A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

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Raynal Calvert
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A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by Raynal Calvert » 13 Oct 2023 10:54

Hello,
Let me introduce myself I'm Raynal Calvert and I've published a new book on the Holocaust: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger.
I'll be happy to discuss it with members of the board.
Here is the blurb, as it appears on the back cover of the book.

With the notable exceptions of Raul Hilberg who put the number of Jewish deaths at 5,100,000 and Gerald Reitlinger who proposed low and high estimates (4,204,400 to 4,575,400 victims) most authors concur that about 6,000,000 Jews were murdered in World War II, the majority of them with poison gas in death camps or by mobile shooting units.
The specialists of the Holocaust have generally reached their counts on a per-country basis, which poses a problem since, from 1938 onwards and after the end of the war, Europe was subject to many border changes. The number of victims advanced often comes of subtracting the number of survivors in various countries after 1945 from their prewar populations. The literature is thus full of double counts of victims between the USSR and Poland, and also between Hungary, Romania and Slovakia. Reliable sources giving precise vital statistics on European countries and correct Jewish immigration and refugee figures for the 1930s and during the war, notably into Africa, Asia and Latin America, are yet available. Official sources in German, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, French, Polish, Romanian, Hungarian and Russian abound, allowing for rectifications of blatant gaps in the historiography of the Holocaust.
Making use of many sources in several languages and studying thoroughly the death tolls of death camps, shooting units or attrition in ghettos, the author has been able to find that the number of Jewish victims was very close to Gerald Reitlinger’s high estimate, proving the latter author to have been, in this respect, the most accurate Holocaust scholar.

Raynal Calvert
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Re: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by Raynal Calvert » 13 Oct 2023 20:11

I forgot to tell you, the book can be ordered from Barnes and Noble for $19.99.

Larry D.
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Re: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by Larry D. » 14 Oct 2023 14:57

Gerald Reitlinger, born 1900, died 1978.
His 3 books on Nazi Germany were written between 1953 and 1960 and are, indeed, well-researched at the time, well-composed historical works. I read all 3 of them some 50+ years ago. But wouldn't you agree that even with new data brought to light since the 'sixties the total number of Holocaust victims can never be more than an educated estimate, that the true number will never be known? If the scholarly community is comfortable with the 6,000,000 figure, then we should probably let it be. The variance between 4,575,000 and 6,000,000 isn't dramatically and impossibly amiss or out of line.

L. deZ.

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Re: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by wwilson » 14 Oct 2023 16:47

Hello Raynal,

Congratulations on getting your book published.

If I may ask (out of curiosity), are you a scholar or other academic ? Knowing something of your background would be useful in terms of deciding to purchase your work.

Regards--

Raynal Calvert
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Re: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by Raynal Calvert » 14 Oct 2023 17:54

First of all thank you for your interest.

Gerald Reitlinger, born 1900, died 1978.
His 3 books on Nazi Germany were written between 1953 and 1960 and are, indeed, well-researched at the time, well-composed historical works. I read all 3 of them some 50+ years ago. But wouldn't you agree that even with new data brought to light since the 'sixties the total number of Holocaust victims can never be more than an educated estimate, that the true number will never be known?


The true, exact number probably not. However, from all the sources I have gathered a very close number can be obtained.

If the scholarly community is comfortable with the 6,000,000 figure, then we should probably let it be. The variance between 4,575,000 and 6,000,000 isn't dramatically and impossibly amiss or out of line.

On this I disagree. Being comfortable with the 6,000,000 figure doesn't mean that truth in history shouldn't be established.

Raynal Calvert
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Re: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by Raynal Calvert » 14 Oct 2023 18:00

wwilson
If I may ask (out of curiosity), are you a scholar or other academic ? Knowing something of your background would be useful in terms of deciding to purchase your work.


Hello wwilson,
Yes I'm a retired teacher and researcher in a well-known university.

Biber
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Re: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by Biber » 14 Oct 2023 22:18

wwilson wrote:
14 Oct 2023 16:47
If I may ask (out of curiosity), are you a scholar or other academic ? Knowing something of your background would be useful in terms of deciding to purchase your work.
A bit rude don't you think?

Raynal Calvert
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Re: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by Raynal Calvert » 15 Oct 2023 10:09

Dear Biber,

Not at all, you all have the right to ask such questions.

Biber
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Re: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by Biber » 15 Oct 2023 12:17

I agree, asking about one's pedigree is wholly acceptable. But the suggestion t one feels they need such information to determine whether or not to by the book is, in my opinion quite sad and pathetic. And to admit that to the author, rude indeed.

