Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

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Al_Smythe
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Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by Al_Smythe » 20 Dec 2023 18:07

Has anyone ordered and received a book recently from them? I ordered a couple in late November and haven’t received them yet. I emailed a couple times, too, but no response. I know sometimes it takes a while to receive books from him since I’m pretty sure it’s a skeleton crew operation, but just wanted to see if anyone else has received anything from them in the last month or so.

I’m almost finished with the Goebbels biography, after finishing the first part of the Himmler one. Hoping the second part of the Himmler bio comes out soon.

Thanks.

J. Duncan
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Re: Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by J. Duncan » 20 Dec 2023 21:54

I think David Irving is ailing and incapacitated . He’s 85 and hasn’t changed his news page in almost a year. The last note I received from him was that he was out of his lodgings and that his daughter. / daughters were aiding him in relocating.
My gut feeling is that we will next hear of him that he’s died. 85 can go any day , anytime. Those final works may be posthumous . If someone took your order or processed it that’s a positive sign that there is someone active at FP but be patient - I waited almost 3 1/2 months to receive the Himmler book and that was 2 years ago (the last book I bought from him).

Al_Smythe
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Re: Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by Al_Smythe » 21 Dec 2023 22:33

Yeah, I think you’re probably right. My credit card was charged and all that, so I’m just going to sit tight and see what happens. I don’t think I’d even request a refund if the books never came; the guy’s been through so much just for trying to get history right that I’d just consider it a donation.

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Michael Miller
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Re: Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by Michael Miller » 24 Dec 2023 02:48

Al_Smythe wrote:
21 Dec 2023 22:33
Yeah, I think you’re probably right. My credit card was charged and all that, so I’m just going to sit tight and see what happens. I don’t think I’d even request a refund if the books never came; the guy’s been through so much just for trying to get history right that I’d just consider it a donation.
What you've posted here is historical revisionism. David Irving has not been punished and disgraced "just for trying to get history right". Rather, he has suffered the just consequences of denying actual historical events and defaming those who were exterminated and those who survived. This article provides a good summary: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/ ... hefarright.

~ Mike

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Re: Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by Trilisser, M. A. » 01 Jan 2024 11:55

Michael Miller wrote:
24 Dec 2023 02:48
Al_Smythe wrote:
21 Dec 2023 22:33
Yeah, I think you’re probably right. My credit card was charged and all that, so I’m just going to sit tight and see what happens. I don’t think I’d even request a refund if the books never came; the guy’s been through so much just for trying to get history right that I’d just consider it a donation.
What you've posted here is historical revisionism. David Irving has not been punished and disgraced "just for trying to get history right". Rather, he has suffered the just consequences of denying actual historical events and defaming those who were exterminated and those who survived. This article provides a good summary: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/ ... hefarright.

~ Mike
1.The Guardian is a leftist newspaper whose bias shows on every page.
2. If having a non-PC opinion is "defaming the exterminated", that is a typical socialist stance.
3. By the standards applied to Irving, socialists defame their victims every day every year.
4. Miller knows perfectly well that under proper freedom of speech laws, Irving would have never been even prosecuted, let alone convicted.

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Re: Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by OpanaPointer » 01 Jan 2024 13:58

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Re: Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by stolypin » 18 Jan 2024 17:14

Michael Miller wrote:
24 Dec 2023 02:48
Al_Smythe wrote:
21 Dec 2023 22:33
Yeah, I think you’re probably right. My credit card was charged and all that, so I’m just going to sit tight and see what happens. I don’t think I’d even request a refund if the books never came; the guy’s been through so much just for trying to get history right that I’d just consider it a donation.
What you've posted here is historical revisionism. David Irving has not been punished and disgraced "just for trying to get history right". Rather, he has suffered the just consequences of denying actual historical events and defaming those who were exterminated and those who survived. This article provides a good summary: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/ ... hefarright.

~ Mike
I love your books and own most of them. But I sure hope you never suffer what someone deems "just consequences" for writing about things someone finds controversial or disagreeable.

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Michael Miller
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Re: Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by Michael Miller » 19 Jan 2024 05:13

stolypin wrote:
18 Jan 2024 17:14
Michael Miller wrote:
24 Dec 2023 02:48
Al_Smythe wrote:
21 Dec 2023 22:33
Yeah, I think you’re probably right. My credit card was charged and all that, so I’m just going to sit tight and see what happens. I don’t think I’d even request a refund if the books never came; the guy’s been through so much just for trying to get history right that I’d just consider it a donation.
What you've posted here is historical revisionism. David Irving has not been punished and disgraced "just for trying to get history right". Rather, he has suffered the just consequences of denying actual historical events and defaming those who were exterminated and those who survived. This article provides a good summary: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/ ... hefarright.

~ Mike
I love your books and own most of them. But I sure hope you never suffer what someone deems "just consequences" for writing about things someone finds controversial or disagreeable.
Nah, that's not going to happen to me.
There is a subtle difference between writing books of raw biographical data and denying that Jews were exterminated in gas chambers or speaking to gatherings of neo-Nazis.
I appreciate your concern, though.

All that being said, much of Irving's work has great value and I have relied on it in my own research, including the use of excerpts from his writings on Goebbels, Hanke, Hitler, etc.

~ Mike

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Re: Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by Cosgar » 19 Jan 2024 14:23

Trilisser, M. A. wrote:
01 Jan 2024 11:55
Michael Miller wrote:
24 Dec 2023 02:48
Al_Smythe wrote:
21 Dec 2023 22:33
Yeah, I think you’re probably right. My credit card was charged and all that, so I’m just going to sit tight and see what happens. I don’t think I’d even request a refund if the books never came; the guy’s been through so much just for trying to get history right that I’d just consider it a donation.
What you've posted here is historical revisionism. David Irving has not been punished and disgraced "just for trying to get history right". Rather, he has suffered the just consequences of denying actual historical events and defaming those who were exterminated and those who survived. This article provides a good summary: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/ ... hefarright.

~ Mike
1.The Guardian is a leftist newspaper whose bias shows on every page.
2. If having a non-PC opinion is "defaming the exterminated", that is a typical socialist stance.
3. By the standards applied to Irving, socialists defame their victims every day every year.
4. Miller knows perfectly well that under proper freedom of speech laws, Irving would have never been even prosecuted, let alone convicted.
My question is, what in your opinion are proper freedom of speech laws and why weren't the laws that he was prosecuted under correct?

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Re: Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by Michael Kenny » 19 Jan 2024 15:11

Trilisser, M. A. wrote:
01 Jan 2024 11:55


1.The Guardian is a leftist newspaper whose bias shows on every page.
Not true. In terms of most 'Trustworthy' The Guardian comes out ahead of even The Times. The Guardian is seen as a reliable news source and the most 'untrustworthy' sources are nearly all right wing. The nearest 'right-wing source to The Guardian is The Telegraph which is 6 places below it. The rest of the right-wing media are way down the list and are considered much less trustworthy than The Guardian.
It seems you are badly misinformed.
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Re: Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by J. Duncan » 20 Jan 2024 01:23

Yes of course , these publications are trustworthy and deliver unbiased, balanced news. They have always had the people’s best interests at the center of their reporting (sarcasm). The above survey of British lemmings doesn’t make “trustworthiness” a reality.
One can TRUST however that almost ALL the above are biased against David Irving, his views, his person.

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Michael Miller
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Re: Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by Michael Miller » 20 Jan 2024 01:46

But does anyone have a fact-based rebuttal of any claims made against Irving?
Has he never denied the reality of gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau? ("More women died on the back seat of Senator Edward Kennedy's car at Chappaquiddick than died in the gas chamber at Auschwitz.")
Has he never blamed the Jews for his own extermination?
Has he never delivered speeches to gatherings of neo-Nazis?
Has he not denied that Hitler was directly instrumental in the "Final Solution"?
Has he not claimed to be a literal mouthpiece for the living spirit of Adolf Hitler? (That one's a serious question... is that really true or not?).

