Britain, Canada Declare War on Finns, Hungary, & Rumania

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Globalization41
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Britain, Canada Declare War on Finns, Hungary, & Rumania

Post by Globalization41 » 20 May 2004 06:42

London, Special Cable to The New York
Times,
By Craig Thompson, Sunday,
December 7, 1941:
[Late Saturday,
December 6, U.S. time.]
At one minute after
midnight today [7:01 P.M. Saturday, Eastern
standard time] Britain went to war with
Finland, Rumania, and Hungary. The
declaration now effective amounts to little
more than the establishment of a political front.
... Aside from the possible internment of fewer
than 7,500 military-age nationals of all these
countries for the duration of the war, there is
no step that can now be taken that is not
already in effect. ... [Even before the
declaration became effective, said The
Associated Press,
Scotland Yard arrested for
internment more than 200 of the new "enemy
aliens," including 150 Finns. Britain's war
declaration against the three allies of
Germany followed their refusal to heed
ultimatums to halt hostilities against Russia.]
[Bracketed inserts by The New York Times are
not italicized.]
... The blockade against Finland
has already been effected as well as the Royal
Navy can establish it, and sequestration of
Finnish property is complete. The laconic and
subordinated headline in Lord Beaverbrook's
Daily Express this morning summarized the
official and popular attitude: "Now at War
With Three More Nations." ... There is
supposed to have been 400 Finns of military
age in England when the war began, but the
number is now believed to be about 150. ...
Diplomatic relations with Finland were
severed months ago, but Georg Gripenberg,
Finnish Minister to Britain, has remained and
last night was packing his belongings and
arranging as best he could to get back to his
country. His British-born wife is in the United
States. He had nothing to say about the war
declaration except that he was going home
and hoped the legation staff would follow him
within a week or two. He could not say
whether his wife would be able to follow him to
Helsinki. ... One of the probable effects of the
war declaration against Hungary was
recognition of a group of Hungarians in
London who have been thinking of themselves
as "free" in the same terms as the Free
French, Free Czechs, and other groups.
These Hungarians yesterday [Saturday]
issued a statement that the "Hungarian
Government's policy of subservience and its
participation in the criminal aggression
against Russia has had the deplorable
outcome of the present state of war between
Britain and Hungary." ... "We are convinced,"
the statement continued, "that most of our
countrymen realize that a British victory alone
can free Hungary of its present shame and
servitude.
We call on our countrymen at home
and abroad to resist the Fascist usurpers and
to work and fight for an independent, free, and
democratic Hungary.
" ... [The London
Rumanian Democratic Committee also issued
a statement, said The Associated Press,
declaring that if the Rumanian people had had
a voice "in shaping the country's policy since
the start of the war, Rumania would be fighting
on the side of England and not against
England's ally, Russia.]

Ottawa, United Press, The New York Times,
Saturday, December 6, 1941: The Cabinet
late today approved a formal declaration of
war against Finland, Rumania, and Hungary
and transmitted it to London for approval by
King George. ... Later the King's approval was
received and the declaration was to become
effective at 6 P.M., E.S.T. ... Prime Minister
W.L. Mackenzie King
arranged a broadcast to
the Canadian people at 10 P.M. to explain the
developments leading to the declaration. [The
official timing of the war declarations
preceded the Pearl Harbor raid by less than
20 hours.]


[Stay tuned for late breaking war bulletins.
... Globalization41.]

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 20 May 2004 09:16

Globalization41,

Considering that your clippings cover many different aspects of the war, prehaps it would be a good idea to keep them in one thread? That way it would also be easier for the members to find your posts.

/Marcus

Globalization41
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Late Breaking War Bulletins

Post by Globalization41 » 20 May 2004 21:13

Thanks Marcus. Please note the
clickable link, "late breaking war bulletins,"
at the end of my clippings transcriptions.
This brings up links to all my clippings
posts. These links are arranged in
chronological order, beginning with April
1941 and ending in December 1941. I
rarely stray from that time frame.

Globalization41
Last edited by Globalization41 on 21 May 2004 00:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 20 May 2004 21:16

I didn't notice that link, sorry about that.

/Marcus

Globalization41
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Finns Told War with Soviet Union Must Continue

