M1 and M1A1 carbine in use by British airborne?

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Daniel L
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M1 and M1A1 carbine in use by British airborne?

Post by Daniel L » 24 Oct 2006 16:32

Which British airborne units received the M1 and M1A1 carbine?

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Post by Wokelly » 25 Oct 2006 07:20

I didnt think they got any. If memeory serves it was teh SAS that used them (how much I dont know), but the regular british airborn did not use them to my knowledge (not exactly the best either).

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Post by Sitzkrieg » 25 Oct 2006 09:29

I recall seeing a photo of British Paras during the December 1944 clashes with the commies in Athens, and they had a Bren and a M1 carbine. I think I saw it in Osprey Publications' Elite #1 (The Paras).

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Post by PPoS » 25 Oct 2006 13:08

Yeah I think the SAS got some, and No. 1 and 6 Commando's got M1 Garands during their participation in Operation Torch and retained these rifles through the war.

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Post by Daniel L » 25 Oct 2006 13:49

My source is Jean Bouchery's The British Soldier vol 2. It clearly states "certain airborne units". on the other hand it doesn't mention that SAS and commando units received them.

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Post by Daniel L » 25 Oct 2006 14:42

How about this?

Image

"An airborne soldier takes aim with an American M-1 carbine from the first floor front balcony of the Hartenstein Hotel."

http://www.pegasusarchive.org/arnhem/frames.htm

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Post by PPoS » 26 Oct 2006 18:56

My source is Jean Bouchery's The British Soldier vol 2. It clearly states "certain airborne units".
How about this?
No need to be rude, I never neglected you're statement, did I ? How about that ?

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Post by Daniel L » 26 Oct 2006 20:23

Oh, it wasn't meant as a dig to anyone. I've now learnt that it might belong to the USAAF troop that landed with the divisional HQ. I've also read about present day finds in the Arnhem battle area of Thompson submachineguns.

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Post by redcoat » 26 Oct 2006 21:50

I've read that the M1 carbine wasn't a standard weapon of the British airborne forces, but that it was issued to a number of specialist soldiers who landed with the airborne, like glider pilots.

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Post by Daniel L » 26 Oct 2006 23:26

Where did you read it? Any further information? I'm currently on the lookout for descriptions of how the airborne units at Arnhem were equipped.

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Post by PPoS » 28 Oct 2006 14:13

AFAIK, British glider pilots were equipped with Sten submachine guns and American glider pilots were armed with M1 Carbines. But there might have been a small number of British glider pilots equipped with the M1's, however I don't understand why.

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Re:

Post by Empiricist » 28 Feb 2023 11:34

PPoS wrote:
28 Oct 2006 14:13
AFAIK, British glider pilots were equipped with Sten submachine guns and American glider pilots were armed with M1 Carbines. But there might have been a small number of British glider pilots equipped with the M1's, however I don't understand why.
Hard to say if the British GPs were armed with the US M1 carbines. Nothing confirms such a fact. I would be very careful with such an information. There is the only one historic photograph taken in Hartenstein Hotel where a British soldier (not known whether he is GP) has US M1 carbine. Equally well he could have that carbine from dead US para or GP misdropped or mislanded in the British operational sector.

In the same manner it would be impossible to tell that during Market Garden the US paras were equipped with the British Army meatcans or were armed with Bren machine guns despite the fact that such photographs exist.

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Re: Re:

Post by LineDoggie » 28 Feb 2023 19:59

Empiricist wrote:
28 Feb 2023 11:34
PPoS wrote:
28 Oct 2006 14:13
AFAIK, British glider pilots were equipped with Sten submachine guns and American glider pilots were armed with M1 Carbines. But there might have been a small number of British glider pilots equipped with the M1's, however I don't understand why.
Hard to say if the British GPs were armed with the US M1 carbines. Nothing confirms such a fact. I would be very careful with such an information. There is the only one historic photograph taken in Hartenstein Hotel where a British soldier (not known whether he is GP) has US M1 carbine. Equally well he could have that carbine from dead US para or GP misdropped or mislanded in the British operational sector.

In the same manner it would be impossible to tell that during Market Garden the US paras were equipped with the British Army meatcans or were armed with Bren machine guns despite the fact that such photographs exist.
US Lend Lease during WW2 shows 25,362 M1 Carbines given to the UK, this includes M1A1 models as well. This doesnt include non standard means of Issue (Trading/Stealing/Begging) some 174K M1/M2 were also acquired from October 1950 and July 1963 with use in Korea and Malaya, Borneo

At least 1 infantry Battalion in Burma circa 1944 had their OC acquire M1 Carbines for all his Officers and NCO's with sufficient magazines and ammo
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
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Re: M1 and M1A1 carbine in use by British airborne?

Post by Empiricist » 28 Feb 2023 23:35

Entire CBI and PTO were the theatres of fantastic mix of the US and British equipment, field gear and weapon changed between Allied servicemen. The US paras with British water bottles; Chindits with US M1942 machetes, etc., etc., etc.

Yes, the Chindits used US .30 M1 Carbines. What can be seen they received early M1 models with Type II thin stocks, not so-called "pregnant" ones. The same early M1s had US glider pilots and the other US servicemen taking part in Operation Thursday.

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Re: M1 and M1A1 carbine in use by British airborne?

Post by LineDoggie » 01 Mar 2023 00:59

Empiricist wrote:
28 Feb 2023 23:35
Entire CBI and PTO were the theatres of fantastic mix of the US and British equipment, field gear and weapon changed between Allied servicemen. The US paras with British water bottles; Chindits with US M1942 machetes, etc., etc., etc.

Yes, the Chindits used US .30 M1 Carbines. What can be seen they received early M1 models with Type II thin stocks, not so-called "pregnant" ones. The same early M1s had US glider pilots and the other US servicemen taking part in Operation Thursday.
Pregnant stocks , called potbelly were made cut for the M2 Select Fire carbine and postwar were used for M1/M2 carbines as a default replacement part.

Why exactly a US soldier would want a British Waterbottle with its crude cork stopper is a mystery
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

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