I wish you all the best with your book.

Raynal Calvert
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Re: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by Raynal Calvert » 15 Oct 2023 15:16

Thank you for your encouragement, Biber.

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Re: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by steve248 » 20 Oct 2023 17:05

In the books and papers I have produced I have no difficulty quoting Reitlinger (or Raul Hilberg).
Both authors used Nuremberg material, testimonies and documentation. At the time of their writing this was all that was available. Since that time West German trials, trial testimonies and new documents, new archival sources and opening of intelligence agency files have all contributed to new views on the Holocaust.

Out of interest, something I was told long ago. Reitlinger lived here in the UK in a house with thatched roof. There was fire at the house and the thatched roof contributed to it being completed burned out turning all his papers to ash.

Raynal Calvert
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Re: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by Raynal Calvert » 22 Oct 2023 21:50

At the time of their writing this was all that was available. Since that time West German trials, trial testimonies and new documents, new archival sources and opening of intelligence agency files have all contributed to new views on the Holocaust

And yet I assure you that the many sources in different languages I've used show that the number of Jewish victims wiped out by the Nazis and their allies (chiefly Romania, Hungary and Croatia) comes close to 4,500,000 people.
Cheers.

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Re: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by GreenOwl » 23 Oct 2023 20:26

Good evening.
I have some questions on you.
DISCLAIMER: I don't think nothing bad about You. I definitely don't think that you are like Holocaust deniers.
Standard estimations of Holocaust victims range between 5 million and 6 million, not always close to 6 million.
Roughly number of Holocaust victims by countries:
USSR in August 1939 borders + Baltic states: 960,000 [USSR census shortly before the war started (3,020,000) and Baltic states Jewish population (~250,000) and expectable natural increase of Soviet Jewry in greater USSR in 1939-1941 (~140,000, 4,750,000 in 1939, average annual natural increase 1.5 percent), minus probable population 2,200,000 in 1945 (2,268,000 in 1959, average annual natural increase of Soviet Jewry, excluding children from mixed marriages, in 1945-1959 was roughly 0.2 percent according to Lucjan Dobroszycki and Jeffery S. Gurock) and minus 250,000 Jewish WW2 deaths not related to the Holocaust (according to the same authors 90,000 Soviet-Jewish soldiers killed in battles, 100,000 Jews killed in bombings or war-related starvations and 60,000 excees deaths of Jews evacuated by Soviets)].
Poland: 2,900,000-3,150,000 (according to 1931 census 3,137,000 Jews by religion lived in Poland, so excluding non-religious and baptized Jews, according to Joseph Marcus was the actual number at least 3,250,000. After the last census and before the last weeks before the war 145,000 Polish Jews emigrated, 33,000 Polish Jews immigrated to the British Mandate Palestine in 1939-1948, official annual natural increase of Polish Jews was 0.9 percent, according to many sources, due to incomplete birth statictics, the actual was 1.3 percent, 210,000 Jews, after taking into account some double-counts, were in Poland in 1946, 40,000 Polish Jews liberated outside Poland refuted to return, 100,000 Polish Jews were repatriated from the USSR in 1947-1958).
Romania (excluding areas annexed by Hungary in 1940): ~164,000 (14,000 victims of Iasi pogrom and roughly 150,000 deaths of Romanian Jews in Transnistria, who aren't included in Soviet figures).
Greece: ~50,000.
Yugoslavia: 54,000 (82,000 in pre-Yugoslavia, 14,000 in Greater Hungary, 14,000 survived).
Greater Hungary: 414,000 (437,000 transported in Spring 1944 in transports, which didn't impact Budapest, from 187,000 Budapest Jews 119,000 remained in the city until liberation, from all deported Hungarian Jews 116,000 survived, 25,000 Hungarian Jews perished as forced laborers for Hungarian army).
Slovak State: 70,000 (57,000 transported from Slovakia in 1942, from whose only several 100s survived, 14,000 transported from Slovakia in 1944, from whose 4,000 survived, several 1,000s murdered by Einsatzgruppen H in Slovak territory).
The Protectorate: over 70,000 (73,500 transported to Theresienstadt, without passing Theresienstadt 5,000 to Lodz, 1,000 to Ujazdow, 1,000 to Minsk, several 100s to Nisko, 6,900 liberated to Theresienstadt, 3,400 returned from concentration camps).
Altreich+Ostmark: 197,000 (deported+remaining inthe beginning of 1943 according to the Korherr report minus roughly 10,000 survivors).
Italy: 7,000.
France: 72,000 (75,000 deported minus just several 1,000s survivors).
Netherlands: 102,000 (107,000 deported minus 5,000 survivors).
Belgium: 23,000 (25,000 deported minus several 1,000s survivors).
In addition 1,000s in smaller areas.
Total number of the Holocaust victims according to this calculation: 5,090,000 to 5,340,000.
Do you think that some numbers of pre-war population or number of deportees in the calculation above are too high? Or that some numbers of surviving Jews or post-war Jewish populations are too low? Or that Jewish losses during the WW2 not related to the Holocaust were much higher than 250,000?
Also, I read part of Reitlinger's book and found an error related to Czech Jews. He wrote that 15,500 Jews from the Protectorate were spared from deportation until liberation. It was from Korherr report showing number of Jews remaining in the Protectorate (excluding Theresienstadt) in the end of 1942. But Reitlinger didn't take into account that transports of Jews from the Protectorate continued also in 1943-1945, even most of Jews living in mixed marriages were deported to Theresienstadt in the beginning of 1945. Only 3,500 Protectorate Jews both legally and illegaly avoided deportation until liberation.

