Database of Kriegsmarine Admirals

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by askropp and Frech.
graveland
Member
Posts: 13564
Joined: 20 Aug 2008 15:07

Re: Char. Vizeadmiral Max Looff (1874-1954)

Post by graveland » 09 Oct 2023 14:16

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
09 Oct 2023 10:15
Max Looff has a Personalakte, but it has not yet been digitized.

1. There also remains the question of the class of his Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918). I always thought he had the version in "Schwarz". Since he is not listed in any of the Reichsmarine Rangliste, it's not possible to check the exact class. However, I have this photo (see the 1st photo below) of his supposed awards. On this photo the Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918) in Gold is visible. It is said these awards belonged to Looff. We have further proof that he was wounded here: https://ww1blog.osborneink.com/?tag=nav ... t&paged=12
The text says: "Less than a half-hour later, a large explosion indicates serious damage; already wounded on the bridge, Looff continues to rally his men until he is knocked unconscious by an abdominal wound. Revived, he orders his men to scuttle the ship."
As you can see, the text says he was wounded at least twice, with the second wound being very serious.
Another thing is how the Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918) looks on the few photos we have of Looff (see the 2nd photo below). It looks too bright to be the version in "Schwarz". Based only on the photos of the badge in wear, it could then be "Silber" or "Gold".
After taking into consideration his photos, the photo of his supposed awards and the explanation of his multiple woundings, I believe he was awarded the Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918) in Gold. Do you agree we change the class of this award from "Schwarz" to "Gold" for Looff?
Yes, I do.

User avatar
Requin Marteau
Member
Posts: 3684
Joined: 03 Jul 2002 10:52
Location: FRANCE

Re: Char. Vizeadmiral Max Looff (1874-1954)

Post by Requin Marteau » 10 Oct 2023 08:52

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
09 Oct 2023 10:15
Max Looff has a Personalakte, but it has not yet been digitized. When it does, I will revisit his award list.
In the meantime, I will add some dates from the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste.

- Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden IV. Klasse am Bande der Rettungsmedaille (08. 02. 1902)


1. There also remains the question of the class of his Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918). I always thought he had the version in "Schwarz". Since he is not listed in any of the Reichsmarine Rangliste, it's not possible to check the exact class. However, I have this photo (see the 1st photo below) of his supposed awards. On this photo the Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918) in Gold is visible. It is said these awards belonged to Looff. We have further proof that he was wounded here: https://ww1blog.osborneink.com/?tag=nav ... t&paged=12
The text says: "Less than a half-hour later, a large explosion indicates serious damage; already wounded on the bridge, Looff continues to rally his men until he is knocked unconscious by an abdominal wound. Revived, he orders his men to scuttle the ship."
As you can see, the text says he was wounded at least twice, with the second wound being very serious.
Another thing is how the Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918) looks on the few photos we have of Looff (see the 2nd photo below). It looks too bright to be the version in "Schwarz". Based only on the photos of the badge in wear, it could then be "Silber" or "Gold".
After taking into consideration his photos, the photo of his supposed awards and the explanation of his multiple woundings, I believe he was awarded the Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918) in Gold. Do you agree we change the class of this award from "Schwarz" to "Gold" for Looff?
 Preussischer Kronenorden Kreuz 4. kl (8 février 1902),
 Preussischer Kronenorden Kreuz 4. kl am Bande d. Rettungsmedaille (2 août 1907).

For the wounded badge, we know that he received at least 2 wounds during a naval combat, subsequently he could have been injured during the fighting on land, for me he received either the black or silver badge. I have doubts about the award of the gold badge.
https://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Orden/vwa.html
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral
Member
Posts: 3126
Joined: 28 Feb 2017 14:17
Location: Croatia

Re: Char. Vizeadmiral Max Looff (1874-1954)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 10 Oct 2023 09:55

Requin Marteau wrote:
10 Oct 2023 08:52
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
09 Oct 2023 10:15
Max Looff has a Personalakte, but it has not yet been digitized. When it does, I will revisit his award list.
In the meantime, I will add some dates from the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste.

- Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden IV. Klasse am Bande der Rettungsmedaille (08. 02. 1902)


1. There also remains the question of the class of his Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918). I always thought he had the version in "Schwarz". Since he is not listed in any of the Reichsmarine Rangliste, it's not possible to check the exact class. However, I have this photo (see the 1st photo below) of his supposed awards. On this photo the Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918) in Gold is visible. It is said these awards belonged to Looff. We have further proof that he was wounded here: https://ww1blog.osborneink.com/?tag=nav ... t&paged=12
The text says: "Less than a half-hour later, a large explosion indicates serious damage; already wounded on the bridge, Looff continues to rally his men until he is knocked unconscious by an abdominal wound. Revived, he orders his men to scuttle the ship."
As you can see, the text says he was wounded at least twice, with the second wound being very serious.
Another thing is how the Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918) looks on the few photos we have of Looff (see the 2nd photo below). It looks too bright to be the version in "Schwarz". Based only on the photos of the badge in wear, it could then be "Silber" or "Gold".
After taking into consideration his photos, the photo of his supposed awards and the explanation of his multiple woundings, I believe he was awarded the Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918) in Gold. Do you agree we change the class of this award from "Schwarz" to "Gold" for Looff?
 Preussischer Kronenorden Kreuz 4. kl (8 février 1902),
 Preussischer Kronenorden Kreuz 4. kl am Bande d. Rettungsmedaille (2 août 1907).

For the wounded badge, we know that he received at least 2 wounds during a naval combat, subsequently he could have been injured during the fighting on land, for me he received either the black or silver badge. I have doubts about the award of the gold badge.
https://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Orden/vwa.html
Please post the source for the two dates of the Kronenorden you listed above (08. 02. 1902 and 02. 08. 1907).
Why do you have doubts about the Marineverwundetenabzeichen in Gold? It is clearly visible in the photo of Looff's awards I posted on the previous page. It's can't be the version in Schwarz because the badge in the photos of Looff wearing it is too bright.
By the way, the link you provided is for the 1939 Verwundetenabzeichen.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral

User avatar
Requin Marteau
Member
Posts: 3684
Joined: 03 Jul 2002 10:52
Location: FRANCE

Re: Char. Vizeadmiral Max Looff (1874-1954)

Post by Requin Marteau » 10 Oct 2023 11:25

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
10 Oct 2023 09:55
Please post the source for the two dates of the Kronenorden you listed above (08. 02. 1902 and 02. 08. 1907).
Why do you have doubts about the Marineverwundetenabzeichen in Gold? It is clearly visible in the photo of Looff's awards I posted on the previous page. It's can't be the version in Schwarz because the badge in the photos of Looff wearing it is too bright.
By the way, the link you provided is for the 1939 Verwundetenabzeichen.
The medal bar is clearly not his (Number 50 on his KO4- photo), I have doubts about the cohesion of the lot.
I put the link to show that the awarding of the wounded badge had rules, and that for him to receive the gold badge, he had to be injured several times (>5) or even amputated ( no info for this), we are talking about 2 injuries in one day (for Looff), so for me at best he received the silver badge.
For the award dates, it seems to me that it was on medal.net (but I couldn't find the link).

User avatar
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral
Member
Posts: 3126
Joined: 28 Feb 2017 14:17
Location: Croatia

Re: Char. Vizeadmiral Max Looff (1874-1954)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 10 Oct 2023 11:36

Requin Marteau wrote:
10 Oct 2023 11:25
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
10 Oct 2023 09:55
Please post the source for the two dates of the Kronenorden you listed above (08. 02. 1902 and 02. 08. 1907).
Why do you have doubts about the Marineverwundetenabzeichen in Gold? It is clearly visible in the photo of Looff's awards I posted on the previous page. It's can't be the version in Schwarz because the badge in the photos of Looff wearing it is too bright.
By the way, the link you provided is for the 1939 Verwundetenabzeichen.
The medal bar is clearly not his (Number 50 on his KO4- photo), I have doubts about the cohesion of the lot.
I put the link to show that the awarding of the wounded badge had rules, and that for him to receive the gold badge, he had to be injured several times (>5) or even amputated ( no info for this), we are talking about 2 injuries in one day (for Looff), so for me at best he received the silver badge.
For the award dates, it seems to me that it was on medal.net (but I couldn't find the link).
Ok then, we can agree on Silber for the Marineverwundetenabzeichen. This is the version that is listed for Looff in the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste, although only based on photographic evidence.

