Who was in charge of the Holocaust?

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
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Who was in charge of the Holocaust?

Post by fju » 16 Aug 2002 21:13

Hi everyone,

I'm the new 'kid' here'. My name is Franz.

I have my own forum, and I have thousands of 'looks' but no contributors, but I do have some answers to questions I have seen posted.

I am counting on your knowledge to help me with some problems. Thank you in advance.

I encountered a strange part in my investigations, which indicates that the SS were not in charge of the camps.

Although there are a number of other cases on record, I shall give just two examples which show where the orders for the camps came from. On August 7-8, 1946, at Nuremberg, Sturmbannführer Georg Konrad Morgen, an SS judge gave evidence on behalf of the SS as an indicted organisation. Morgen had been transferred in July 1943 from the SS Military Courts to the Criminal Police at Himmler's request. His job was the investigation of embezzlement in concentration camps. In following up cases of corruption in the camps, he stumbled upon some top secret evidence. Morgen's argument at the Nuremberg trials was that the extermination camps were not run by the SS at all. Apparently in the summer of 1943 he heard from the commander of the Security Police and SD in the Lublin region of Poland that there had been a wedding in a Jewish labour camp which had been attended by 1100 guests including many German SS men. Morgen amazed at this weird tale looked further and in doing so came across another camp, "rather peculiar and impenetrable" which was run by Christian Wirth, who confirmed the story of the Jewish wedding and explained that it was part of a plan by which Wirth hoped to persuade Jews to serve in the camps where they would assist in the exterminations.

Although the four camps had been mentioned earlier in the Nuremberg trials, this was the first clue concerning their ultimate headquarters. Morgen insisted that the administration of the camps was actually not in SS hands having seen Wirth's daily orders. These did not come from Himmler's Office but from the Führer's Chancellery (T4) and had been signed "Blankenberg". Morgen's evidence was the only clue to the true command lines of the Jewish extermination programme.

This was confirmed years later in the recent trial of the notorious Franz Stangl. He was an Austrian policeman who automatically became a member of the Austrian Gestapo following the Anschluss. In November 1940 he was transferred to the General Foundation for institutional Care, one of the T4 front groups. He was told to report to a Dr. Werner at the Reichskriminalpolizeiamt in Berlin.
Anyone have any details on this?


David Thompson
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Post by David Thompson » 16 Aug 2002 22:42

[Moderator's note -- edited to add the IMT volume with Dr. Morgen's testimony]

Here's Dr. Morgen's testimony from IMT proceedings, vol. 20. At p. 493 Dr. Morgen states that he did not believe the KL Lublin (Belzec) commandant, Christian Wirths (1885-1944), was a member of the SS. On the other hand, French McLean, in The Camp Men p. 259, gives Wirth's rank as SS-Sturmbannfuehrer and his SS number as 345464.

Note that Dr. Morgen speaks (at p. 509) of making his reports to SS officers, and that his investigation was blocked by the chief of the Secret State Police (Geheime Staatspolizei - Gestapo) -- a division of the Reich Main Security Office (Riechssicherheitshauptamt) headed by SS General Reinhardt Heydrich [(1904 - 1942) SS-Obergruppenführer und General der Polizei) and later by SS General Ernst Kaltenbrunner [(1903-1946)
SS-Obergruppenführer und General der Polizei).

SS General Artur Nebe's [1894-1945 SS-Gruppenfuehrer] reaction, as reported (at p. 509) by Morgen, is rather surprising given the fact that he had commanded Einsatzgruppe B in the former Soviet Union in June-Nov 1941.

Anyway, here's what Morgen had to say:

THE PRESIDENT: You can certainly put them in if you think it worth while; but now will you get on with your case. Is there another witness that you are going to call before Dr. Morgen?
HERR PELCKMANN: Yes; I believe the witness Sievers was called by the Prosecution, Your Lordship.

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THE' PRESIDENT: Well, is he here?
THE MARSHAL: Yes, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, call him then.
THE MARSHAL: Both witnesses are here now, Your Honor, both Sievers and Morgen.
THE PRESIDENT: We will go on with Sievers now.
MAJOR JONES: Perhaps, My Lord-you did indicate, My Lord, it might be more convenient for Dr. Pelckmann to finish with his witness before Dr. Sievers.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, I do not mind. Call Dr. Morgen then.
[The witness Morgen took the stand.]
Will you state your full name, please?
GEORG KONRAD MORGEN (Witness): Georg Konrad Morgen.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you repeat this oath after me:
I swear by God-the Almighty and Omniscient-that I will speak the pure truth-and will withhold and add nothing.
[The witness repeated the oath.]
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down.
HERR PELCKMANN: Witness, in view of the importance of your testimony, I will first ask you in detail about your person. Were you an SS judge of the Reserve?
HERR PELCKMANN: Please speak slowly and pause after each question.
What training did you have?
MORGEN: I studied law at the Universities of Frankfurt on the Main, Rome, Berlin; at the "Academie de Droit International" at 'The Hague and the "Institute for World Economy and Ocean Traffic" in Kiel. I passed the first examination and the State law examination. Before the war I was a judge at the Landgericht in Stettin.
HERR PELCKMANN: Were you a specialist in criminology and in criminal law? MORGEN: No, I had specialized in international law, but later, during the war, when I had to deal with criminal matters and penal law, I did special work in that field.
HERR PELCKMANN: How did you come to the SS?
MORGEN: I was drafted compulsorily into the General SS. In 1933, 1 belonged to the Reich Board for Youth Training, whose students' group was completely incorporated into the General SS. At the beginning of the war I was drafted into the Waffen-SS.

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HERR PELCKMANN: What rank did you have there?
MORGEN: In the General SS I was Staffelanwarter and SS Rottenfuehrer. In the Waffen-SS I was in the end Sturmbannfuehrer of the Reserve.
HERR PELCKMANN: What example can you give that you did not believe you were joining a conspiracy when you entered the SS-very briefly; please.
MORGEN: In 1936 I published a book on War Propaganda and the Prevention of War. This book, at a time when war was threatening, showed ways and means to prevent war and to forestall the incitement to hostility between nations. The book was examined by the Party and published. Therefore, I could not suppose that the SS or the policy of the Reich Government was directed toward war.
HERR PELCKMANN: How did you come to make investigations in the concentration camps?
MORGEN: At the order of the Reichsfuehrer SS, and due to my special abilities in criminology, I was detailed by the Main Office SS Courts to the Reich Criminal Police Department in Berlin, which was equivalent to a transfer. Shortly after I arrived there, I was given an assignment to investigate a case of corruption in Weimar. The accused was a member of the concentration camp of Weimar-Buchenwald. The investigations soon led to the person of the former Commander Koch and many of his subordinates, and beyond that they affected a number of other concentration camps. When these investigations became more extensive, I received full authority from the Reichsfuehrer SS to engage generally in such investigations in concentration camps.
HERR PELCKMANN: Why was a special power of attorney from the Reichsfuehrer necessary?
MORGEN: For the guards of the concentration camps, the SS and Police courts were competent; that is, in each case the local court in whose district the concentration camp was located. For that reason, because of the limited jurisdiction of its judge, the court was not able to act outside its own district. In these investigations and their extensive ramifications it was important to be able to work in various districts. Besides that, it was necessary to use specialists in criminal investigation, in other words, the Criminal Police. The Criminal Police however could not carry on any investigation directly with the troops, and only by combining juridical and Criminal Police activities was it possible to clear this up, and for this purpose I was given this special power of attorney by the Reichsfuehrer.
HERR PELCKMANN: Now, how extensive did these investigations become? You can be brief because the witness Reinecke answered this point in part.

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MORGEN: I investigated Weimar-Buchenwald, Lublin, Auschwitz, Sachsenhausen, Oranienburg, Hertogenbosch, Krakow; Plaszow, Warsaw, and the Concentration Camp Dachau. And others were investigated after my time.
HERR PELCKMANN: How many cases did you investigate? How many sentences were passed? How many death sentences?
MORGEN: I investigated about 800 cases, that is, about 800 documents, and one document would affect several cases. About 200 were tried during my activity. Five concentration camp commanders were arrested by me personally. Two were shot after being tried.
HERR PELCKMANN: You had them shot?
MORGEN: Yes. Apart from the commanders, there were numerous other death sentences against Fuehrer and Unterfuehrer.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did you have any opportunity of gaining personal insight into the conditions in concentration camps?
MORGEN: Yes, because I had authority to visit concentration camps. Only a very few persons had this permission. Before beginning an investigation, I examined the concentration camp in question in all its details very closely, inspecting especially those arrangements which seemed particularly important to me. I visited them repeatedly and without notice. I was working mostly in Buchenwald itself for 8 months and have lived there. I was in Dachau for one or two months.
HERR PELCKMANN: Since so many visitors to concentration camps say they were deceived, do you consider it possible that you, too, were a victim of such deceit?
MORGEN: I have just pointed out that I was not a mere visitor to a concentration camp but I had settled down there for a long residence, I might almost say I established myself there. It is almost impossible to be deceived for such a long time. In addition, the commissions from the Reich Criminal Police Department worked under my instructions, and I placed them directly in the concentration camps themselves. I do not mean to say that in spite of these very intensive efforts I was able to learn of all the crimes, but I believe that there was no deception in regard to what I did learn.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did you gain the impression, and at what time, that the concentration camps were places for the extermination of human beings?
MORGEN: I did not gain this impression. A concentration camp is not a place for
the extermination of human beings. I must say that my first visit to a
concentration camp-I mentioned the first one was Weimar-Buchenwald-was a great
surprise to me. The