If he has done these things, it calls into question his seriousness and value as a historian.

This little debate began because I questioned one line of inaccurate silliness: "... the guy’s been through so much just for trying to get history right." But I think the case has been made time and again that it was not for merely "trying to get history right" that he has suffered some consequences. That is, by any objective measure, a false framing of what happened. I stand by my statements, and David Irving is a wretch with an obsessive axe to grind against Jewish people. It has led him to deliberately distort history.

~ MIke

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Re: Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by J. Duncan » 20 Jan 2024 04:14

Yet you place great value in his books despite those distortions ( you said so) At least you aren’t a hypocrite and admitted using his material.
Personally, I don’t value Irving as a “historian “.
Irving is a document chaser who spins great tapestries of conjecture while providing tidbits of historical minutiae, anecdotes, life lessons, paranoid fantasies of plots and conspiracies, opionated snobbery. He appeals to the skeptic , the cynic, and the conspiracy theorist. Rather than trying to prove history right, he seems to be fighting to prove that history (as written by what he terms “conventional historians”) is all wrong. He hasn’t actually proved anything or provided anything definitive. He’s been very successful at titillation without substance. Quite remarkable. Maybe we were too dumb to realize that he hooked us in and fooled us into believing he had found something substantial only to get more of the same. Maybe some just bought his books because they were “oppositional” / “controversial” and therefore “naughty”. Politically incorrect.
As for the rest, it’s true. There’s no defending his record. He did say and do those things at one time or another, shutting himself forever out of the establishment. A man with a headache, he hit himself in the head with a hammer, although I’m not down with jailing people for opinions or beliefs. That’s not very “democratic” is it?
And yet, wretch that he is, there is something attractive about a man who doesn’t back down and spits in the face of these slime bags who run the mass media. Somehow, he kept going in spite of it all.
Don’t worry though, David Irving will be dead soon enough, and the world will breathe a sigh of relief and feel “safer” that an evil “Nazi” is dead. Gee whiz there’s a lot of Nazis running around today. Russia is fighting Nazis in Ukraine and Ukraine is taking on Hitler Putin. Israelis are killing Nazis in Gaza! Sounds crazy doesn’t it, but that’s what we’ve been told. (Lol)
The media will continue to teach what is acceptable and fashionable and what isn’t, and the booming lemming population will continue to respond accordingly.
Last edited by J. Duncan on 20 Jan 2024 04:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Michael Miller
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Re: Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by Michael Miller » 20 Jan 2024 04:25

I'm not among those who "will breathe a sigh of relief" at his passing, nor do I see him as an "evil 'Nazi'". I also don't think he should have been imprisoned.

The Nazi comparisons are indeed out of control. And most people are, as you say, "lemmings" with no real curiosity- let along understanding- of history. Had a long discussion with one of my Veterans, who is a student in a political science Master's program, about this very topic today. He's 35 in a class of 20-year-olds and from what he says, they almost unanimously conflate belief with knowledge. They take on the politics and talking points they find most trendy at any given time.

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Re: Focal Point (David Irving)- out of commission?

Post by J. Duncan » 20 Jan 2024 04:49

I understand your position Mike. (I totally get it)
Irving is no victim of Deborah Lipstadt (his hubris and naivety in that affair was his own fault). The last section of my post
I’m speaking rhetorically on Irving from the perspective of media and amusing myself.
I do appreciate however that you do acknowledge using his work while having strong criticisms about his person. He’s not a likable fellow by any means.
There are many in academia however who will trash him publicly but when you examine their biblios you will find Irving listed! Kershaw has done this without the disclosure.

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