Regarding your date for the Preussischer Kronenorden Kreuz 4. kl am Bande d. Rettungsmedaille: 02. 08. 1907. After checking the Rangliste, this date is not possible.
This award is first listed for Looff in the 1907 Rangliste, which was published on 6 May 1907 (see the 1st photo below). Therefore, your date is surely wrong, because it suggests he received it after the publication of the 1907 Rangliste (in August). If that was the case, it would not be listed for him in the 1907 Rangliste. Rather, it would first be listed in the 1908 Rangliste.
I also checked the 1906 Nachtrag Rangliste, which was published on 27 October 1906 (see the 2nd photo below). Here, only the KO4 is listed for Looff (without the RM part), which means he received the KO4 am Bande der Rettungsmedaille sometime between 27 October 1906 and 6 May 1907. But the exact date is unknown.

Regarding the source for the two dates of his KO4, didn't you say you have the hardback edition of the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste? Please check there for the dates of Looff's awards.
See the 3rd photo below to see the entries for Looff in the Excel version of the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste I have. The same date is written for both the KO4 and the KO4 RM. I guess the 1902 date is correct for the KO4, but not for the KO4 RM.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral

User avatar
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral
Member
Posts: 3126
Joined: 28 Feb 2017 14:17
Location: Croatia

Re: Char. Vizeadmiral Max Looff (1874-1954)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 11 Oct 2023 09:52

askropp, please update Looff's awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.
Please also delete all the text at the bottom of his list: "The Ehrenzeichen der NSDAP is visible on the Bundesarchiv photo...".


Char. Vizeadmiral Max Looff (1874-1954) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2182672&hi ... f#p2182672

-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Erinnerungsmedaille (Zentenarmedaille) 1897 (22. 03. 1897)
-Königlich Preußische Rettungsmedaille am Bande (26. 11. 1900)
-China-Denkmünze in Bronze mit Spange „TAKU“, „OSTASIEN 1900/01“, „PEITANG-FORTS“
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden IV. Klasse (08. 02. 1902)
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden IV. Klasse am Bande der Rettungsmedaille
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse (16. 01. 1910)
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Kolonial-Denkmünze
-Hamburgisches Hanseatenkreuz
-Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918) in Silber
-Kolonialabzeichen (Elefantenorden)
-Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer
-Ehrenzeichen der NSDAP
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral

User avatar
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral
Member
Posts: 3126
Joined: 28 Feb 2017 14:17
Location: Croatia

Vizeadmiral (Ing.) Dr.rer.pol. Gustav Lüttge (1890-1963)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 11 Oct 2023 10:04

Gustav Lüttge has a Personalakte, but I could find only one award mentioned in it.

I need help determining which award this is.

- Bulgarischer Kriegsverdienstorden II. Klasse mit Kriegsdekoration

Could it be the Großoffizierskreuz des Königlich Bulgarischen Militär-Verdienstordens mit der Kriegsdekoration?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral on 11 Oct 2023 16:15, edited 2 times in total.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral

graveland
Member
Posts: 13564
Joined: 20 Aug 2008 15:07

Re: Vizeadmiral (Ing.) Dr.rer.pol. Gustav Lüttge (1890-1963)

Post by graveland » 11 Oct 2023 12:51

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
11 Oct 2023 10:04
Gustav Lüttge has a Personalakte, but I could find only one award mentioned in it.

Could it be the Großoffizierskreuz des Königlich Bulgarischen Militär-Verdienstordens mit der Kriegsdekoration?
Yes, it is.