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camp is situated on wooded heights, with a wonderful view. The installations were clean and freshly painted. There was much lawn and flowers. The prisoners were healthy, normally fed, sun-tanned, working ...
PRESIDENT: When are you speaking of? When are you speaking of?
MORGEN: I am speaking of the beginning of my investigations in July 1943.
HERR PELCKMANN: What crimes did you discover?
MORGEN: Pardon me, I had not - may I continue?
HERR PELCKMANN: Please, be more brief.
MORGEN: The installations of the camp were in good order, especially the hospital. The camp authorities, under the Commander Diester, aimed at providing the prisoners with an existence worthy of human beings. They had regular mail service. They had a large camp library, even books in foreign languages. They had variety shows, motion pictures, sporting contests and even had a brothel. Nearly all the other concentration camps were similar to Buchenwald.
PRESIDENT: What was it they even had?
MORGEN: A brothel.
HERR PELCKMANN: What crimes did you learn about?
MORGEN: As I said before, the investigations were based on a suspicion of corrupt practices. In time however, I was obliged to come to the conclusion that besides those crimes, killings had also occurred.
HERR PELCKMANN: How did you reach the suspicion that killings had occurred?
MORGEN: I learned that the starting point for the corruption was the assignment of Jews to the camps after the action of 1938. I made it a point to learn all the possible facts about this action, and in doing so I found that the majority of the prisoners who were suspected of knowing something about these cases of corruption, had died. This peculiar frequency of killings was noticeable; it struck me because other prisoners who were not in any key positions remained in Buchenwald for years in the best of health, and were still there, so that it was rather remarkable that it was just certain prisoners who might have been possible witnesses who had died. I thereupon examined the files concerning these deceased prisoners. The files themselves offered no clues to suspect illegal killings. The dates of the deaths were years apart and in each case different causes of death were given. But it struck me that the majority of these deceased, prisoners had been put into the camp

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hospital or in arrest shortly before their death. This aroused my suspicion for the first time that in these two places murders of prisoners might possibly have occurred. Thereupon I appointed a special official, whose sole task was to investigate the suspicious circumstances, and follow up the rumors which were circulating about the detention quarters, the so-called "Bunker," regarding this killing of prisoners. This very zealous and able detective had to report again and again that he had not found the faintest clue for my suspicions. After two weeks of completely unsuccessful activity, the detective refused further services and asked me ironically whether I myself believed that such rumors of illegal killing of prisoners could be true. Much later, and only by chance did I hit upon the first clue; it struck me that the names of certain prisoners were listed at the same time in the rolls of the camp prison as well as in those of the hospital. In the prison rolls, for example, it said, "Date of release 9 May, 12 o'clock." In the hospital register, "Patient died 9 May, 9:15 a.m." I said to myself, this prisoner cannot be in the camp prison and at the same time a patient in the hospital. False entries must have been made here. I therefore concentrated my efforts on this and I succeeded in getting behind this system, for it was a system, under Commander Koch.
The prisoners were taken to a secret place and were killed there, mostly in a cell of the camp prison, and sick reports and death certificates were prepared for the files. They were made out so cleverly that any unprejudiced reader of the documents would get the impression that the prisoner concerned had actually been treated and had died of the seri6us illness which was indicated.
HERR PELCKMANN: Then what did you do after learning of these facts?
MORGEN: I found out that the medical officer at Buchenwald, SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Hoven, was principally responsible and I had him arrested. I informed my investigating commission in the concentration camps, with which we had to deal, of these cunning forgeries and directed their particular attention to investigating systematically whether in other concentration camps such murders had also taken place. We satisfied ourselves at the time of the investigation-and I am speaking of the second half of 1943-that in the Concentration Camps Buchenwald, Sachsenhausen, and Dachau to the best of our knowledge no such killings occurred. In the other concentration camps, however, such cases were found. The persons believed to be guilty were accused, arrested, and charged.
HERR PELCKMANN: Why was this not done earlier?
MORGEN: I have already said that these deceptive measures were so cunninglycontrived that it was not possible to discover them earlier. Above all there was no possibility of clearing up the

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matter, and then those things-were always done without witnesses. These cases should at all events have been investigated by the SS courts and they were investigated, for every unnatural death of a prisoner had to be reported by teletype to the central offices. Besides that, the specially sworn-in court officer who was in the camp had to go immediately to the place of the occurrences to question the witnesses; sketches and photographs had to be made of the scene and it was a regulation that an autopsy had to take place in every such case of unnatural death. These reports of unnatural deaths, or of deaths suspected of being unnatural, were sent regularly to the SS and Police court; but as I have already said, these reports were so cunningly contrived and the files were in such good order, that even an expert could not have suspected an illegal killing. Of course, proceedings against members of the concentration camp personnel were frequently instituted, some followed by sentences, even death sentences. But these criminal acts seemed to be within range of the usual army rate of 0.5 percent to 3 percent.
If nothing at all had been reported to the SS courts from the concentration camps, or if numerous reports had been made, then it would of course have seemed suspicious. But it was a normal average and nobody could suspect that the concentration camps were a hotbed of such dangerous crimes. It was only through my investigation, which as I said was caused by accident, that we received our first insight into the true state of affairs.
HERR PELCKMANN: How did you come onto the track of mass killings? You have just spoken of individual killings.
MORGEN: I found traces of mass destructions also by chance. At the end of 1943, 1 discovered two trails at the same time, one leading to Lublin and the other to Auschwitz.
HERR PELCKMANN: Please describe the Lublin trail first.
MORGEN: One day I received a report from the commander of the Security Police in Lublin. He reported that in a Jewish labor camp in his district a Jewish wedding had taken place. There had been 1,100 invited guests at this wedding
HERR PELCKMANN: Go on witness, a little faster.
MORGEN: As I said before, 1,100 guests participated in this Jewish wedding. What followed was described as quite extraordinary owing to the gluttonous consumption of food and alcoholic drinks. Among these Jews were members of the camp guard, that is to say some SS men, who joined in this revelry. This report only came into my hands in a roundabout way, some months later, due to the fact that the Commander of the Security Police suspected that the circumstances indicated that some criminal acts had occurred. This was my impression as well, and I thought that this

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report would give me a clue to another big case of criminal corruption. With this in mind, I went to Lublin and called at the Security/ Police there, but all they would tell me was that the events happened at a camp of the Deutsche Ausrustungswerke. But nothing was known there. I was told it might possibly be a rather odd and shrouded (this was the actual term used) camp in the vicinity of Lublin. I found out the camp and the commander, who was Kriminalkommissar Wirth.
I asked Wirth whether this report was true or what it meant. To my great astonishment, Wirth admitted it. I asked him why he permitted members of his command to do such things and Wirth then revealed to me that on the Fuehrer's orders he had to carry out the destruction of Jews.
HEIRR PELCKMANN: Please go on, Witness, to describe your investigations. MORGEN: I asked Wirth what this had to do with the Jewish wedding. Then, Wirth described the method by which he carried out the extermination of Jews, and he said something like this: "One has to fight the Jews with their own weapons, that is to say "pardon me for using this expression-"one has to cheat them." Wirth staged an enormous deceptive maneuver. He first selected Jews who would, he thought, serve as column leaders, then these Jews brought along other Jews, who worked under them. With that smaller or medium-sized detachment of Jews, he began to build up the extermination camps. He extended this staff of Jews, and with these Jews Wirth himself carried out the extermination of the Jews. Wirth said that he had four extermination camps and that about 5,000 Jews were working at the extermination of Jews and the seizure of Jewish property. In order to win Jews for this business of extermination and plundering of their brethren of race and creed, Wirth gave them every freedom and, so to speak, gave them a financial interest in the spoliation of the dead victims. As a result of this attitude, this sumptuous Jewish wedding had come about.
Then I asked Wirth how he killed Jews with these Jewish agents of his. Wirth described the whole procedure that went off like a film every time. The extermination camps were in the east of the Government General, in big forests or uninhabited wastelands. They were built up like a Potemkin village. The people arriving there had the impression of entering a city or a township. The train drove into a dummy railroad station. After the escorts and the train personnel had left the area, the cars were opened and the Jews got out. They were surrounded by these Jewish labor detachments, and Kriminalkommissar Wirth or one of his representatives made a speech. He said, "Jews, you were brought here to be resettled, but

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before we organize this future Jewish State, you must of course learn how to work. You must learn a new trade. You will be taught that here. Our routine here is, first, every one must take off his clothes so that your clothing can be disinfected, and you can have a bath so that no epidemics will be brought into the camp."
After he had found such calming words for his victims, they started on the road to death. Men and women were separated. At the first place, one had to deliver the hat; at the next one, the coat, collar, shirt, down to the shoes and socks. These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a check at each one so that the people believed that they would get their things back. The other Jews had to receive the things and hurry up the new arrivals so that they should not have time to think. The whole thing was like an assembly line. After the last stop they reached a big room, and were told that this was the bath. When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened, and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special procedure which Wirth had invented, they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel.
HERR PELCKMANN: Was Wirth a member of the SS?
MORGEN: No, he was a Kriminalkommissar in Stuttgart.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did you ask Wirth how he arrived at this devilish system? MORGEN: When Wirth took over the extermination of the Jews, he was already a specialist in mass-destruction of human beings. He had previously carried out the task of getting rid of the incurably insane. By order of the Fuehrer himself, whose order was transmitted through the Chancellery of the Fuehrer, he had, at the beginning of the war, set up a detachment for this purpose, probably composed of a few officials of his, as I believe, the remainder being agents and spies of the Criminal Police.
Wirth very vividly described how he went about carrying out this assignment. He received no aid, no instructions, but had to do it all by himself. He was only given an old empty building in Brandenburg. There he made his first experiments. After much consideration and many individual experiments, he evolved his later system, and then this system was used on a large scale to exterminate the insane.
A commission of doctors previously investigated the files, and those insane who were listed by the asylums as incurable were put on a separate list. Then the asylum concerned was told one day to send these patients to another institution.
From this asylum

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the patient was transferred again, often more than once. Finally he came to Wirth's institution, where he was killed by gas and cremated. This system, which deceived the asylums and made them unknowing accomplices, enabled him with very few assistants to exterminate large numbers of people, and this system Wirth now employed with a few alterations and improvements for the extermination of Jews. He was also given the assignment by the Fi1hrer's Chancellery to exterminate the Jews.
HERR PELCKMANN: The statements which Wirth made to you must have surpassed human imagination. Did you immediately believe Wirth?
MORGEN: At first Wirth's description seemed completely fantastic to me, but in Lublin I saw one of his camps. It was a camp which collected the property or part of the property of his victims. From the piles of things-there were an enormous number of watches piled up-I had to realize that something frightful was going on here. I was shown the valuables. I can say that I never saw so much money at one time, especially foreign money-all kinds of coins, from all over the world. In addition, there was a gold smelting furnace and really prodigious bars of gold.
I also saw that the headquarters from which Wirth directed his operations was very small and inconspicuous., He had only three or four people working there for him. I spoke to them too.
I saw and watched his couriers arrive. They actually came from Berlin, Tiergartenstrasse, the Fi1hrer's Chancellery, and went back there. I investigated Wirth's mail and I found in it confirmation of all this. Of course, I could not do or see all this on this first visit. I was there frequently. I pursued Wirth up to his death.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did Wirth give you names of people who were connected with this operation?
MORGEN: Not many names were mentioned, for the simple reason that the number of those who participated could be counted, so to speak, on one's fingers. I remember one name: I think the name was Blankenburg, in Berlin.
HERR PELCKMANN: Blankenburg?
MORGEN: Blankenburg, of the Fuehrer's Chancellery.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, we had better adjourn now. We have already been 50 minutes.
[The Tribunal adjourned until 8 August 1946 at 1000 hours.]

