Ukrainians) Russian spring offensive.
2. Those who are actively supporting Ukraine and vigorously deny/dispute every report about a Ukrainian setback. They shout-down and slander anyone who does not 150% support Ukraine as a Russian troll. They eschew fact and instead post mainly their dreams of a total Russian collapse and a Ukrainian victory.
Again I see you are one of then latter.

Litmus test for those who believe they are impartial:
If you read my post above and conclude that I am a Russian Troll then you are a nut-case.
Moreover, a total Russian collapse is not in the best interest of the West, given the globe's geopolitical situation, where China and other emerging, overpopulating regions are posing a lethal threat to the West and the Western values, whereas the ageing society of Russia does not.

Also if anyone in the West thinks that personally Putin and his regime is a specific threat, and otherwise Russian politics would be diehard democracy, then then are also wrong. Putin is actually a moderate in Russian politics. And while the political market is not open in Russia (it never has been), there is no substantial political support behind the too pro-Western politicians like Navalnij.

Almost one year into the war, with half of Ukraine is in ruins, it is insane to talk about winners of the war. The winners are outside of the European continent.


It seems I was wrong about the potential Russian invasion during the winter, probably because the European economies were not hit nearly as much as I anticipated, thus the cumulative effects of the hybrid warfare can not come into play. With neither side showing any sign of exhaustion, this can continue practically forever. Maybe it's time for peace talks, after all.
Very weak defense of Putin and his agression against the Ukraine. There can never be any question of any type of alliance with a russia that does not respect the rights of eastern european peoples. We do not need Russia for anything. The only threat besides Russia is China which can be dealt with. More than allies enough for that.
I mean, do you follow the Russian media? Can you actually understand Russian? Are you fully aware of the alternatives?
Nobody needs to follow state controlled russian media. It is all disinformation.

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Aida1
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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by Aida1 » 12 Feb 2023 10:06

Michael Kenny wrote:
12 Feb 2023 09:53
And the cherry on the cake that proves how emboldened the delusional have become:
Aida1 wrote:
12 Feb 2023 08:38
The only threat besides Russia is China which can be dealt with. More than allies enough for that.
One war is not enough. He is already salivating about the next!

as a box of frogs, as a hatter, as a March hare.
The choice is up to China.If it follows Putins example it will pay a heavy price.

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Aida1
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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by Aida1 » 12 Feb 2023 10:08

Michael Kenny wrote:
12 Feb 2023 09:40
Aida1 wrote:
12 Feb 2023 08:33


You are a russia lover. That is a fact. You support the invason of the Ukraine by Russia.
The above validates my quote below :
Michael Kenny wrote:
12 Feb 2023 05:50
:
If you read my post above and conclude that I am a Russian Troll then you are a nut-case.
_
_
_


Aida1 wrote:
12 Feb 2023 08:33
Giving the Ukraine powerful weapons will take care of that. Until now weak western leaders have not done enough where that is concerned.

The above validates my quote below:
Michael Kenny wrote:
12 Feb 2023 05:50

Perhaps but a good number of Team Ukrainian want a wider war where NATO fights beside Ukraine.
_
_
_



Aida1 wrote:
12 Feb 2023 08:33
Russia is a threat and needs to be destroyed as a military and economical power.
The above validates my quote below:
Michael Kenny wrote:
12 Feb 2023 05:50
They eschew fact and instead post mainly their dreams of a total Russian collapse and a Ukrainian victory.
Ypour grapes are very sour with your favourite country being humiliated in the Ukraine.It is your choice to support an illegal invasion and numerous warcrimes.

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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by Tom Peters » 12 Feb 2023 21:29

Michael Kenny wrote:
12 Feb 2023 05:50

Litmus test for those who believe they are impartial:
If you read my post above and conclude that I am a Russian Troll then you are a nut-case.
Seems a bit black and white, eh ?

I have said it before, and I can say it again. No one is winning this war. Death and destruction will be the only result for both sides. At this point I think RU will end up suffering more.

You didnt answer my question: Do you think Putin should withdraw from UKR ? Would this not be the most effective de-escalation ?

