Luftwaffe aces' overclaiming.....

[hucks216]

Where did you hear that story ? Sounds like a Chinese tale...

Hans Rudel achievements were very well detailed and followed by his entire StG 2 Immelmann Unit.

Just because they were followed by his unit doesn't make them genuine. Where are the actual confirmation details as carried out by post war research compared to Soviet losses?
Just because Rudel said it happened doesn't mean it did.

[LineDoggie]

Just because they were followed by his unit doesn't make them genuine. Where are the actual confirmation details as carried out by post war research compared to Soviet losses?
Just because Rudel said it happened doesn't mean it did.

So we trust Soviets records to be absolutely truthful? why should we trust their records of losses

[von thoma]

Even more so that the Soviets went in for elaborate fake tank mock-ups stuffed full of ignitable material and wet straw to produce a nice black smoking fire when hit so as to persuade the likes of Rudel that they were doing a grand job of destroying the enemy; effectively drawing attention away from the real tanks.

Rudel developed special tactics to attack the Russian tanks, from their weaker rear and trying to hit and neutralize the engines.
He fired Tungsten core ammunition, ' Wolfram' in his words, how could he set fire to those supposed fake Russian tanks ?
Personally I don't think Rudel is an example for ' overclaiming line '.

[hucks216]

So we trust Soviets records to be absolutely truthful? why should we trust their records of losses

So we just take the word of a hardcore Nazi who knew full well that the awards system rewarded people for their propaganda value?
As distrustful as the Soviets may have been I would imagine that they still kept some form of accurate records at the time. Whether they shared them with anyone is another matter.

[hucks216]

An interesting thread that covers the overclaiming of German tank busters at Kursk:

http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/ubb/Forum ... 00016.html

[LineDoggie]

So we trust Soviets records to be absolutely truthful? why should we trust their records of losses

So we just take the word of a hardcore Nazi who knew full well that the awards system rewarded people for their propaganda value?
As distrustful as the Soviets may have been I would imagine that they still kept some form of accurate records at the time. Whether they shared them with anyone is another matter.

My Point is you're so willing to discredit the man for purely political reasons and willing to take Soviet records as gospel truth because as we know the Soviets never lied nosiree never

Why that female sniper shot 100 officers, no privates, or sergeants, yesiree

In Rudels case there is witnesses correct?

[von thoma]

IMHO, Two pilots suspected of 'overclaiming ' for propaganda reasons are Gordon Gollob ( the first fighter pilot in history to reach
the figure of 150 victories ), and Hermann Graf ( the first fighter pilot in history to reach the figure of 200 victories ).
And by chance, they both received ' Brillanten '.' The Afrika star ' could also be involved, also awarded with diamonds ( posthumously ).

[Mark in Cleveland, Tn.]

IMHO, Two pilots suspected of 'overclaiming ' for propaganda reasons are Gordon Gollob ( the first fighter pilot in history to reach
the figure of 150 victories ), and Hermann Graf ( the first fighter pilot in history to reach the figure of 200 victories ).
And by chance, they both received ' Brillanten '.' The Afrika star ' could also be involved, also awarded with diamonds ( posthumously ).

agreed, IThere are several videos (1ST person accounts by the actual still livig at the time (of course) filmed in the 60's and early 70's by the WW2 luft.
pilots themselves that all stated most all the pilts with hundred, 200 air kilss the totals were exagarated.Just like the kills by Panzer aces, many were NOT confirmed (Whittmann) for example on Gernam You Tube

[G, Y?]

Only the Creator knows the troof about scores.

Hans Jochaim Marseille is among the pilots whose scores were compared against RAF losses. It didn't look good.

[LAstryAGAIN]

Overclaiming ON 18 aUGUST 1940 the RAF and The Luftwaffe claimed to have inflicted losses of over 144 aircraft on each side...fact each had overclaimed by 50%!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmat ... rld_War_II :roll: