Berghof Obersalzberg

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 03 Nov 2023 21:04

Thanks very much for the links - I did not know about those!
Geoff
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
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MementoMori
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by MementoMori » 03 Nov 2023 22:57

Hi Geoff.

No problem. Glad to have brought something to the table as a newbie in this well-established forum!

It's useful to have access to the digitised hi-res map. Makes it and so easy to navigate/zoom etc.

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Alpenfestung
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Alpenfestung » 07 Nov 2023 18:49

MementoMori,

Great find! That is the same map I have, except a cleaner copy and better scan. Thanks for posting the links!
"Change is easy.....improvement is far more difficult"
(Ferdinand Porsche)

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Alpenfestung
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Alpenfestung » 07 Nov 2023 19:36

Speaking of maps...there is a nice reproduction of the "Illustrated Map of the Obersalzberg" (I have seen parts of it on Geoff's website) available, it is part of the "Deutschland Archiv" collection of documents:


OSBmapIllustrated01small.jpg

Apologies if this has been discussed before, I haven't had a chance to work my way through all the post of the last few years........
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MementoMori
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by MementoMori » 11 Nov 2023 00:28

Hi Alpenfestung,

Glad you found the links useful. Amazing what has been digitised now and is out there, hidden in plain sight.

Thanks for sharing the hi-res "Illustrated Map of the Obersalzberg". Best copy I've seen.

Much appreciated.

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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by MementoMori » 11 Nov 2023 01:43

Dear all,

I note in Johnny R's excellent 1944-2003 before and after comparison (seen on page 53 of this forum, screenshot attached here) that it looks like the Berghof site was again disturbed in the early 2000s.

Is anyone able to elaborate on what had been done in the recent photo? More destruction of ruins? Or more filling of the site?

Thank you.
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Mannheim
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Mannheim » 11 Nov 2023 07:40

I was there this time last year and saw no evidence of the site being disturbed. Maybe there was a temporary access road cut for the creation of the notice boards?
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by MementoMori » 11 Nov 2023 09:07

Hi Mannheim,

The abovementioned photo was taken in 2003 by Johnny R after some disturbance has taken place. My query is what had happened back then just before the photo was taken (2003ish) rather than in the last year or so.

Trying to put together a timeline of what has been done to the Berghof since the April 1945 bombing.

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 12 Nov 2023 16:26

Hi MementoMori,

The early 2000s was a period of greatly increased destruction on the Obersalzberg. The Platterhof/Gen. Walker Hotel was torn down, and the underground remains of the SS Kaserne were torn out.

During this period, piles of rubble were dumped on the Berghof site - presumably to discourage visitors - and this is what you see in the 2003 photo.
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
http://www.thirdreichruins.com

v60pih
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by v60pih » 18 Nov 2023 23:26

Are these known pictures?
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MementoMori
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by MementoMori » 18 Nov 2023 23:47

Oh wow! Thank you for sharing. Where did you find those? Amazing!

Whilst I'm here, can anyone please shed any light on what was taking place on the Obersalzberg near the Hintereck accommodation and in the middle of the SS Kaserne?

See attached pic from Google in July 2021, showing ground being disturbed. I naively assumed the Bavarian government had stopped destroying irreplaceable historic relics in about 2005.
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v60pih
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by v60pih » 18 Nov 2023 23:54

Some more.
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MementoMori
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by MementoMori » 21 Nov 2023 10:03

The following link shows modern satellite imagery of the Obersalzberg terrain with all the trees removed.

This highlights the existing bomb craters, old roads/paths and any ruins really well (all usually hidden by trees on Google Earth). Note how much it shows hidden beneath trees around the Antenberg site. And note how many bomb craters survive to the north and west of the site of new hotel complex. It looks like the surface of the moon!

https://geoportal.bayern.de/bayernatlas ... true,false

Modern buildings are shown as flat spaces due to how the scanning was done. But it is still easy to get your bearings. You can also see the retaining wall behind the Berghof site if you zoom in.

You can zoom in/out, move around the area and change the transparency between trees and no trees.

You're welcome!
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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 21 Nov 2023 17:22

v60pih wrote:
18 Nov 2023 23:26
Are these known pictures?
I have not seen the one of the Türken with the poles and ladders leaning up against the back. These are certainly all views not commonly seen. A copy of the last one showing the Moll Bunker and the Kugelstand was sold on eBay fairly recently. I have always wondered just where that picture was taken.

Are these part of an album, like one of those albums sold to Allied soldiers after the war?
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
http://www.thirdreichruins.com

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Berghof Obersalzberg

Post by Geoff Walden » 21 Nov 2023 17:32

MementoMori wrote:
18 Nov 2023 23:47
Whilst I'm here, can anyone please shed any light on what was taking place on the Obersalzberg near the Hintereck accommodation and in the middle of the SS Kaserne?

See attached pic from Google in July 2021, showing ground being disturbed. I naively assumed the Bavarian government had stopped destroying irreplaceable historic relics in about 2005.
At the SS Kaserne site, i don’t know. At one time there were plans to build some sort of amphitheater or event venue there, but this was 20 years ago.

At the other site, the Bavarian government is building housing for the Hotel Kempinski workers (i guess many of them dislike that daily drive up and down the mountain). As part of this they tore out the remaining ruins of the Hintereck house that was bombed in 1945 and never rebuilt. This project is a radical change to the OSB.

Alas, I don’t think the government will ever stop destroying the remains of history in that area.
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
http://www.thirdreichruins.com

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