The Avalon Project : Nuremberg Trial Proceedings Vol. 20 - One Hundred Ninety-Seventh Day is located at : http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/08-07-46.htm;

One Hundred
and Ninety-Eighth Day
Thursday; 8 August 1946

Morning Session

[The witness Morgen resumed the stand.]
HERR PELCKMANN: Witness, I have two pictures to show to you. This has nothing to do with your examination concerning the concentration camps. [Turning to the President.] They are the same pictures, Your Lordship, which I showed to the witness Eizenberg yesterday. They have now received an exhibit number from me, Exhibit Number SS-2 and Exhibit Number SS-3. As I said yesterday, they are taken from the book, written in Polish, which the Prosecution submitted a few days ago, on Pages IX and XI. [Turning to the witness]: What is the rank of this SS man, Witness?
MORGEN: That cannot be an SS man. He is not wearing an SS uniform. I never saw such a uniform. On the left arm, the man wears the insignia of the Police and the Police shoulder patch.
HERR PELCKMANN: That is enough, Witness. I shall show you the second photograph.
Please answer the question just as briefly.
MORGEN: That is not an SS uniform either, but a fancy uniform.
HERR PELCKMANN: Thank you, Witness. Yesterday you had already begun the description of the so-called extermination camps and the system of the extermination camps, but I should like to go back to conditions in the concentration camps which are to be distinguished from the so-called extermination camps.
You had given a description of the outward impression given by these camps which was extraordinarily pleasing. In order not to give any false impression, will you please describe in general the negative observations which you made.
MORGEN: I was asked whether from my impressions of the concentration camps I
gained the idea that they were extermination

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camps. I had to say that I could not get this impression. I did not mean to say that the concentration camps were sanatoria) or a paradise for the prisoners. If they had been that, my investigations would have been senseless. Through these investigations I gained insight into the extremely dark and dismal side of the concentration camps. The concentration camps were establishments which, to put it mildly, were bound to give rise to crimes as a result of the application of a false principle. When I say the principle was at fault, I mean the following: The prisoner was sent to the concentration camp through the Reich Security Main Office. A political agency decided about his freedom, and its decision was final. Thereby the prisoner was deprived of all legal rights. Once in the concentration camp, it was almost impossible to regain freedom, although at regular intervals the cases were reviewed. The procedure was so complicated that, aside from exceptional instances, the great majority could have no hope. The camp, the Reich Security Main Office, and the agency which had assigned the individual to the camp, had to agree to his release. Only if these three, agencies reached an agreement could a release be effected. Thereby, not only the reason for the arrest was taken into consideration, but through a monstrous order of SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl the production side was also important. If a prisoner was needed in the camp because he was a good man, even though all conditions for release existed, he could not be released. The concentration camps were surrounded by a sphere of secrecy. The, prisoner was not allowed any free contact with the public.
MR. DODD: Mr. President, we do not have the first responsibility, of course, for this defense. But I have discussed with Mr. Elwyn Jones my objection, he has it in here, and he finds no fault with it. It seems to me that what we are hearing here is a lecture on the Prosecution's case, and I do not see how it in any sense can be said to be a defense of the SS.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, the Tribunal thinks that the latter part of the evidence does not have much bearing on the case of the SS. They think it would be better that you should get on with the case for the SS.
HERR PELCKMANN: The charge against the SS is essentially based on the assertion that the SS as a whole is responsible for the concentration camps.
I am endeavoring to explain to the Tribunal the concentration camp organization from the very beginning, including all those questions which have not yet been explained either by the Prosecution or the witnesses, in order to find out the absolute truth. And I believe that it is necessary for the Tribunal to know this truth in

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order to be able to judge whether the charge of the Prosecution that the SS as a whole is responsible for the atrocities and the mass exterminations in the concentration camps or in the extermination camps is justified. I assert ...
THE PRESIDENT: Kindly go on with your case, Dr. Pelckmann. Will you kindly go on and make it as short as you can upon these matters which seem to be rather remote.
HERR PELCKMANN: From all the testimony of witnesses which I submit here on this point, it will be shown that the concentration camp organization was an entity.
THE PRESIDENT: Go on with your case. You are to go on with your case, and not argue with me.
HERR PELCKMANN: Witness, what were the further negative observations which you made? Please be brief on this point as the Court wishes.
MORGEN: The prisoner could not contact the public freely, and so his observations were not made known to the public. By this isolation in the concentration camp he was practically under the sway of the camp. This meant that he had to fear that at any time crimes could be committed against him. I did not have the impression from these facts that their purpose was to produce a system of crimes; but, of necessity, individual crimes were bound to result from these conditions.
HERR PELCKMANN: Witness, the events and the atrocities and the mass exterminations in the concentration camps are precisely what was charged against the SS. Please describe how these crimes are to be classified in three categories, and what these crimes have to do with the total planning of the SS. According to your information, I distinguish between atrocities caused by conditions beyond control, atrocities caused by supreme orders, and atrocities caused by individual criminal acts.
MORGEN: To a great extent the horrible conditions at times prevailing in some concentration camps did not arise from deliberate planning, but developed from circumstances which in my opinion must be called force majeure, that is to say, evils for which the local camp leaders were not responsible. I am thinking of the outbreak of epidemics. At irregular intervals many concentration camps were visited by typhoid fever, typhus, and other sicknesses caused especially by the arrival of prisoners from the Eastern areas in the concentration camps. Although everything humanly possible was done to prevent these epidemics and to combat them, the death rate which resulted was extremely high. Another evil which may be considered as force majeure was the fluctuating numbers of new

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arrivals and the insufficient billets. Many camps were overcrowded. The prisoners arrived in a weakened condition because, due to air raids, the transports were under way longer than expected. Towards the end of the war, there was a general collapse of the transportation system. Supplies could not be carried Gut to the necessary extent; chemical and pharmaceutical factories had been systematically bombed, and all the necessary medicines were lacking. To top all, the evacuations from the East further burdened the camps and crowded them in an unbearable manner.
HERR PELCKMA.NN: That is enough on this point. Will you go on to the second point, the supreme orders?
MORGEN: As supreme orders I consider the mass extermination of human beings which has already been described, not in the concentration camps but in separate extermination places. There were also execution orders of the Reich Security Main Office against individuals and groups of persons.,, The third point deals with the majority of individual crimes of which I said ...
THE PRESIDENT: Which is the witness talking about when he talks about extermination camps? Which are you talking about? Which do you call extermination camps?
HERR PELCKMANN: Please answer the question, Witness.
MORGEN: By extermination camps I mean those which were established exclusively for the extermination of human beings with the use of technical means, such as gas.
THE PRESIDENT: Which were they?
MORGEN: Yesterday I described the four camps of the Kriminalkommissar Wirth and referred to the Camp Auschwitz. By "Extermination Camp Auschwitz" I did not mean the concentration camp. It did not exist there. I meant a separate extermination camp near Auschwitz, called "Monowitz."
THE PRESIDENT: What were the other ones?
MORGEN: I do not know of any other extermination camps.
HERR PELCKMANN: You were speaking of atrocities on the basis of individual acts of a criminal nature. Please continue.
MORGEN: One must distinguish between the types of perpetrators. There were even killings of one prisoner by another, for example, because of revenge. If a prisoner had escaped, then during the search, because one did not know where the prisoner was hiding-perhaps in the camp itself-the whole camp had to line up on the parade grounds. That often lasted for hours and sometimes a whole day. The prisoners were tired and hungry, and the long wait, standing sometimes in the cold or rain, excited them

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very much, so that when the prisoner was recaptured, the other prisoners, out of revenge for his having brought this upon them, beat him to death when the opportunity presented itself.
There were many cases in which prisoners who had the impression that one among them was a spy, attempted to kill this prisoner in self-defense. There were cases where individual prisoners, due to physical weakness, could not keep pace with the others as regards work and who, on top of it, aroused the disgust of the other prisoners by bad behavior, for instance, by stealing bread or similar acts. If one considers that a large part of the prisoners were professional criminals who had already been sentenced before, it seems plausible that these people killed such fellow prisoners. This was done in many ways.
HERR PELCKMANN: You need not explain that at the moment, we will come back to it later. But will you describe another type of perpetrator?
MORGEN: Now I come to killings committed by members of the camp against prisoners and by prisoners against fellow prisoners. To give a specific example I should like to describe the case of the commander of the Concentration Camp Buchenwald, Koch, who was legally tried and executed. The following individual case happened. A prisoner who was an old Party member was sent to the Concentration Camp Buchenwald. As one of the old guard he had obtained a job as Kurdirektor. He misused this position to force Polish household employees under threat of dismissal to commit perverted actions with him, although he himself was very syphilitic. This man was sentenced to a long term of penal servitude by a regular court and after that sent to the concentration camp. Koch found his files, considered the sentence an error, and thinking himself authorized to correct this error of justice, had the prisoner put to death. Another case of an entirely different sort is the following: Koch believed that a certain little Jewish prisoner, who had marked physical peculiarities, was following him to his various offices in the various camps. In superstitious fear of bad luck, he one day gave instructions to have this prisoner killed. Another case: Koch believed that his criminal activity, or certain personal relationships, were known to some prisoners. In order to protect himself, he had them killed.
HERR PELCKMANN: How were these killings made possible, and how could the other inmates of the camp know about them?
MORGEN: The procedure was very simple. The prisoners in question were called, without being given reasons, and had to report at the gate of the camp. That was nothing striking, because almost every hour prisoners were picked up there for questioning,

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for removal to other camps, and so forth. These prisoners, without the other prisoners becoming aware of it, came to the so-called Kommandantur prison, which was outside the camp. There they were held for a few days, often one or two weeks, and then the jailer had them killed, mostly in the form of a sham inoculation; actually, they were given an injection of phenol into the arteries.
Another possibility of secret killing was the occasional transfer to the hospital. The doctor simply stated that a man needed treatment. He brings him in and after some time he puts him into a single room and kills him there. In all these cases the record showed that the prisoner in question had died of such and such a normal illness.
Another case: The prisoner was assigned to a detail of hard work, generally the so-called "quarry detail." The Kapo of this detail is given a hint and makes the life of the prisoner more and more unbearable by making him work incessantly and vexing him in every respect. Then the day arrives when the prisoner loses patience and in order to escape, this torture, breaks through the cordon of sentries, whereupon the guard, whether he wants to or not, has to shoot him. These different forms of killing varied from case to case. By that very fact they were outwardly, unrecognizable, because they took place in secret places by various methods at various times. This presupposed that the commander who did this, like Koch here, relied on certain men who were absolutely devoted to him and who had key positions, such as the doctor here, who was arrested, the overseer, who was also arrested-and who committed suicide right after-and upon the aid of Kapos who were devoted to him and who co-operated with him. Where this co-operation was not possible, such excesses and crimes could not occur.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did you find such cases and such camps?
MORGEN: Yes. I have already mentioned the result of our investigations. Since the majority of the camps was set up during the war with new personnel and in the old camps the personnel in key positions was replaced by new people, this co-operation could no longer take place.
HERR PELCKMANN: Would it be wrong to assume that all camps and all camp commanders and all camp doctors acted in the way you have just described?
MORGEN: According to my exhaustive investigations, I can only say that this assumption would be completely wrong. I really met commanders who did everything humanly possible for their prisoners. . I met doctors whose every effort was to help sick prisoners and to prevent further sickness.

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HERR PELCKMANN: We will go back to the mass exterminations, one case of which you described. You spoke of Kriminalkommissar Wirth, who was not a member of the SS and whose staff did not consist of SS men. Why was Wirth given the assignment?
MORGEN: I have already mentioned that Wirth was Kriminalkommissar with the Criminal Police in Stuttgart. He was Kommissar for the investigation of capital crimes, particularly murder. He had quite a reputation in discovering clues, and before the seizure of power lie became known to the general public for unscrupulous methods of investigation which even led to a discussion in the Wurttemberg Landtag (Diet). This man was now used in order to cover up the traces of these mass killings. It was thought that on the basis of his previous professional experience this man was unscrupulous enough to do this job, and that was true.
HERR PELCKMANN: You mentioned the Jewish prisoners who aided in the killings.
What became of these people?
MORGEN: Wirth told me that at the end of the actions he would have these prisoners shot and in doing so, would despoil them of the profits which he had allowed them to make. He did not do this all at once, but by means of, the deceptive methods already described he lured and segregated the prisoners and then killed them individually.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did you hear from Wirth the name Hoess?
MORGEN: Yes. Wirth called him his untalented disciple.
MORGEN: In contrast to Wirth, Hoess used in principle entirely different methods. I would best describe them when we come to the subject of Auschwitz.
HERR PELCKMANN: Was the name Eichmann mentioned at that time?
MORGEN: I cannot remember that the name Eichmann was mentioned at that time, but later I heard of it, too.
HERR PELCKMANN: How did you come on the trail which led to Auschwitz? MORGEN: I got a clue by a remark of Wirth himself. Now I had only to find a reason to institute investigations in Auschwitz itself. I beg to bear in mind that my assignment was limited; I had to investigate crimes of corruption and crimes committed in connection with them.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, didn't he explain how he came to investigate Auschwitz yesterday?
HERR PELCKMANN: No, it was something entirely different, Your Lordship.

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MORGEN: Yesterday I spoke only of Lublin and Wirth. I said I received information about Hoess and wanted to try to get into the camp and needed a reason. I found this reason very soon.
The Protectorate Police had heard about the smuggling of gold in the Protectorate. The traces led to Berlin. The customs officials for Berlin-Brandenburg had found out persons who were on the staff of the Concentration Camp Auschwitz, and had turned over the proceedings to the SS and Police Court in Berlin. I learned of it there and I took charge of these proceedings-they dealt with enormous gold smuggling-and shortly thereafter went to Auschwitz.
HERR PELCKMANN: Then you were in Auschwitz proper?
MORGEN: Yes, I went to Auschwitz, and before I started with the investigation itself ...
THE PRESIDENT: When did you go there?
MORGEN: I cannot give the date exactly, but it must have been the end of 1943 or the beginning of 1944.
HERR PELCKMANN: The method of extermination there was probably similar to the one you described yesterday?
MORGEN: I thoroughly investigated the entire stretch of territory and studied the layout and installations. The prisoners arrived on a side track in closed transport cars and were unloaded there by Jewish prisoners. Then they were segregated into* able-bodied and disabled, and here already the methods of Hoess and Wirth differ. The separation of the disabled was done in a fairly simple way. Next to the place of the unloading there were several trucks and the doctor gave the arrivals the choice to use these trucks. He said that only sick, old persons and women with children, were allowed to use them. Thereupon these persons swarmed toward the transportation prepared for their use, and then he needed only to hold back the prisoners that he did not want to send to destruction. These trucks drove off, but they did not drive to the Concentration Camp Auschwitz, but in another direction to the Extermination Camp Monowitz, which was a few kilometers away. This extermination camp consisted of a number of crematories which were not recognizable as such from the outside. They could have been taken for large bathing establishments, and that is what they told the prisoners. These crematories were surrounded by a barbed wire fence and were guarded from the inside by the Jewish labor details which I have already mentioned. The new arrivals were led into a large dressing room and told to take their clothing off. When this was done ...
HERR PELCKMANN: Is that not what you described yesterday?
MORGEN: Of course,

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HERR PELCKMANN: What precautions were taken to keep these things absolutely secret?
MORGEN: The prisoners who marched off to the concentration camp had no inkling of where the other prisoners were taken. The Extermination Camp Monowitz lay far away from the concentration camp. It was situated on an extensive industrial site and was not recognizable as such and everywhere on the horizon there were smoking chimneys. The camp itself was guarded on the outside by special troops of men from the Baltic, Estonians, Lithuanians, Latvians, and also Ukrainians. The entire technical arrangement was almost exclusively in the hands of the prisoners who were assigned for this job and they were only supervised each time by an Unterfuehrer. The actual killing was done by another Unterf-i1hrer who let the gas into this room. Thus the number of those who knew about these things was extremely limited. This circle had to take a special oath...
THE PRESIDENT: Were these Unterfuehrer in the SS?
MORGEN: They wore SS uniforms.
THE PRESIDENT: Didn't you take the trouble to ascertain whether they were proper members of the SS?
MORGEN: I said that they were people from the Eastern territories.
THE PRESIDENT: I do not care what you have already said. What I asked you was, didn't you take the trouble to ascertain whether they were members of the SS? MORGEN: I beg your pardon, Your Lordship. I do not understand your question. They could not be members of the General SS. As far as I could learn, they were volunteers and draftees who had been recruited in the Baltic countries where they had carried out security tasks, and who were then somehow especially selected and sent to Auschwitz and Monowitz. These were special troops, who had only this particular task and no other. They were completely outside of the Waffen-SS ...
THE PRESIDENT: I didn't ask you if they were in the Waffen SS. Did you ask questions as to why they were put into SS uniforms?
MORGEN: No, I did not ask that question. It seemed incomprehensible to me. It is
probably due to the fact that the commander of the Concentration Camp Auschwitz
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute. You said, as I understand it, that you considered it incomprehensible why they wore the SS uniforms. Didn't you say that?

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THE PRESIDENT: Were there no officers of the SS there at all?
MORGEN: One officer, the commander of this company, I believe a Hauptsturmfuehrer Hartenstein, or something like that.
THE PRESIDENT: Why didn't you ask him why these men were put into SS uniforms? MORGEN: The extermination camp was under the direction of SS Standartenfuehrer Hoess. Hoess was commander of the Concentration Camp Auschwitz, and also of the extermination camp, Monowitz. Around Auschwitz were a number of labor camps and I have already said ...
THE PRESIDENT: I didn't ask you where. What I am asking you is why you didn't ask these two SS men why they put these men into SS uniforms?
MORGEN: I assumed that this was done for camouflage reasons so that this extermination camp would not be distinguished outwardly from the other labor camps and the concentration camp itself. As a soldier it was incomprehensible to me that this damage to the reputation of the SS was tolerated as it had nothing to do with this extermination.
THE PRESIDENT: You yourself were a high SS officer, were you not?
MORGEN: I was Sturmbannfuehrer of the Waffen-SS.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, what I am asking you is this: why, in those circumstances, you made no inquiry about it, and why you didn't ask these high SS officers there, "What is the meaning of these men being put into SS uniforms?"
MORGEN: I did not understand the question.
HERR PELCKMANN: Witness, I should like to ask you the question myself. Why did you not ask the higher SS leaders whom you met there why these people were working in SS uniforms?
MORGEN: I said that I had the impression that this was clone for reasons of camouflage so that the camp would not be distinguished from the other camps through the use of different uniforms.
HERR PELCKMANN: This explanation which you gave yourself is the reason why you did not question the officers, is that true?
MORGEN: At any rate I cannot remember having asked the officers about it. I did not speak to any officers except to the commander, Hoess, and the commander of the guards of the extermination camp.