Raynal Calvert
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Re: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by Raynal Calvert » 24 Oct 2023 20:46

[i]Good evening.
I have some questions on you.
DISCLAIMER: I don't think nothing bad about You. I definitely don't think that you are like Holocaust deniers.
Standard estimations of Holocaust victims range bet
ween 5 million and 6 million, not always close to 6 million.
Roughly number of Holocaust victims by countries:[/i]

Good evening, GreenOwl. First let it be clear to everyone I'm not a Holocaust denier. I'm fully aware of the tragedy the Jewish people underwent when the Nazis conquered a large chunk of Europe. I feel deep contempt for the lies and manipulations of Holocaust deniers.

USSR in August 1939 borders + Baltic states: 960,000 [USSR census shortly before the war started (3,020,000) and Baltic states Jewish population (~250,000) and expectable natural increase of Soviet Jewry in greater USSR in 1939-1941 (~140,000, 4,750,000 in 1939, average annual natural increase 1.5 percent), minus probable population 2,200,000 in 1945 (2,268,000 in 1959, average annual natural increase of Soviet Jewry, excluding children from mixed marriages, in 1945-1959 was roughly 0.2 percent according to Lucjan Dobroszycki and Jeffery S. Gurock) and minus 250,000 Jewish WW2 deaths not related to the Holocaust (according to the same authors 90,000 Soviet-Jewish soldiers killed in battles, 100,000 Jews killed in bombings or war-related starvations and 60,000 excees deaths of Jews evacuated by Soviets)].

About Jewish losses in the USSR, it should be noted that the Korherr report gives (in covert language) a much lower amount of deaths than the Einsatzgruppen had claimed for 1941-1942. Besides, there was a significant decrease in Jewish births from 1941 to 1945 and from 1946 to 1959. Many Jews married Gentiles after the war and quite a few of them lost their attachment to Jewry. A few thousand of generally old Jews were also allowed to leave the USSR after the war to reunite with relatives living abroad. And hundreds of thousands of Polish Jews (and to a lesser extent Romanian Jews) were repatriated after the war (see below)

Poland: 2,900,000-3,150,000 (according to 1931 census 3,137,000 Jews by religion lived in Poland, so excluding non-religious and baptized Jews, according to Joseph Marcus was the actual number at least 3,250,000. After the last census and before the last weeks before the war 145,000 Polish Jews emigrated, 33,000 Polish Jews immigrated to the British Mandate Palestine in 1939-1948, official annual natural increase of Polish Jews was 0.9 percent, according to many sources, due to incomplete birth statictics, the actual was 1.3 percent, 210,000 Jews, after taking into account some double-counts, were in Poland in 1946, 40,000 Polish Jews liberated outside Poland refuted to return, 100,000 Polish Jews were repatriated from the USSR in 1947-1958).

I disagree on the number of Polish Jewish victims you have. Thanks to my sources I've been able to find that about 480,000 Polish Jews survived the Holocaust. The USSR agreed to the repatriation of close to 260,000 Polish Jews, in three phases. The last one occurred before the 1959 census. The net figure of Polish Jews who managed to emigrate between 1932 and 1939 is in the neighbourhood of 160,000 people (once deducted those who were expelled to Poland by the Nazis before the beginning of the war or those who first emigrated to France, Belgium, etc., and then overseas. Of course many Polish Jews were deported from France, Belgium and the Netherlands but must be counted in the losses undergone by these countries. Thousands of Jews also managed to slip through Nazi clutches, ending up in Iran, Dutch coloniesor other places.