Mad Dog

Tom Peters
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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by Tom Peters » 12 Feb 2023 21:31

Peter89 wrote:
12 Feb 2023 07:42

Moreover, a total Russian collapse is not in the best interest of the West, given the globe's geopolitical situation, where China and other emerging, overpopulating regions are posing a lethal threat to the West and the Western values, whereas the ageing society of Russia does not.
A collapse or UR would bring about the same situation that happened after the fall of the SU - the concerns about nuclear warheads being bought and sold on the black market.

The best outcome is for Putin to fuck off back to RU, today.

Does anyone disagree ?

Mad Dog

Michael Kenny
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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by Michael Kenny » 12 Feb 2023 23:20

Tom Peters wrote:
12 Feb 2023 21:29

You didnt answer my question: Do you think..................
I do not do 'do you thinks'. I consider them nothing more than contrived breadcrumb trails that the questioner (mistakenly) thinks will deliver the unsuspecting victim's neck to the block.
I have made my views known and you take them as they come.

Michael Kenny
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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by Michael Kenny » 12 Feb 2023 23:24

Tom Peters wrote:
12 Feb 2023 21:29
Michael Kenny wrote:
12 Feb 2023 05:50

Litmus test for those who believe they are impartial:
If you read my post above and conclude that I am a Russian Troll then you are a nut-case.
Seems a bit black and white, eh ?
It was a bit of tongue-in-cheek but then a lunatic posted comments than conclusively proved he was a nut case.


Do you not agree?

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Cult Icon
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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by Cult Icon » 13 Feb 2023 01:46

Peter89 wrote:
12 Feb 2023 07:42

It seems I was wrong about the potential Russian invasion during the winter, probably because the European economies were not hit nearly as much as I anticipated, thus the cumulative effects of the hybrid warfare can not come into play. With neither side showing any sign of exhaustion, this can continue practically forever. Maybe it's time for peace talks, after all.
Gerasimov is now commander of all Russian forces in Ukraine. If he fails, it's on his shoulders. He is no longer just chief of the General Staff.

It looks like the so-called 'Winter offensive' was really Wagner's battle of Bakhmut. I don't think anyone saw how the Russians, after turning the separatists into a sizeable army, would create a large PMC army and use it to tie down 30% of Ukrainian front line forces and rob Ukraine of intiative.

The Ukrainian leadership is still claiming that the Russian offensive is coming, or the opening moves these past 2-3 weeks are the 'real start' of the offensive. So it's more likely it's going to be in the spring-summer. If the Russians follow up on the recent preliminary/shaping operations than perhaps there will be an offensive.

But the indicators would be obvious and impossible to conceal (troop movement, logistics, rail, vehicle columns etc.). Millions of artillery rounds/rockets and thousands of armored vehicles can't be concealed in this day and age.
Last edited by Cult Icon on 13 Feb 2023 01:50, edited 1 time in total.

Tom Peters
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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by Tom Peters » 13 Feb 2023 01:47

Michael Kenny wrote:
12 Feb 2023 23:20
Tom Peters wrote:
12 Feb 2023 21:29

You didnt answer my question: Do you think..................
I do not do 'do you thinks'. I consider them nothing more than contrived breadcrumb trails that the questioner (mistakenly) thinks will deliver the unsuspecting victim's neck to the block.
I have made my views known and you take them as they come.
Its a rather simple question. What wrong can come of answering ?

Do you disagree that this war is folly ?
Do you disagree that Putin is to blame for starting it ?
Do you disagree that Putin leaving UKR today would be an ideal outcome for the world as a whole ?

I dont actually know your views, as I dont remember you posting much in this thread. Can you point me to your views ?

Mad Dog

Tom Peters
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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by Tom Peters » 13 Feb 2023 01:50

Cult Icon wrote:
13 Feb 2023 01:46
Peter89 wrote:
12 Feb 2023 07:42

It seems I was wrong about the potential Russian invasion during the winter, probably because the European economies were not hit nearly as much as I anticipated, thus the cumulative effects of the hybrid warfare can not come into play. With neither side showing any sign of exhaustion, this can continue practically forever. Maybe it's time for peace talks, after all.
Gerasimov is now commander of all Russian forces in Ukraine. If he fails, it's on his shoulders. He is no longer just chief of the General Staff.

It looks like the so-called 'Winter offensive' was really Wagner's battle of Bakhmut. I don't think anyone saw how the Russians, after turning the separatists into a sizeable army, would create a large PMC army and use it to tie down 30% of Ukrainian front line forces and rob Ukraine of intiative.
Thats one way to spin it. The other side is "I guess the RU offensive has already failed ?"