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HERR PELCKMANN: Have you described everything which ...
HERR PELCKMANN: Have you said everything in answer to the question as to how secrecy was secured?
MORGEN: Another important point may perhaps be mentioned. Certain Jewish prisoners with connections abroad were selected and were made to write letters abroad telling how well-off they were in Auschwitz, so that the public got the impression that these well-known people were alive and could write that they were doing well.
HERR PELCKMANN: Thank you. Now, Witness, under normal circumstances what would you have had to do after you had learned of all these terrible things?
MORGEN: Under normal circumstances I would have had to have Kriminalkommissar Wirth and Commander Hoess arrested and charged with murder.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did you do that?
MORGEN: The answer is already entailed in the question. The circumstances prevailing in Germany during the war were no longer normal in the sense of State legal guarantees. Besides, the following must be considered: I was not simply a judge, but I was a judge of military penal justice. No court-martial in the world could bring the Supreme Commander, let alone the head of the State, to court.
HERR PELCKMANN: Please do not discuss problems of law, but tell us why you did not do what you realized you should have done?
MORGEN: I beg your pardon; I was saying that it was not possible for me as Obersturmbannfuehrer to arrest Hitler, who, as I saw it, was the instigator of these orders.
HERR PELCKMANN: Then what did you do?
MORGEN: On the basis of this insight, I realized that something had to be done immediately to put an end to this action. Hitler had to be induced to withdraw his orders. Under the circumstances, this could be done only by Himmler as Minister of the Interior and Minister of the Police. I thought at that time that I must endeavor to approach Himmler through the heads of the departments and make it clear to him, by explaining the effects of this system, that through these methods the State was being led straight into an abyss. Therefore I approached my immediate superior, the chief of the Criminal Police, SS Obergruppenfuehrer Nebe; then I turned to

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the chief of the Main Office SS Courts, SS Obergruppenfuehrer Breithaupt. I also approached Kaltenbrunner and the chief of the Gestapo, Gruppenfuehrer Muller, and Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl of the Economic and Administrative Main Office, and the Reichsarzt, Gruppenfuehrer Dr. Grawitz. But aside from taking these necessary steps, I saw a practical way open to me by way of justice; that is, by removing from this system of destruction the leaders and important elements through the means offered by the system itself., I could not do this with regard to the killings ordered by the head of the State, but I could do it for killings outside of this order, or against this order, or for other serious crimes. For that reason, I deliberately started proceedings against these men, and this would have led to a shake-up of this system and its final collapse. But these activities had another far-reaching effect in the near future, for through the big concentration camp trials against Commander Koch, of whom I spoke earlier, and against the head of the political section at Auschwitz-Kriminalsekretur Untersturmfuehrer Grabner, whom I charged with murder in 2,000 cases outside of this extermination action-the whole affair of these killings had to be brought to trial. It was to be expected that the perpetrators would refer to higher orders also for these individual crimes. This occurred; thereupon the SS jurisdiction, on the basis of the material which I supplied, approached the highest government chiefs and officially asked, "Did you order these killings? Is the legal fact of murder no longer valid for you? What general orders are there concerning these killings?" Then the supreme State leadership would either have to admit its mistakes and thereby bring the culprits definitely under our jurisdiction also with regard to the mass exterminations, or else an open break would have to result through the abrogation of the entire judicial system. If I may anticipate, on account of the trial in Weimar against Koch and Grabner, this problem became acute as I had foreseen; the proceedings were suspended and the SS jurisdiction put these questions, which I mentioned before, publicly and officially to the Reich Security Main Office. For this very purpose a judge was sent there, who had the task of investigating all sections of the Reich Security Main Office, to see whether such orders were in existence. As I heard, the result was negative. Thereupon an attempt was made to take direct steps against Hoess, but in the meantime the front had advanced, Auschwitz was occupied and the judge who had, been sent there had to stop at the beginning of his fruitless investigations, and in January 1945 complete disorganization set in which made further legal prosecution impossible. If I may go, back, the immediate effects of the judicial investigation were that in all concentration camps the killing of prisoners by so-called "euthanasia" stopped immediately, because no, doctor could feel sure that he would not be arrested from one moment to the next.

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bore in mind the example that was set by the case of the doctor of Buchenwald. I am convinced that through this intervention and action the lives of thousands of prisoners were saved. The killing system was severely shaken; for it is noteworthy that on my second visit to Lublin, shortly after I first approached Kriminalkommissar Wirth, I did not find him there. I learned that in the meantime Wirth had suddenly received ' orders to completely destroy all his extermination camps. He had gone to Istria with his entire command, and was guarding streets there, and while doing so he was killed in May 1944. When I heard that Wirth and his command had left Lublin I immediately flew there in order to find out whether he was merely transferring his field of activity and would continue elsewhere, but that was not so.
HERR PELCKMANN: Witness, were you in danger of your life in all these investigations?
MORGEN: It was clear that the discovery of these horrible crimes was extremely unpleasant to those responsible for them. I knew that a human life meant nothing to these people and that they were ready for anything. As proof, I may cite the following: after I had arrested Grabner, the chief of the political section in Auschwitz, and the investigating commission ...
THE PRESIDENT: You aren't forgetting that you said you were going to take 45 minutes with this witness, are you, Herr Pelckmann?
HERR PELCKMANN: No, Your Lordship, I have not forgotten, and I regret exceedingly that it is taking longer than I expected, but I believe that I owe the Tribunal this explanation of the facts.
THE PRESIDENT: It seems of very little importance whether this man was in danger of his life or not.
HERR PELCKMANN: From the point of view of the defense, Your Lordship, I am of a different opinion, since for the conditions and possibilities of opposing this system, and for Number 1 of the ruling of the Court of 13 March, or rather Number 2, compulsion and orders are of decisive importance.
THE PRESIDENT: Go on, Herr Pelckmann. The Tribunal does not think it is important.
MORGEN: May I say one more sentence on that subject: the investigating commission of the Reich Criminal Police Department at Auschwitz was quartered in wooden hutments, and after it had worked with success for some time, unknown persons at night destroyed the hutments by fire with all the documents. The investigations in Auschwitz were interrupted and made difficult for a long time.
You may see from that how ruthless was the opposition

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to us. I, myself, received enough warnings and threats, but whether I was actually in danger of my life I cannot say.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did the directing personnel of the Concentration Camp Auschwitz in any way justify the assumption that they knew of these exterminations? I emphasize again-if I understood you correctly the Concentration Camp Auschwitz, with its many labor camps, had nothing to do with the extermination camp and was separate from it?
MORGEN: As I have already said, Hoess was simultaneously commander of Auschwitz and Monowitz; he is to be considered the chief of the personnel, aside from the one leader of the Monowitz troops. I dealt only with these two, and these two knew about it.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did you speak to the doctor of the Concentration Camp Auschwitz?
MORGEN: Yes. When I arrived, the doctor showed me the mortality figures at the time he took over. He pointed out with a gleam in his eye how since his transfer to Auschwitz these huge figures had dropped precipitately through extensive hygienic measures and changes. In this connection he came to talk about Grabner. Grabner had expected him to kill pregnant Polish women. The doctor had refused since it was irreconcilable with his professional duties. Thereupon Grabner had reproached him for not realizing the importance of his, Grabner's, tasks. The doctor did not give in and a quarrel arose which was carried on before the commander, and neither Hoess nor Grawitz said anything. Thus the doctor, at the time when I met him by accident, was in a distressed frame of mind and said "What shall I do?" I said to him "What you have done so far, absolute refusal, is quite in order, and tomorrow I will arrest Grabner."
THE PRESIDENT: What does this have to do with the SS unless the doctor was in the SS; perhaps he was.
HERR PELCKMANN: It is well known that the doctors were SS doctors, and the witness is describing how an SS doctor in this Concentration Camp Auschwitz opposed the suggestion of Grabner. He is describing that as a typical case.
THE PRESIDENT: Herr Pelckmann, the Tribunal thinks you have been quite long enough over this witness. You are going into matters too much in detail.
HERR PELCKMANN: You said previously that you had reported to the various agencies and named three of them, I believe. Please describe how Nebe reacted. What was Breithaupt's attitude? What did Kaltenbrunner and Muller say? What was Pohl's attitude, and how did the Reich Physician Grawitz react?

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MORGEN: First I reported to my immediate superior, SS Gruppenfuehrer Nebe, as chief of the RKPA. Nebe was an extremely taciturn man, but I could see that his hair stood on end when I made my report. He was absolutely silent. Then he said that I must immediately report this matter to Kaltenbrunner. The chief of the Hauptamt SS Courts, Obergruppenfuehrer Breithaupt, also became very much excited. He said that he would immediately go to see Himmler and report this to him and try to have a personal interview with Himmler arranged for me. The Reich Physician also did not know what to say. Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl, however, took another attitude. Previously, or about the same time, I had had the commander of the Concentration Camp Hertogenbosch arrested, who had caused the death of 10 women through punitive measures. When I reported this to Pohl he said these were trifles. He said, "What do the lives of 10 women matter in view of the thousands of German women dying every night in the air raids?"
HERR PELCKMANN: Please be more brief on the others.
MORGEN: After I had already reported to Obergruppenfuehrer Kaltenbrunner about the actual corruption crimes, the deadly crimes which I discovered about 6 months later, a conversation took place in the presence of Nebe, Kaltenbrunner, and Muller. This discussion was extraordinarily one-sided. Kaltenbrunner and Nebe were absolutely silent while Muller, white with rage, was infuriated with me and did not give me a chance to get in a word. When I looked at him calmly, he suddenly jumped up and rushed out of the room and left me alone, while the other two gentlemen turned away from me. In the afternoon I went to see Muller again and personally told him my point of view once again, but Muller was still absolutely against it.
HERR PELCKMANN: Very well, did you ...
THE PRESIDENT: What was the date of this conversation with Kaltenbrunner?
MORGEN: That was immediately after the charge was raised against Grabner. I assume in July or August 1944.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did you report these things to other circles of the SS? MORGEN: No. I wanted to inform and win over those people, who really had something to say, to my point of view. Nothing else counted. Besides that, I was bound by Basic Order Number 1, concerning secrecy on State affairs, and could only approach the chiefs of the main offices personally. Any mistake I would have made in contacting other offices would have had serious results for me and would have given my enemies a pretext for protracting the investigation.