Romania (excluding areas annexed by Hungary in 1940): ~164,000 (14,000 victims of Iasi pogrom and roughly 150,000 deaths of Romanian Jews in Transnistria, who aren't included in Soviet figures).

The Romanian losses I arrived at are not very different. I ended up with 155,000 victims.

Greece: ~50,000.

Basically agree, although I found more victims.

Yugoslavia: 54,000 (82,000 in pre-Yugoslavia, 14,000 in Greater Hungary, 14,000 survived).

Ditto

Greater Hungary: 414,000 (437,000 transported in Spring 1944 in transports, which didn't impact Budapest, from 187,000 Budapest Jews 119,000 remained in the city until liberation, from all deported Hungarian Jews 116,000 survived, 25,000 Hungarian Jews perished as forced laborers for Hungarian army).

Not all of the Jews deported from Hungary were killed. I found that about one third of them returned from the camps.

Slovak State: 70,000 (57,000 transported from Slovakia in 1942, from whose only several 100s survived, 14,000 transported from Slovakia in 1944, from whose 4,000 survived, several 1,000s murdered by Einsatzgruppen H in Slovak territory).

Definitely an overestimate. About 60,000 Slovak Jews were killed by the Nazis.

The Protectorate: over 70,000 (73,500 transported to Theresienstadt, without passing Theresienstadt 5,000 to Lodz, 1,000 to Ujazdow, 1,000 to Minsk, several 100s to Nisko, 6,900 liberated to Theresienstadt, 3,400 returned from concentration camps).


Correct.

Altreich+Ostmark: 197,000 (deported+remaining inthe beginning of 1943 according to the Korherr report minus roughly 10,000 survivors).

Not all were killed, I found fewer victims and many were counted among the victims of other countries occupied by the Nazis. So we shouldn't add up German-speaking victims deported from Germany and Austria and those who were deported from France, Belgium, the Netherlands, etc.

Italy: 7,000.

Correct

France: 72,000 (75,000 deported minus just several 1,000s survivors).
Netherlands: 102,000 (107,000 deported minus 5,000 survivors).
Belgium: 23,000 (25,000 deported minus several 1,000s survivors).

Correct, but as I said above many were German or Austrian Jews.

In addition 1,000s in smaller areas.
Total number of the Holocaust victims according to this calculation: 5,090,000 to 5,340,000.


Do you think that some numbers of pre-war population or number of deportees in the calculation above are too high? Or that some numbers of surviving Jews or post-war Jewish populations are too low? Or that Jewish losses during the WW2 not related to the Holocaust were much higher than 250,000?

Depends on how you calculate, the number of Soviet Jews in territories not occupied by the Nazis has to be considered. Although I do agree that their losses (whether military or civilian) are definitely linked to the Nazi attack on the USSR. The same goes for the military or civilian losses (the latter being victims of Nazi bombings) of Polish Jews.

Also, I read part of Reitlinger's book and found an error related to Czech Jews. He wrote that 15,500 Jews from the Protectorate were spared from deportation until liberation. It was from Korherr report showing number of Jews remaining in the Protectorate (excluding Theresienstadt) in the end of 1942. But Reitlinger didn't take into account that transports of Jews from the Protectorate continued also in 1943-1945, even most of Jews living in mixed marriages were deported to Theresienstadt in the beginning of 1945. Only 3,500 Protectorate Jews both legally and illegaly avoided deportation until liberation.

Yes, I've taken this into consideration.

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Re: A Vindication of Gerald Reitlinger, a new book on the Holocaust

Post by COmentator » 02 Nov 2023 18:34

Names of 77,297 Jewish victims from Bohemia and Moravia are inscribed on the walls of the Pinkas Synagogue in Prague.
USHMM Holocaust Survivors and Victims Database
About 267 Jews died Patria Disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patria_disaster
Over 780 Jews died Struma disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struma_disaster
Over 300 Jews died Mefkure disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Mefk%C3%BCre [Uboat net reports 305 killed at https://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/5046.html]

The of course were numbers of Jews In Allied Armies killed by the Nazis and their allies for example in the Battle of the Buldge of 5 Jewish servicemen murdered by the Nazis
1 killed while a POW
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/133 ... ie-epstein

4 died in the Malmedy Massacre
Robert Cohen
Solomon Goffman
George Rosenfeld
Max Schwitzgold

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