Market Garden had Succeded...?

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LAstryAGAIN
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Market Garden had Succeded...?

Post by LAstryAGAIN » 13 Sep 2023 16:37

COuld it have succeded...IF
1) The allied effort had not been restricked to just one road and seven Bridges.....if there and been more similitius river crossing?
2) If the British Intelligence had not ignored the Dutch underground
3) If the Planner for the operation had taken into account 2 Panzer SS Divisions at Arnhem....and instead of Arnhem being the main focus of the Rhine river Crossing it would have been a feint?
4) If the British XXX Corps had not stopped for Tea..during the Arnhem crossing?
5) The Ruhr Would have been captured.... Hitler Couldnt fight without guns......the War in Europe would have ended In 5 months intead of 10>>>

Aber
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Re: Market Garden had Succeded...?

Post by Aber » 13 Sep 2023 16:52

Those are probably the wrong questions.

Main points of failure:
Delay due to blown bridge at Son - needed airborne landings on both sides
Delay due to failure to quickly capture bridges at Nijmegen - needed airborne landings on both sides
Slow build up of airborne forces - needs more lifts per day/ better weather
Attacks on the road corridor - earlier attacks by flanking Corps/ more use of tactical airforces

Best case outcome is a Corps sized bridgehead over the Rhine, with bridgeheads facing east over the Ijssel river; a major psychological blow to the Germans and a threat to the Ruhr, but not decisive.

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T. A. Gardner
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Re: Market Garden had Succeded...?

Post by T. A. Gardner » 17 Sep 2023 04:29

My view is the planning lacked the creation of a dilemma for the Germans. That is, it was a straightforward plan that didn't take the Germans all that long to figure out. Once they did, it was relatively easy for them to defeat it to the extent they could.

What should have been done was the ground assault to break the front goes forward for about 48 hours. This gives enough time that the Germans commit some or all of their available reserves to stopping the breakthrough. Their forces committed to the front, the Allies then start the airborne landings in their rear.

Now, the Germans face a dilemma. Do they continue to fight at the front with their forces, or do they try to withdraw to engage the airborne units in their rear? With the British engaged with their frontline forces, these have a problem disengaging. There are little or no reserves to speak of to deal with the airborne forces so...

The bridges the airborne want to capture are just as valuable to the Germans who are trying to get forces in place to counter the paratroops. 1st Airbourne at Arnheim isn't facing a couple of weak panzer divisions. These are off fighting at the front against the ground attack the British launched.
So, most or all of the bridges fall as they did historically. But there isn't anything to throw immediately into a counter offensive for the Germans to take them back.

Aber
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Re: Market Garden had Succeded...?

Post by Aber » 17 Sep 2023 09:21

T. A. Gardner wrote:
17 Sep 2023 04:29
What should have been done was the ground assault to break the front goes forward for about 48 hours. This gives enough time that the Germans commit some or all of their available reserves to stopping the breakthrough. Their forces committed to the front, the Allies then start the airborne landings in their rear.
The problem with this is that bridges near the front, or on the Allied axis of advance, will be prepared for demolition/guarded/blown eg Son.

The underlying theory of Market Garden was "bridges captured with 'bolt from the blue' airborne landings, and ground forces advancing along a carpet of airborne troops".

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T. A. Gardner
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Re: Market Garden had Succeded...?

Post by T. A. Gardner » 17 Sep 2023 17:54

Aber wrote:
17 Sep 2023 09:21
T. A. Gardner wrote:
17 Sep 2023 04:29
What should have been done was the ground assault to break the front goes forward for about 48 hours. This gives enough time that the Germans commit some or all of their available reserves to stopping the breakthrough. Their forces committed to the front, the Allies then start the airborne landings in their rear.
The problem with this is that bridges near the front, or on the Allied axis of advance, will be prepared for demolition/guarded/blown eg Son.

The underlying theory of Market Garden was "bridges captured with 'bolt from the blue' airborne landings, and ground forces advancing along a carpet of airborne troops".
Then that traps the German forces at the front where they are ground up. Meanwhile at Arnheim and Nijmegen the paratroops face only light resistance because all the stuff they faced originally is now in the meatgrinder with no way out.

The original plan didn't create a dilemma for the Germans. Instead, it was a straight forward, almost, late WW 1 British or French offensive that added paratroops to the mix. We'll break the front and it's off to the green fields beyond!

The pull the German forces to the front then create a pocket trapping them makes it far more difficult for the Germans to extract themselves or fight their way out of it.

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