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THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, he said he did not report it. Surely that is sufficient. We don't want to know more about it. He did not report. We are not trying the witness.
HERR PELCKMANN: I beg your pardon, I believe that is a mistake, if I understood correctly. He said he did report.
THE PRESIDENT: He said he made no other report, as I understood it, except this that he has spoken of.
HERR PELCKMANN: Witness, will you comment on that?
MORGEN: That is true. Aside from the chief of the Main Office of the SS, no one else was informed.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did you not consider it your duty to inform the public or to clear your conscience somehow by raising the cry "murder"?
MORGEN: I would have needed access to the technical means for doing this, that is to the press and the radio, which I did not have. If I had blurted that out at every street comer, no one would have believed me, because this system was beyond human imagination. I would have been locked up as insane.
HERR PELCKMANN: The Camp Dachau was here described as a pure extermination camp by the Prosecution and by certain witnesses. Is that true?
MORGEN: I believe that from my investigation from May to July 1944 1 know the Concentration Camp Dachau rather well. I must say that I had the opposite impression. The Concentration Camp Dachau was always considered a very good camp, the prisoners considered it a rest camp, and I actually did get that impression.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did you see the internal arrangements, the hospital, and so forth?
MORGEN: I examined all these facilities carefully, and I must say the hospital was in excellent order. I went through all the wards. There was no noticeable overcrowding, and remarkably enough the number of medical instruments which were at the service of the prisoners was astonishing. Amongst the prisoners themselves were leading medical specialists.
HERR PELCKMANN: Very well. You want to say that conditions were good. But you thereby contradict the testimony of the witness, Dr. Blaha, which was made the subject of evidence here. Do you know his testimony?
MORGEN: I have read the testimony of Dr. Blaha in the press, and here I have had the opportunity to look through the record of the Trial. I must say I am amazed at this testimony. I am of the opinion that Blaha, from his own knowledge, cannot make such

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statements. It is not true that a prisoner in a concentration camp can move about freely and have access to the different sections and installations.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal thinks he can say that he disagrees with the evidence of Blaha, but not that Blaha was not telling the truth. He disagrees, he said it. We think you might get on. How much more time do you anticipate that you'll take?
HERR PELCKMANN: Five minutes, Your Lordship. You were just about to say, Witness, why you did not agree with the testimony of Blaha?
MORGEN: I said ...
THE PRESIDENT: He has given his own evidence about the matter, and he says he is in contradiction with Blaha. We don't want further details about it.
HERR PELCKMANN: Mr. President, if I understood correctly, the witness is to give more credible testimony. If he does not say that on such and such points of the testimony of Blaha he has such and such an objection, the Prosecution can say he did not comment on it. That is my endeavor. Please instruct me, Your Lordship, if I am mistaken.
THE PRESIDENT: He has given his account on the camp at Dachau. The Tribunal has before it the evidence and testimony of Blaha. The Tribunal can see for itself if the evidence is inconsistent. That is sufficient.
HERR PELCKMANN: I only attemp
Last edited by David Thompson on 19 Nov 2004 14:11, edited 1 time in total.

David Thompson
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Post by David Thompson » 16 Aug 2002 23:03

The T-4 group you refer to is "Aktion T-4", the German national euthanasia project. Michael Miller's ABR site has some valuable biographies of the people involved in it. A number of the non-medical "Aktion T-4" personnel were reassigned to the first Nazi extermination camps at Belzec and Sobibor. Here are some details on "Aktion T-4":

On July 14, 1934 the Reich Cabinet enacted a "Law for Averting Hereditarily Diseased Progeny", legalized forced sterilization. (Expand on "Law...Diseased Progeny")
On July 25, 1933 the Reich Cabinet published a law providing for the compulsary sterilization of men and women suffering from certain hereditary diseases. (Into That Darkness 60-61)
On October 8, 1935 the Reich Cabinet enacted a "Law to Safeguard the Hereditary Health of the German People," which legalized abortion in cases of pregnancy where either of the parents suffered from certain hereditary diseases. (Into That Darkness 62)
On September 1, 1939, Adolf Hitler signed an order giving the Chief of the Fuehrer Chancellory, Reichsleiter Philip Bouhler, and Dr. Karl Brandt, Hitler's personal physician, the power "to widen the authority of individual doctors with a view to enabling them, after the most critical examination in the realm of human knowledge, to administer to incurably sick persons a mercy death"--in other words, a euthanasia program. (Hilberg 561)

Bouhler and Dr. Brandt coordinated the euthanasia program with Dr. Herbert Linden, the Reich Interior Ministry's head of the Heredity and Race sub-department of the Department of National Health and plenipotentiary for state hospitals and nursing homes (Reichsbeauftrager fuer die Heil-und Pflegeanstalten). (Friedlander 65) Bouhler and Dr. Brandt then compiled a list of physicians to administer the program, which was code-named "T-4." (Friedlander 66) The code-name or euphemism for the killings themselves was "disinfection." (Nazi Mass Murder 35)
Dr. Werner Heyde, professor of neurology and psychiatry at Wuerzberg University, was the first medical director of the program. He was later succeeded by Dr. Paul Nitsche, professor of neurology and psychiatry at Halle University, the program's senior expert. Dr. Carl Schneider, professor of neurology and psychiatry at Heidelberg University, also participated in the program. (Nazi Mass Murder 15) Other physicians included Dr. Ernst Wentzler, Dr. Hellmuth Unger, University of Berlin psychiatry professor Dr. Max de Crinis, Jena University psychiatry professor Dr. Berthold Kihn, Dr. Valentin Faltlhauser, Dr. Hans Heinze, Dr. Hermann Pfannmueller and Dr. Bender from the Buch State Hospital in Berlin. (Friedlander 66)
SS-Oberfuehrer Viktor Brack (code-name "Jennerwein"), a civil servant on the Fuehrer Chancellery staff, was responsible for making the decisions as to who would be killed in the euthanasia program. Brack's deputy was Werner Blankenburg (code-name "Brenner"), who also participated in the decisions. (Nazi Mass Murder 24; Friedlander 67)
The Criminal Technology Institute of the Reich Criminal Police Department had the responsibility for deciding the method to be used in killing the patients. (Nazi Mass Murder 26) The Institute was headed by SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Hesse. (Hilberg 184-185) (Friedlander 55 gives the name and rank as SS-Standartenfuehrer und Kriminaldirektor Dr. Walter Heess.) SS-Untersturmfuehrer Dr. August Becker of the Criminal Technology Institute was responsible for the delivery of the carbon monoxide gas which was used in the euthanasia killings. (Nazi Mass Murder 30-31) SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Albert Widmann, the head of the chemistry section of the Criminal Technology Institute, provided the poison gas. (Friedlander 55)
Transportation to the euthanasia facilities was handled by the Charitable Society for the Transportation of the Sick (Gekrat), headed by Reinhold Vorberg (code-name "Hintertal"), the administrative director of the Fuehrer Chancellory. (Nazi Mass Murder 17-18) Dietrich Allers, the director of the Central Compensation Office for Sanatoria and Nursing Homes, handled the bookkeeping and allocation of expenses amongst the various facilities after 1940. Allers succeeded Gerhard Bohne in the position. (Nazi Mass Murder 18; Friedlander 69)
The euthanasia program included children. This portion of the program was supervised by the chief of the Reich Committee for the Scientic Registration of Severe Hereditary Ailments, Hans Hefelmann. Hefelmann was later succeeded by Richard von Hegener. (Friedlander 74)

Euthanasia Facilities
Bernburg-an-der-Saale -- Drs. Irmfried Eberl (code-name "Dr. Schneider" and perhaps "Dr. Meyer"), Heinrich Bunke (code-names "Dr. Rieper" and "Dr. Keller") and Kurt Borm (code-name "Dr. Storm") were the heads of the euthanasia program at this facility. (Nazi Mass Murder 18; Friedlander 89, 103) It was taken over by the euthanasia program in September of 1940. (Friedlander 92)
Brandenburg-Havel -- This facility became active in late 1939 in an old prison building in Berlin. The construction of the killing facilities were supervised by Adolf Gustav Kaufmann. (Friedlander 89) Dr. Irmfried Eberl was the director of Brandenburg-Havel, succeeded by Dr. Heinrich Bunke and Dr. Aquilin Ullrich (code-name "Dr. Schmitt"). (Friedlander 89, 103) The asylum was closed in November of 1940 and the patients transferred to the killing facility at Bernburg-an-der-Saale. (Nazi Mass Murder 18)
Grafeneck Castle -- Originally operated by the Samaritan Foundation in Stuttgart, the T-4 program took over the building for euthanasia purposes in October of 1939. It began killing operations in January of 1940. Dr. Horst Schumann was director of Grafeneck asylum, later succeeded by Dr. Ernst Baumhard (code-name "Dr. Jaeger") and Dr. Guenther Hennecke (perhaps code-named "Dr. Ott"). (Friedlander 89, 103) It was closed in December of 1940 and replaced by the asylum at Hadamar. (Nazi Mass Murder 18-19, 27)
Hadamar -- This asylum, located near Limburg-an-der-Lahn, began killing operations in January of 1941. Dr. Ernst Baumhardt was the director of Hademar, followed by Drs. Guenther Hennecke, Friedrich Berner (code-name "Dr. Barth") and Hans-Bobo Gorgass (code-name "Dr. Kramer"). (Friedlander 89, 103) In the summer of 1941 Dr. Friedrich Berner celebrated the gassing of the 10,000th patient at Hadamar. (Nazi Mass Murder 19, 36-37)
Hartheim Castle -- This asylum was located near Linz, on the Danube. It was in operation by May of 1940 at the latest, and its director was Dr. Rudolf Lonauer, followed by Dr. Georg Renno. (Nazi Mass Murder 18-19; Friedlander 89, 103)
Sonnenstein-bei-Pirna -- This asylum began killing operations in April of 1940, under director Dr. Horst Schumann. Dr. Schumann was succeeded by Dr. Kurt Borm, Dr. Klaus Endruweit (code-name "Dr. Bader"), Dr. Kurt Schmalenbach (perhaps code-named "Dr. Blume") and Dr. Ewald Worthmann. (Nazi Mass Murder 19; Friedlander 89, 103)