Mad Dog

Michael Kenny
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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by Michael Kenny » 13 Feb 2023 02:29

Tom Peters wrote:
13 Feb 2023 01:47

Its a rather simple question. What wrong can come of answering ?
Because I am scared of you and your obvious intellectual superiority and .......err..... Drat, did I actually say that out loud. I mean I don't answer questions. Yep I will stick with that obvious lie to save face.

You will get nowhere trying to ape Sid. He loves getting others to run themselves ragged answering inane questions.

Peter89
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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by Peter89 » 13 Feb 2023 08:50

Cult Icon wrote:
13 Feb 2023 01:46
Peter89 wrote:
12 Feb 2023 07:42

It seems I was wrong about the potential Russian invasion during the winter, probably because the European economies were not hit nearly as much as I anticipated, thus the cumulative effects of the hybrid warfare can not come into play. With neither side showing any sign of exhaustion, this can continue practically forever. Maybe it's time for peace talks, after all.
Gerasimov is now commander of all Russian forces in Ukraine. If he fails, it's on his shoulders. He is no longer just chief of the General Staff.

It looks like the so-called 'Winter offensive' was really Wagner's battle of Bakhmut. I don't think anyone saw how the Russians, after turning the separatists into a sizeable army, would create a large PMC army and use it to tie down 30% of Ukrainian front line forces and rob Ukraine of intiative.

The Ukrainian leadership is still claiming that the Russian offensive is coming, or the opening moves these past 2-3 weeks are the 'real start' of the offensive. So it's more likely it's going to be in the spring-summer. If the Russians follow up on the recent preliminary/shaping operations than perhaps there will be an offensive.

But the indicators would be obvious and impossible to conceal (troop movement, logistics, rail, vehicle columns etc.). Millions of artillery rounds/rockets and thousands of armored vehicles can't be concealed in this day and age.
The complete occupation of Ukraine will not be a long term solution. If Ukrainians do not want to be part of Russia, then they'll 1. flee 2. resist. The Ukrainian infrastructure is already in ruins, and Russia simply does not have the money to repair it and elevate Ukraine's living standards to that of Russia. It might have been possible before the war, without the extensive damage, the mass exodus, and the unfavourable international relations.

There isn't a military solution for everything. Military should be a part of the state, not the other way around. What happens if the Russians "win" in their new offensive? Nothing, really. The chance for Ukraine being an integral part of the Russian Federation is close to zero. What happens if Ukraine deflects the Russian attack? Nothing, really. The chance for Ukraine being rebuilt and restored (not to mention its state elevated to Balkans standards at least) is also close to zero. Let's say the Ukrainians push out the Russians from Eastern Ukraine. What happens? Nothing, really; because there is the Crimea then, which again will be a casus belli, although the people who live there probably don't even favour the Ukrainian rule. So when will this war end?

It can practically drag on forever. And during all these years, the EU will be weaker, Russia will be weaker, and Ukraine will be devastated. Thus, again, isn't it time for peace talks?
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."

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wm
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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by wm » 13 Feb 2023 11:13

The EU isn't going to get weaker.
The EU is ten times wealthier than Russia and today doesn't need Russia for anything - the money it spends on Ukraine is a rounding error compared to its budget.

And the Ukrainians don't care about all that devastation.
In the forties, they lost ~200,000 people (not to mention ~400,000 arrested/deported) fighting the Soviets in much more desperate circumstances.

Russia has to be humiliated; "otherwise, we will see decades of this kind of behavior ahead of us."

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Re: Where are all of Russia's much touted advanced weapons?

Post by Tom Peters » 14 Feb 2023 03:42

Michael Kenny wrote:
13 Feb 2023 02:29
Tom Peters wrote:
13 Feb 2023 01:47

Its a rather simple question. What wrong can come of answering ?
Because I am scared of you and your obvious intellectual superiority and .......err..... Drat, did I actually say that out loud. I mean I don't answer questions. Yep I will stick with that obvious lie to save face.

You will get nowhere trying to ape Sid. He loves getting others to run themselves ragged answering inane questions.
Wow, that sarcasm came shining through loud and clear. No problems with the volume dial.

I dont know you, and I dont know "sid".

I dont know your thoughts on the subject either. Thats not much of an exchange.

Mad Dog

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