SD/ Sipo combat tunics

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Jawol
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SD/ Sipo combat tunics

Post by Jawol » 26 May 2023 09:16

Hello. I was wondering if someone extremely knowledgeable can help me in identifying what exactly an SD combat tunic might have looked like. I’m thinking of basic guard units outside of maybe an SD office or in some occupied territories; what exactly would they have worn?

My best guess is , depending on the time, m36/m43 tunic OR classic open collar m37 Sd/ ssvt/ allgemeine tunic, along side Jack boots or low boots and an m40 cap or m43 cap- with blank collar tabs on tunic and police boards and Sd sleeve diamond without piping? ( maybe with piping I’m not sure if someone could help me I’d be very thankful)

Is this accurate?

Btw, was there ever an SD Mann ? I’ve only seen boards that start at sturmann and apparently the sds rank system started there, so what exactly would a guard wear, aka someone of the lowest level ? I’d imagine infront of an Sd building or office not every single guard unit would be sturmann ?

I’m asking specifically if the double blank collar tabs were worn and if that was a thing


Anyone that can help, I’d be very thankful

Erich2019
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Re: SD/ Sipo combat tunics

Post by Erich2019 » 26 May 2023 14:44

The best example would be field tunics worn by members of the SS-Einsatzgruppen which included SD of all ranks along with Polizei and W-SS personnel. So basically A-SS field grey tunics with SS/SD insignia.

Erich

Jawol
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Re: SD/ Sipo combat tunics

Post by Jawol » 28 May 2023 20:06

Erich2019 wrote:
26 May 2023 14:44
The best example would be field tunics worn by members of the SS-Einsatzgruppen which included SD of all ranks along with Polizei and W-SS personnel. So basically A-SS field grey tunics with SS/SD insignia.

Erich


When you say A-ss tunics, you mean open collar m37/m39 SSVT tunics for early war and then m40-m43 tunics for late early-war to end war period?

I ask because the Sd used open collar tunics for the early war period and all throughout the war, officers especially, but it’s my understanding that both enlisted men and officers began using army style combat tunics at some point during the war, my guess is around 1941-1942 army pattern tunics were authorized but I don’t know the exact dates

Peter
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Re: SD/ Sipo combat tunics

Post by Peter » 04 Jun 2023 18:18

SD/Sipo members involved in anti-partisan combat wore uniforms very similar to the Waffen-SS, many not open collar, but obviously wore the SD raute on their sleeve and a blank collar patch instead of the runic collar patch. There were SD men at all ranks and blank collar patches on both sides were not uncommon, some wore combat awards such as EK1 & 2, Close Combat Clasp, Infantry Assault Badge, etc.

Units operated under the HSSPF.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=60635&hilit=schmit

Jawol
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Re: SD/ Sipo combat tunics

Post by Jawol » 18 Jun 2023 02:34

Peter wrote:
04 Jun 2023 18:18
SD/Sipo members involved in anti-partisan combat wore uniforms very similar to the Waffen-SS, many not open collar, but obviously wore the SD raute on their sleeve and a blank collar patch instead of the runic collar patch. There were SD men at all ranks and blank collar patches on both sides were not uncommon, some wore combat awards such as EK1 & 2, Close Combat Clasp, Infantry Assault Badge, etc.

Units operated under the HSSPF.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=60635&hilit=schmit
Thank you , so basically they were in normal ss combat tunics with Sd insignia?

Kind of technical, but how common was it for them to be wearing m37 Sd/ ssvt tunics just with the buttons closed at the front? Because that at first glance can be mistaken for normal ss uniforms even though they are the ssvt m37 cut. The only difference with the collars closed would be the buttons , which would be 4 as opposed to 5 for the wSS combat tunics.

So to clarify they were in m40-m42-m43 closed collar for the most part , and not only the m37s with some guys wearing them closed collars and some leaving them open? It’s a small distinction but important?

Also insofar as headgear, they wore the standards m40 side caps and m43 field caps? Or were they inclined to for some reason stick to only the prewar/ early war style side caps ?

diwe
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Re: SD/ Sipo combat tunics

Post by diwe » 17 Oct 2023 01:43

Peter wrote:
04 Jun 2023 18:18
SD/Sipo members involved in anti-partisan combat wore uniforms very similar to the Waffen-SS, many not open collar, but obviously wore the SD raute on their sleeve and a blank collar patch instead of the runic collar patch. There were SD men at all ranks and blank collar patches on both sides were not uncommon, some wore combat awards such as EK1 & 2, Close Combat Clasp, Infantry Assault Badge, etc.

Units operated under the HSSPF.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=60635&hilit=schmit
Peter, I was wondering if you had members of the SD with closed Waffen-SS Feldblusen who would NOT wear a sleeve diamond. Would that be a former Gestapo member who was not a full-SS member transferred to an SD unit or were there cases in which units removed the sleeve diamond to not become targets of the partisans. Enclosed is an SD tunic (with correct collar and shoulder boards) that lacks any trace of a sleeve diamond OR sleeve band for that matter. Thanks for the help! Imagedownload/file.php?mode=view&id=544337
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Peter
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Re: SD/ Sipo combat tunics

Post by Peter » 17 Oct 2023 15:04

Many German SS officers attached to volunteer divisions wore tunics similar to the one shown above. The blank collar patch can be VERY misleading.

diwe
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Re: SD/ Sipo combat tunics

Post by diwe » 18 Oct 2023 01:11

Greetings and thanks for the reply. What would be your interpretation of the underlay of the shoulder boards in SD green?

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