Post by Globalization41 » 21 May 2004 06:07

Helsinki, Finland, United Press, The
New York Times,
Saturday, December 6,
1941:
President Risto Ryti and Field Marshal
Baron Gustav Mannerheim told the Finnish
people in Independence Day declarations
today that they must fight on to final victory
against the Soviet Union, but they failed to
mention war with Great Britain. ... Not until
tonight was any publication made in Finland
of the fact that Britain will consider itself in a
state of war with Finland as of 12:01 A.M.
[London time] Sunday. The text of the British
declaration issued at London was first
published only after deletions that left the
impression Britain was at war with Hungary
and Rumania but not Finland. ... This evening,
however, the Finnish reply was published and
it was revealed that a Finnish-British war
would become fact at one minute past
midnight. ... The Finnish reply, conciliatory in
tone,
said that the "Finnish army is not far from
its strategic aims, rendering harmless the
areas from which the enemy had been
preparing to destroy Finland." ... Mr. Ryti, in
his radio speech assailed British and United
States aid to Soviet Russia
and announced
reincorporation of territories ceded to Russia
and abrogation of the 1940 peace treaty with
Moscow. ... Asserting that Finland must fight
on until her independence is secured by final
victory, he said: "It is impossible to
understand how Britain can uphold the bloody
despotic Soviet Union as champion of
democratic freedom
and promise her a
preponderant position in Eastern Europe. It is
incomprehensible that Britain at the demand
of the Soviets can threaten us with war and
loss of friendship of the United States
if we
do not leave our defense war half-way finished
and with fixed objectives unattained." ... "We
have neither the ability or the wish to threaten
Britain or the United States but we cannot
withdraw from the struggle on behalf of ideals
for which they say they are also fighting.
In the
name of the future world and of European
civilization,
we have cause to hope that
friendship with the Soviet Union will not cause
irreparable injury to Britain and the United
States." ... "For that friendship is the leper's
handclasp
and even a slight wound in our own
skin may result in mortal infection. We, if any
one, have protected our community, yet the
danger has been great. For the incautious,
the danger is many times greater." ... Mr. Ryti
said that the naval base of Hangoe, in
Southwestern Finland, was so devastated by
the time the Russian troops withdrew from it
this week that it was now uninhabitable. ...
Baron Mannerheim, in an order of the day,
said: "Two Years ago we had to resist
against the hordes from the East. *** Today
our young army does not fight alone. Many
European nations are fighting at our side.
***
Our army stands today in a defensive war that
has led from victory to victory. ***" ... It was
officially stated that Finnish troops had
occupied Kurhumaeki and that Finnish
coastal artillery had sunk five Russian
transports and one destroyer during the
evacuation of Hangoe.
Two destroyers and
several other ships were damaged and one
12,000-ton ship was captured by the
Germans.

[Stay tuned for late breaking war bulletins.
... Globalization41.]

Mek
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Post by Mek » 21 May 2004 15:17

Hi,

Interesting press clippings. Very nice to read.

Thank you :)

Regards,
-Pete

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rcristi2271
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Post by rcristi2271 » 21 May 2004 16:57

Regarding this matter check this post containing the official rumanian response of british utlimatum Nov 30 1941

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=46834

Best regards

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rcristi2271
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Post by rcristi2271 » 21 May 2004 16:59

To my knowledge the Finns and Rumanians were glad to fight against the Soviets but not against the Brits and/or Americans.

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Harri
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Post by Harri » 21 May 2004 17:53

rcristi2271 wrote:To my knowledge the Finns and Rumanians were glad to fight against the Soviets but not against the Brits and/or Americans.
That is true. Before the WW II Finland was pro-British/French/America country. Many of our leaders including our wartime Prime Minister and State President Risto Ryti was a well known Anglophile. It is the irony of history that he had to led Finland in the situation in which Finland fought with Germany and was in war with Britain!

Finnish sympathies towards Germany were traditional because Germany was one of our important trade partners together with Sweden. Our Fascists were mainly oriented towards Mussolini's Italy. Nazis had never strong support in Finland and we had no pro-Nazi "quislings".

If Finland could have chosen freely it for sure had been on the same side with Britain, France and USA. Instead we had to choose from two bad - either Germany or USSR - and the first one seemed much better option for obvious reason. Attacking Finland in 1939 USSR pushed Finland on Germany's lap although following friendly relationships with Finland it had won a reliable patner which with a little material help would have protected Leningrad effectively.

I think leaders of Britain and US understood somehow our difficult situation although due to critical situation elsewhere they could not pay much attention to Finland. Our relationships with US remained rather troubleless until early summer 1944 when Finland refused to accept Soviet peace terms of which were negotiated with the help of US. To pressure Finland US "froze" official relationships and moved their embassador to Sweden. After the Soviet summer offensive against Finland had failed and it seemed that conquering Finland and destroying our Army would have needed much more men and equipment USSR was again eager to negotiate on peace which came true on 4.9.1944 (although on Soviet side hostilities continued until 5.9.1944).

It has been stated that at that moment Finland "changed side" but even after signing peace Finland didn't became an ally of USSR and it didn't became such even afterwards either. We just returned back to the parters of Western Allies like we had been before 1940/41. That development has not yet finished.

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Post by rcristi2271 » 21 May 2004 21:03

Same goes for Rumania, the main figure of the pro-Axis regime was a well known anglofile Gen (later Marshal) Ion Antonescu.