Adolf Hitler's euthanasia program experienced its first successful experiment with poison gas on January 4, 1940, after a number of murders by injection. The gassing experiment took place at Brandenburg asylum, not far from Berlin, and was described by Dr. August Becker of the Criminal Technical Institute (KTI) of the German police:
"I was ordered by [Reichsamtsleiter Viktor] Brack to attend the first euthanasia experiment in the Brandenburg asylum near Berlin. I went to the asylum in the first half of January 1940. Additional building work had been carried out especially for the purpose. There was a room similar to a shower room which was approximately 3 metres by 5 metres and 3 metres high and tiled. There were benches round the room and a water pipe about 1" in diameter ran along the wall about 10 cm off the floor. There were small holes in this pipe from which the carbon monoxide gas poured out. The gas cylinders stood outside this room and were already connected up to the pipe. The work on this installation had been carried out by the SS Main Building Office in Berlin . . . .
There were already two mobile crematoria in the asylum with which to burn the corpses. There was a rectangular peephole in the entrance door, which was constructed like an air raid shelter door, through which the delinquents could be observed. The first gassing was carried out by Dr. [Albert] Widmann personally. He turned the gas tap and regulated the amount of gas . . . .
As far as I can remember, among the prominent personalities who were there were: the doctors already mentioned, Professor Dr. [Karl] Brandt, the Fuehrer's personal physician, and a detective [Kriminalkommissar SS-Haupsturmfuehrer Christian], Wirth, at that time head of the homicide branch in the Stuttgart police department and later head of the Hartheim asylum near Linz. For this first gassing about 18-20 people were led into this 'shower room' by the nursing staff. These men had to undress in an anteroom until they were completely naked. The doors were shut behind them. These people went quietly into the room and showed no signs of being upset. Dr Widmann operated the gas. I could see through the peephole that after about a minute the people had collapsed or lay on the benches. There were no scenes and no disorder.
After a further five minutes the room was ventilated. Specially assigned SS people collected the dead on special stretchers and took them to the crematoria. When I say special stretchers I mean stretchers specially constructed for this purpose. They could be placed directly on the ovens and the corpses could be pushed into the oven mechanically by means of a device without the people carrying them coming into contact with the corpse. These ovens and the stretchers were also constructed in Brack's department . . . .
Following this successful test, Brack -- who was naturally also present and whom I forgot to mention -- said a few words. He expressed satisfaction with the test and emphasized once again that this action must only be carried out by doctors according to the motto -- 'syringes are a matter for doctors'. Finally, Dr. Brandt spoke and reiterated that doctors alone should carry out this gassing." (Nazism 2, #739)
On March 19, 1940, Theophil Wurm, the Protestant Bishop of Wuerttemberg, sent an outraged letter of protest to Reich Interior Minister Dr. Wilhelm Frick, condemning the Nazi euthanasia program. (Into That Darkness 74)
By June of 1940, the practice of stealing gold fillings from the teeth of Jewish mental patients, killed in the euthanasia program, had already begun among the SS (Schutzstaffel or Elite Guard) units responsible for administering the program. (Fleming 24)
The Bishop of the Wuertemberg Evangelical Provincial Church wrote a letter to Reich Minister of the Interior Dr. Wilhelm Frick on July 19, 1940, complaining about the murders of patients in Germany's euthanasia program:
"For some months past, insane, feeble-minded and epileptic patients of state and private medical establishments have been transferred to another institution on the orders of the Reich Defense Council. Their relatives, even when the patient was kept at their cost, are not informed of the transfer until after it has taken place. Mostly they are informed a few weeks later that the patient concerned had died of an illness, and that, owing to the danger of infection, the body had to be cremated. On a superficial estimate several hundred patients from institutions in Wuerttemberg alone must have met their death in this way, among them war-wounded of the Great War.
Owing to numerous inquiries from town and country and from the most variegated circles, I consider it my duty to point out to the Reich Government that this affair is causing a particular stir in our small province. Firstly because one of the institutions concerned, Grafeneck castle, to which the patients are delivered and where a crematorium and registrar's office have been set up, is in Wuerttemberg . . . . The castle lies on a height on the Swabian Alb in a sparsely populated forest district. With all the more attention does the population of the surrounding area follow the events that take place there. The transports of sick persons who are unloaded at the small railway station of Marback a.L., the buses with opaque windows which bring sick persons from more distant railway stations or directly from the institutions, the smoke which rises from the crematorium and which can be noticed even from a considerable distance--all this gives all the more rise to speculation as no one is allowed into the castle . . . . The manner [emphasis in original] of action is already sharply criticized in these circles; there is much talk, in particular, of deceptions which occur in this connection. Everybody is convinced that the causes of deaths which are published officially are selected at random. When, to crown everything, regret is expressed in the obituary notice that all endeavors to preserve the patient's life were in vain, this is felt as a mockery. But is, above all, the air of mystery which gives rise to the thought that something is happening that is contrary to justice and ethics and cannot therefore be defended by the Government with full publicity like other necessary and severe war measures. This point is continually stressed -- by simple people as well -- in numerous written and oral statements which come to us. It also appears that very little care was taken, at the first at any rate, in the selection of the patients destined for annihilation. They did not limit themselves to insane persons, but included also persons capable of work, especially among the epileptics . . . .
I can imagine, Mr. Minister, that this protest will be regarded as embarrassing. Hardly dare I express the hope, either, that my voice will be heard. If, nevertheless, I have made this declaration, I have done so primarily because the relations of the compatriots affected expect such action from the leaders of a church. I am also, however, moved by the thought that his action may perhaps give rise to a serious examination and to the abandonment of this path. Dixi et salvari animam meam!" (Tyranny on Trial 323)
The supervisor of the sanatorium for mental patients and epileptics at Stehn, Germany (now a part of Poland), protested against the Nazi euthanasia program in a September 6, 1940 letter to the Reich Minister of Justice, Dr. Franz Guertner:
"The measures which are at present being applied to mental patients of all kinds have led to the rise of a feeling of absolute legal insecurity among wide circles of the population. Such patients are transferred from the institutions, without obtaining the consent of their relations or guardians, to other institutions from which after a short time notification follows that the persons concerned have died of some kind of disease. In view of the multitude of death notifications, the people are convinced that these patients are done away with . . . .
Because of the absolute secrecy and impenetrability in which measures are carried out; not only the wildest rumours arise among the people (for instance, that people who cannot work because of age or wounds received in the Great War, have been done away with or are also to be done away with), but also they get the impression that the selection of the persons affected by this measure is done in a completely arbitrary manner.
If the State really wants to carry out the extermination of these patients or certain kinds of mental diseases, should not a clear law--openly accounted for to the people--be published, a law which would give every single person the guarantee of a careful examination of his liability to die or right to live, and would also give relatives the chance to be heard, as in the case of the law for the prevention of the transmission of hereditary diseases?
With regard to the other patients entrusted to our institutions, I urgently beg you to do all you can to get the execution of these measures suspended, at least until a clear legal position has been created." (Terror on Trial 324)
SS-Gruppenfuehrer Wilhelm Koppe, the Higher SS and Police Leader in the Wartheland, a part of Nazi-annexed Poland, reported to SS-Gruppenfuehrer Jakob Sporrenberg on October 18, 1940 that "the so-called Sonderkommando Lange, assigned to me for special tasks, was detached to Soldau in East Prussia from 21 May to 8 June, 1940, as per agreement with the Reich Main Security Office [RSHA]. During this period, it successfully evacuated 1,558 mental patients from the Soldau transit camp." The surrounding facts, circumstances and related correspondence make it clear that this "evacuation" was, in fact, an execution of mental patients who had been transferred from eastern Prussian hospitals to the concentration camp at Soldau. (Fleming 21)
The Vatican published a statement condemning euthanasia on December 2, 1940, without mentioning the Nazi program of exterminating mentally ill patients in Germany:
"The direct killing of an innocent person because of mental or physical defects is not allowed. With the decree of 2 December 1940 the Holy Office replies to the following
Question: Whether it is permissible on the basis of an order by the state authority directly to kill those who, although they have not committed a crime worthy of death, nevertheless cannot be of any further use to the nation and are rather a burden for the nation and an hindrance to its energy and strength.
Answer: No, since it is against the natural and positive law of God. His Holiness Pope Pius XII has approved and confirmed this decision of the cardinals in his audience on 1 December and ordered its publication." (Nazism 2, #757)
On March 9, 1941 Konrad von Preysing, the Roman Catholic Bishop of Berlin, delivered a sermon from the pulpit of St. Hedwig's Cathedral attacking the Nazi euthanasia program. (Into That Darkness 74-5)
During the summer of 1941, on a train trip through the town of Hof, near Nuremberg, Adolf Hitler's coach was delayed while some mental patients were loaded onto trucks. An outraged crowd jeered at the Fuehrer for his euthanasia program. (Into That Darkness 59)
On August 13, 1941 the Bishop of Limburg, Germany, wrote a personal letter protesting the Nazi euthanasia program to the Reich Minister of Justice:
"All God-fearing men consider this destruction of helpless beings as crass injustice. And if anybody says that Germany cannot win the war, if there is yet a just God, these expressions are not the result of a lack of love of fatherland but of a deep concern for our people. The population cannot grasp that systematic actions are carried out which in accordance with Par. 211 [the murder statute] of the German criminal code are punishable with death! High authority as a moral concept has suffered a severe shock as a result of these happenings. The official notice that N. N. had died of a contagious disease and that for that reason his body has to be burned, no longer finds credence, and such official notices which are no longer believed have further undermined the ethical value of the concept of authority.
Officials of the Secret State Police, it is said, are trying to suppress discussion of the Hadamar [a mental hospital and euthanasia facility] occurrences by means of severe threats. In the interest of public peace, this may be well intended. But the knowledge and the conviction and the indignation of the population cannot be changed by it; the conviction will be increased with the bitter realization that discussion is prohibited with threats but that the actions themselves are not prosecuted under penal law.
I beg you most humbly, Herr Reich Minister, in the sense of the report of the Episcopate of July 16 of this year, to prevent further transgressions of the Fifth Commandment of God." (Terror on Trial 325-6)
By order of Adolf Hitler dated August 24, 1941, his euthanasia order of September 1, 1939 was rescinded. The euthanasia operation, termed "Aktion T4," was disbanded on August 28, 1941 after taking a toll of 90,000 lives. 80,000 of the murdered victims were mental patients and 10,000 were concentration camp prisoners subjected to "special treatment." (Fleming 23)
In his Pastoral Letter "Mystici Corporis," Pope Pius XII spoke out against euthanasia on June 29, 1943. (Into That Darkness 76)
In a pastoral letter on September 12, 1943, all of the Roman Catholic Bishops of Germany joined in condemning euthanasia, as well as the murder of "innocent hostages, prisoners of war or penal institutions, and human beings of foreign race or extraction." (Into That Darkness 72)

