Unusual Ships

[Uninen]

German Flak Ship Niobe. Bombed at Kotka by Russian aircraft but did shot
down 99 Russian Aircraft in the Attack. Lost 60 out of her crew of 300.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... ight=niobe

There is a good topic about the ship, but let me assure it didnt shot down that many a/c down during that attack, nor even during its whole carreer..

[Tiornu]

Here are some stats for the various "H" designs. The original version was actually laid down, but very little effort went into construction because of the start of the war.
H-39: 52,600 tons (standard), eight 406mm guns, 30 knots.
H-41: 62,992 tons, eight 420mm guns, 28.8 knots.
Then came the extravagant studies. Eventually these designs became so large that they could not have fit through some German waterways.
H-42: 83,268 tons, eight 480mm guns, 32.2 knots.
H-43: 103,346 tons, eight 480mm guns, 31 knots.
H-43: 122,047 tons, eight 508mm guns, 30.1 knots.
They all featured the same secondary and heavy AA weaponry (twelve 150mm and sixteen 105mm guns), and of course the unique submerged torpedoes.
In appearance, the design resembled a Bismarck, enlarged, but with two funnels for its diesel power plant.

[Kakita Harry]

Hallo Kakita. do you , by chance, know exactly were it was stranded? was it loaded? what cargo was carrying then?
were salvage (scrap) operations performed?
maybe there are still some remains of the ship to be seen, or a trace of the major equipemnt could be done (engines, etc)..
please comment

Best regards

Xavier
Instandsetzungtruppfuhrer

I will see what I can do for you this weekend, but please don't expect much!

[MAX_theHitMan]

Hello friends...
here I am again with trying to complete "THE LIST" of ALL equipment about the WW2 from the German side of things.

Pertaining to "Secret Kriegsmarine projects", I have a few on the list BUT I still need to add ALOT more for everyone to know.
Help me out if you can, with information ...and of course at least one good photo to see what it looked like.
If it did not exist, perhaps a drawing or a photoshop art-picture.

So here is a "short" list in the meantime to get you started on YOUR researches. I will help out in "ANYTHING" you might need or want

Cheers
MAX~theHitman
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Schlachtschiffe - Battleships
Scharnhorst Class - Schlachtschiff Scharnhorst
Schlachtschiff Gneisenau
Bismarck Class ---- Schlachtschiff Bismarck
Schlachtschiff Tirpitz
Super-Battleships Class H, J, K, L, M, N, H41, H42, H43, H44 - Never started/completed/launched


Panzerschiffe - Armored Ships (Pocket-Battleships)
Deutschland Class - Admiral Graf Spee
Admiral Scheer
Deutschland / Lützow
Pocket-Battleships Class D, E, P1, P2, P3, P4, P5, P6, P7, P8, P9, P10, P11, P12 - Never started / completed/ launched


Battle Cruisers
Class O, P, Q - Never started/completed/launched


Flugzeugträger - Aircraft Carriers
KMS Graf Zeppelin - Never completed
Flugzeugträger B “Seydlitz” - Never completed


Schwere Kreuzer - Heavy Cruisers
Schwere Kreuzer Admiral Hipper
Schwere Kreuzer Blücher
Schwere Kreuzer Prinz Eugen
Schwere Kreuzer Seydlitz
Schwere Kreuzer Lützow
Added after reclassification - Schwere Kreuzer Admiral Scheer
Schwere Kreuzer Lützow

Leicht Kreuzer - Light Cruisers
Emden Class - Leicht Kreuzer Emden
Konigsburg Class - Leicht Kreuzer Konigsberg
Leicht Kreuzer Karlsruhe
Leicht Kreuzer Koln
Leipzig Class - Leicht Kreuzer Leipzig
Leicht Kreuzer Nurnberg
Leipzig Class M, N, O, P, Q, R, KH1, KH2 - Never started/completed/launched


Hilfskreuzer - Auxiliary Cruisers
HSK - Handels-Stör-Kreuzer (Hilfskreuzer)
HSK 1 - Hilfskreuzer Orion
HSK 2 - Hilfskreuzer Atlantis
HSK 3 - Hilfskreuzer Widder
HSK 4 - Hilfskreuzer Thor
HSK 5 - Hilfskreuzer Pinguin
HSK 6 - Hilfskreuzer Stier
HSK 7 - Hilfskreuzer Komet
HSK 8 - Hilfskreuzer Kormoran
HSK 9 - Hilfskreuzer Michel
Hilfskreuzer Coronel
Hilfskreuzer Hansa