Globalization41
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British War Declaration on Finland Distresses Swedes

Post by Globalization41 » 22 May 2004 07:36

Stockholm, Sweden, By Telephone to The
New York Times,
Saturday, December 6,
1941:
The published Finnish and British
notes [Britain's declaration of war on Finland
and Finland's reply]
have not created any
surprise in Stockholm. The tone of the Finnish
note is moderate and conciliatory, but the
substance clearly shows that while the Finns
are extremely reluctant to find themselves at
war with a country that the majority love and
admire, they prefer to accept this risk rather
than modify their position. ... However, the
nature and obvious reluctance of Britain to
declare war, combined with the conciliatory
tone of Finland has led quite a few foreign
observers here to believe that negotiations
between the two countries will continue even
after tomorrow. It is particularly noted here
that the British have not asked the Finns to
evacuate occupied territories, but merely to
halt their advance at its present point. ... But
other observers point out that President Ryti's
insistence in his Independence Day address
on the danger of communism to Europe and
his apparent acceptance of the German thesis
of a "crusade" against bolshevism greatly
diminish the strength of the Finnish argument
that Finland is only fighting for herself.
... The
Swedes are naturally extremely distressed by
this tragic development, which adds new
difficulties to their already difficult position. ...
The first consequence, your correspondent
was informed on good authority, may be that
the British will modify their navicert [certificate
of cargo verification for neutral ships issued by
a warring power]
policy as regards goods
imported by Sweden from the United States
and South America. London wishes to have
guarantees that none of these imports will go
from Sweden to Finland, and it is feared in
Stockholm that the British may also ask for
guarantees that no other Swedish goods be
exported to Finland.
... This would place the
Swedes in a very awkward position, because
while in practice Sweden exports a very small
amount of foodstuffs to Finland, the position of
the Swedish government still remains pro-
Finnish.
Negotiations have already been
started in London on these problems and the
Swedes are anxiously awaiting their outcome.
[In effect, trading with or giving aid to a
warring power subverts neutrality.]


[Stay tuned for late breaking war bulletins.
... Globalization41.]
Last edited by Globalization41 on 22 May 2004 16:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Hanski
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Re: British War Declaration on Finland Distresses Swedes

Post by Hanski » 22 May 2004 09:18

I must say the journalistic level of The New York Times has been admirable in all its accuracy.

London wishes to have
guarantees that none of these imports will go
from Sweden to Finland, and it is feared in
Stockholm that the British may also ask for
guarantees that no other Swedish goods be
exported to Finland.... This would place the
Swedes in a very awkward position, because
while in practice Sweden exports a very small
amount of foodstuffs to Finland, the position of
the Swedish government still remains pro-
Finnish.
Among other things, the British policy resulted in that Swedish-made lorries (which were in short supply in Finland during the Continuation War) were imported to Finland without tyres, because they were not allowed to contain British (Dunlop?) parts.

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Csaba Becze
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Post by Csaba Becze » 22 May 2004 11:39

Hungary wanted to fight just against the Sovietunion also, and nearly 1,5 years after the war declarations by western allies the Hungarian government refused the German wish to fight the Hungarian bombers against the western allies from south France (two BG's stationed there for a short time)

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Propaganda by Ommission

Post by Globalization41 » 22 May 2004 16:01

Hanski commented, "I must say the
journalistic level of The New York Times has
been admirable in all its accuracy."
This
quote is coincidentally significant for this
topic's posts recreating press dispatches of
Saturday, December 6, 1941. As it turned
out, December 6 would be America's last day
of neutrality, and as it's been said many times,
"The first casualty of war is the truth." On the
Saturday before Pearl Harbor, the U.S.
"journalist level" of "accuracy" was at its
historic peak regarding foreign affairs. ... Of
course the truth would almost always be told in
the American mass media, but manipulation
of perception via the loophole of omission
would become increasingly standard, even
until the present. However, the recent
appearance of the internet has attenuated the
propaganda by omission affect. ... Note to
Csaba Becze: I've got some interesting press
clippings on 1941 Hungary, but it may be a
few weeks before I get them posted.

Globalization41

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Hitler & Hirohito Telegraph Congratulations to Finland

Post by Globalization41 » 22 May 2004 17:12

Berlin, United Press, The New York Times,
Saturday, December 6, 1941: Adolph Hitler
today telegraphed congratulations to
President Risto Ryti on Finland's
Independence Day, and Nazi authorized
spokesmen said that the British declaration of
war against Finland, Hungary, and Rumania
would be "without practical effect in the
European struggle." ... Germany's allies
already had been subject to the British
blockade and their assets abroad already had
been frozen, the spokesman said, adding:
"All that Britain could do would be to send
troops to the Continent against these nations
-- a decision which would suit us perfectly but
a decision that Britain cannot and will not
take." ... Herr Hitler's message to Mr. Ryti
said: "On the anniversary of Finland's
independence, I express to you and to the
Finnish people my sincere good wishes. The
period of defensive struggle in which Finland,
in loyal comradeship of arms with Germany, is
fighting for achievement of her final security
will be crowned by victory." ... ... Tokyo, United
Press, The New York Times,
Saturday,
December 6, 1941:
Emperor Hirohito today
telegraphed congratulations to President
Risto Ryti on the anniversary of Finland's
independence.

[Stay tuned for late breaking war bulletins.
... Globalization41.]

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