[Moderator's note -- subsequently edited to remove inadvertent "smilies"]
Last edited by David Thompson on 19 Nov 2004 13:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by fju » 16 Aug 2002 23:26

There stll seems to be a strong connection between T-4 and the Holocaust.
The euthanasia program proved to be a valuable precursor to the atrocities which were to come in connection with the "Final Solution." SS Major Christian Wirth was transferred from his duties at a euthanasia center to take over the supervision of Chelmo, the first of six extermination camps in Poland to become operational. His expertise in mass extermination seems to have been a major consideration. Wirth later served at Belzek, Treblinka and Sobibor. In 1942, Franz Stangl was transferred from one of the euthanasia centers to Sobibor extermination camp where he served as camp commander. He performed so well there that he was transferred in the summer of 1942 to Treblinka [Many years later, in 1970, Stangl was extradited from Brazil to West Germany to stand trial. He was found guilty of joint responsibility for the murder of 900,000 Jews]. After the Wannsee Conference in 1942, the staff of Euthanasie Program was transferred to Operation Reinhard.

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Post by David Thompson » 16 Aug 2002 23:39

Franz -- You're absolutely right. The "Aktion T-4" personnel provided the transition from the euthanasia program to the death camps.

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Post by Luca » 17 Aug 2002 00:30

8O 8O 8O 8O
Very very interessant!!!
thank You very much!!!!
What was the fate of the Sturmbannfuhurer Morgen?

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Judge Morgen

Post by fju » 17 Aug 2002 02:26

He was not convicted of any war crimes. He worked as a lawyer in post war Germany, and was working on his autobiography. He died, fairly recently I believe.

Here is some of the material I collected:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/mes ... 8.1&maxT=5


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Post by gabriel pagliarani » 20 Aug 2002 13:37

How many people were killed by mean of "Aktion T4" euthanasia program?
How many people had to die by mean of their own illness during the same year they were killed? Have someone undoubtful evidence of such a massacre? These were the reasons because the judge couldn't jail all the criminals involved in Aktion T-4: a terrible lack in evidences...

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Re: Casualties

Post by Roberto » 20 Aug 2002 16:02

gabriel pagliarani wrote:How many people were killed by mean of "Aktion T4" euthanasia program?
How many people had to die by mean of their own illness during the same year they were killed? Have someone undoubtful evidence of such a massacre? These were the reasons because the judge couldn't jail all the criminals involved in Aktion T-4: a terrible lack in evidences...
What trial(s) are you referring to?

Have a look at the trial summaries featured on the Justiz und NS Verbrechen site of the University of Amsterdam:


under the term "Geisteskranke".

According to the findings of the Frankfurt County Court, the number of victims of Aktion T4 was 70,273, distributed by the various murder institutions as follows:

Grafeneck 9.839
Brandenburg 9.772
Bernburg 8.601
Hartheim 18.269
Sonnenstein 13.720
Hadamar 10.072

Witness Edmund Brandt was charged by "T4" with calculating the money that the state had saved due to these killings. He established that between January 1940 and August 1941 a total of 70,273 mental patients had been "disinfected" and thus costs of medical treatment in the amount of RM 3.50 per day, RM 88,543,980 per year and RM 885,439,800 assuming an average life span of ten years per patient had been saved, not including the cost of food in the amount of RM 0.56 per day = RM 8,969,116.80 for the period until 1 September 1941 = RM 141,775,573.80 for a period of ten years.

The source of these macabre figures is Kogon/Langbein/Rückerl et al, Nationalsozialistische Massentötungen durch Giftgas, pages 61/62.

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Deaths count

Post by gabriel pagliarani » 20 Aug 2002 18:08

I have never seen these figures before and I don't speak German. But the real answer is:
"Why the judge in Frankfurter Court had not charged of such figures the never persecuted authors of such a crime? THey were condamned or not? If they were not condamned why these figures are not legal evidencies of such a crime? Where is the fault?".
Hear me CLEARLY: I never told the crime was not, I asked why such criminals are out of any jail. Is it a stupid question? For me 70000 killings or only 2 have the same weight. But I could have another higher concept of justice.

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Re: Deaths count

Post by Roberto » 20 Aug 2002 18:46

gabriel pagliarani wrote:I have never seen these figures before and I don't speak German. But the real answer is:
"Why the judge in Frankfurter Court had not charged of such figures the never persecuted authors of such a crime? THey were condamned or not? If they were not condamned why these figures are not legal evidencies of such a crime? Where is the fault?".
Hear me CLEARLY: I never told the crime was not, I asked why such criminals are out of any jail. Is it a stupid question? For me 70000 killings or only 2 have the same weight. But I could have another higher concept of justice.
I suggest you go through the trial summaries under the icons after "Geisteskranke" on the site


Some of them have an English translation attached.

I am no less shocked than you are, however, at the leniency of German criminal justice in this respect. Most trials regarding the "euthanasia" complex ended with acquittals because the defendants' participation in the crimes could not be proven, and where there were guilty verdicts the sentences were often ridiculously low considering what these people had done.

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Re: Deaths count

Post by Hans » 20 Aug 2002 19:04

Hi Roberto!
Roberto wrote: I am no less shocked than you are, however, at the leniency of German criminal justice in this respect.
Interestingly, I've heard that Fritz Bauer, "the Jewish first head of the Zentrale Stelle der Landesjustizverwaltungen " whose actions regarding Eichmann "were reprehensible and contrary to his duty as a servant of the German Government", according to the esteemed poster Michael Mills, prepared a huge trial aginst the "Aktion T4" stuff. Unfortunatly, Bauer died before the investigations were completed, and there was no trial.

best regards!

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Post by michael mills » 27 Aug 2002 14:32

Witness Edmund Brandt was charged by "T4" with calculating the money that the state had saved due to these killings. He established that between January 1940 and August 1941 a total of 70,273 mental patients had been "disinfected" and thus costs of medical treatment in the amount of RM 3.50 per day, RM 88,543,980 per year and RM 885,439,800 assuming an average life span of ten years per patient had been saved, not including the cost of food in the amount of RM 0.56 per day = RM 8,969,116.80 for the period until 1 September 1941 = RM 141,775,573.80 for a period of ten years.
The above is precisely the reason for the "euthanasia" program - to save the cost of caring for patients in institutions who could not used for labour.

It is interesting that 70,000 was also the number of German mental patients who died during the First World War due to the severe rationing regime, which reserved food for the men at the front, and allowed civilians to die of malnutrition. It is possible that that figure provided a target for the German Government at the outset of the Second World War, a quota of mental patients to be "removed" so as to save food supplies.

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Post by Tarpon27 » 27 Aug 2002 17:19

Michael Mills wrote:
It is interesting that 70,000 was also the number of German mental patients who died during the First World War due to the severe rationing regime, which reserved food for the men at the front, and allowed civilians to die of malnutrition. It is possible that that figure provided a target for the German Government at the outset of the Second World War, a quota of mental patients to be "removed" so as to save food supplies.
Could it also be simply coincidence or even timing?

And correct me if I am wrong, but did not the action of T4 cause domestic political problems for Hitler, and the actions halted?

Does anyone have a figure for how many patients there were that would be classified as to extermination in total for the various institutions?

In other words, if 70,000 were killed, was there a significant number left alive because of political pressures to halt the actions, and had not this pressure existed, it was probable more would have died?



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Post by michael mills » 28 Aug 2002 14:31

In other words, if 70,000 were killed, was there a significant number left alive because of political pressures to halt the actions, and had not this pressure existed, it was probable more would have died?
There are two theories:

1. The adult euthanasia was stopped in August 1941 because of domestic opposition.

2. It came to an end in August 1941 when a pre-set target of 70,000 had been reached.

Support for the first theory is provided by the post-war statement of Dr Brand, who claimed that Hitler had suddenly issued an order for the cessation of euthanasia. But that claim might have been part of Brand's strategy of presenting himself and other euthanasia bureucrats as helpless servants of Hitler, who gave all the orders and determined when the action began and ended.

In favour of the second theory is the fact that the euthanasia was selective, not all-embracing. Prisoners were selected from the institutions for euthanasia according to a set of criteria, the most important being their inability to work. The selection was carried out by the institutions' adminsitrators themselves. If the aim had been to kill all mental patients, the most efficient way would have been to dispense with selection and progressively liquidate the institutions, sending all the inmates of a given institution to a euthanasia centre, rather than carrying out a selection among them.

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