User avatar
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral
Member
Posts: 3126
Joined: 28 Feb 2017 14:17
Location: Croatia

Re: Vizeadmiral (Ing.) Dr.rer.pol. Gustav Lüttge (1890-1963)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 11 Oct 2023 14:27

graveland wrote:
11 Oct 2023 12:51
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
11 Oct 2023 10:04
Gustav Lüttge has a Personalakte, but I could find only one award mentioned in it.

Could it be the Großoffizierskreuz des Königlich Bulgarischen Militär-Verdienstordens mit der Kriegsdekoration?
Yes, it is.
It was just a suggestion. Perhaps it is some other Bulgarian medal/order.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral

graveland
Member
Posts: 13564
Joined: 20 Aug 2008 15:07

Re: Vizeadmiral (Ing.) Dr.rer.pol. Gustav Lüttge (1890-1963)

Post by graveland » 11 Oct 2023 14:34

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
11 Oct 2023 10:04
The Bulgarisches Kriegsverdienstkreuz II. Klasse mit Kriegsdekoration
That medal does not exist.

User avatar
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral
Member
Posts: 3126
Joined: 28 Feb 2017 14:17
Location: Croatia

Re: Vizeadmiral (Ing.) Dr.rer.pol. Gustav Lüttge (1890-1963)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 11 Oct 2023 15:27

graveland wrote:
11 Oct 2023 14:34
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
11 Oct 2023 10:04
The Bulgarisches Kriegsverdienstkreuz II. Klasse mit Kriegsdekoration
That medal does not exist.
I know.
It could also be the Bulgarischer Militärorden für Tapferkeit, for example.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral

graveland
Member
Posts: 13564
Joined: 20 Aug 2008 15:07

Re: Vizeadmiral (Ing.) Dr.rer.pol. Gustav Lüttge (1890-1963)

Post by graveland » 11 Oct 2023 15:31

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
11 Oct 2023 15:27
I know. It could also be the Bulgarischer Militärorden für Tapferkeit, for example.
I don't think so.

User avatar
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral
Member
Posts: 3126
Joined: 28 Feb 2017 14:17
Location: Croatia

Re: Vizeadmiral (Ing.) Dr.rer.pol. Gustav Lüttge (1890-1963)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 11 Oct 2023 16:00

graveland wrote:
11 Oct 2023 15:31
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
11 Oct 2023 15:27
I know. It could also be the Bulgarischer Militärorden für Tapferkeit, for example.
I don't think so.
You are right, it is the Großoffizierskreuz des Königlich Bulgarischen Militär-Verdienstordens mit der Kriegsdekoration.
I just read what it says once again. It says "Kriegsverdienstorden", not "Kriegsverdienstkreuz" like I read the first time.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral

User avatar
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral
Member
Posts: 3126
Joined: 28 Feb 2017 14:17
Location: Croatia

Re: Vizeadmiral (Ing.) Dr.rer.pol. Gustav Lüttge (1890-1963)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 11 Oct 2023 16:10

askropp, please update Lüttge's awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.

Vizeadmiral (Ing.) Dr.rer.pol. Gustav Lüttge (1890-1963) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2182688&hi ... e#p2182688

-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse
-U-Bootskriegsabzeichen (1918)
-Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung IV. bis I. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)
-Großoffizierskreuz des Königlich Bulgarischen Militär-Verdienstordens mit der Kriegsdekoration
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral

User avatar
Requin Marteau
Member
Posts: 3684
Joined: 03 Jul 2002 10:52
Location: FRANCE

Re: Vizeadmiral (Ing.) Dr.rer.pol. Gustav Lüttge (1890-1963)

Post by Requin Marteau » 12 Oct 2023 07:13

graveland wrote:
11 Oct 2023 12:51
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
11 Oct 2023 10:04
Gustav Lüttge has a Personalakte, but I could find only one award mentioned in it.

Could it be the Großoffizierskreuz des Königlich Bulgarischen Militär-Verdienstordens mit der Kriegsdekoration?
Yes, it is.
Yes, it is.

Return to “The Dieter Zinke Axis Biographical Research Section”