Zerstörer - Destroyers
Z1 Class/Type 1934 - Zerstörer 1 Lebrecht Maaß (Z1)
Zerstörer 2 Georg Thiele (Z2)
Zerstörer 3 Max Schultz (Z3)
Zerstörer 4 Richard Beitzen (Z4)
Z1 Class/Type 1934A - Zerstörer 5 Paul Jacobi (Z5)
Zerstörer 6 Theodor Riedel (Z6)
Zerstörer 7 Hermann Schoermann (Z7)
Zerstörer 8 Bruno Heinemann (Z8)
Zerstörer 9 Wolfgang Zenker (Z9)
Zerstörer 10 Hans Lody (Z10)
Zerstörer 11 Bernd von Arnim (Z11)
Zerstörer 12 Erich Giese (Z12)
Zerstörer 13 Erich Koellner (Z13)
Zerstörer 14 Friedrich Ihn (Z14)
Zerstörer 15 Erich Steinbrinck (Z15)
Zerstörer 16 Friedrich Eckoldt (Z16)

Z17 Class/Type 1936 - Zerstörer 17 Diether von Roeder (Z17)
Zerstörer 18 Hans Lüdemann (Z18)
Zerstörer 19 Hermann Künne (Z19)
Zerstörer 20 Karl Galster (Z20)
Zerstörer 21 Wilhelm Heidkamp (Z21)
Zerstörer 22 Anton Schmitt (Z22)

Z23 Class/Type 1936A - Zerstörer 23 (Z23)
Zerstörer 24 (Z24)
Zerstörer 25 (Z25)
Zerstörer 26 (Z26)
Zerstörer 27 (Z27)
Zerstörer 28 (Z28)
Zerstörer 29 (Z29)
Zerstörer 30 (Z30)

Z23 Class/Type 1936A (Mob) - Zerstörer 31 (Z31)
Zerstörer 32 (Z32)
Zerstörer 33 (Z33)
Zerstörer 34 (Z34)
Zerstörer 37 (Z37)
Zerstörer 38 (Z38)
Zerstörer 39 (Z39)
Zerstörer 40 (Z40)
Zerstörer 41 (Z41)
Zerstörer 42 (Z42)

Z23 Class/Type 1936B (Mob) -- Zerstörer 35 (Z35)
Zerstörer 36 (Z36)
Zerstörer 43 (Z43)
Zerstörer 44 (Z44)
Zerstörer 45 (Z45)

Z23 Class/Type 1936C - ( Planed destroyers with 12,8 cm AA guns )
Zerstörer 46 (Z46)
Zerstörer 47 (Z47)
Zerstörer 48 (Z48)
Zerstörer 49 (Z49)
Zerstörer 50 (Z50)

Never started/completed/launched -
Zerstörer 1938A/Ac ( Planed class of big ocean going destroyers )
Zerstörer 1938B ( Planed class of small costal destroyers )
Zerstörer 1942 ( Prototype of a diesel powered destroyer )

Z51 Class/Type 1942 - Zerstörer 51 (Z51)

Z52 Class/Type 1942A - Zerstörer 52 (Z52)
Zerstörer 53 (Z53)
Zerstörer 54 (Z54)
Zerstörer 55 (Z55)
Zerstörer 56 (Z56)

Never started/completed/launched - Zerstörer 1944 ( Projected diesel powered destroyer for Atlantic operations)

Zerstörer 1945 ( The last German destroyer designs )

Spähkreuzer ( Huge destroyers to be used as reconnaisance cruisers )

Special Projects: Ships and Boats
Flottentorpedoboot 1944 Class ( Planned torpedo ship )

Kleinstschnellboot Projekt (Project of a small fast attack boat )

Tragflügelboot Projekt ( Project of a small hydrofoil attack boat )

Turbojet Tragflügelboot Projekt ( Project of a small turbojet powered
hydrofoil attack boat )

Submersible Tragflügelboot Projekt ( Project for a submersible hydrofoil
attack boat )

Transport Hydrofoil VS 8 (Project of Hydrofoil troop transport)

“Manta” (Project of Trimaran Submersible Speedboat)

“Linse” (The Explosive Speed-Boats )

U-Boat Submarines

The Walter submarine turbine

Type Ia Unterseeboote - U25, U26

Type IIa Unterseeboote - U1-U6

Type IIb Unterseeboote - U7-U24, U120, U121

Type IIc Unterseeboote - U56-U59, U60-U63

Type IId Unterseeboote - U137-U152

Type III Unterseeboote

Type III A. Unterseeboote

Type IV Unterseeboote

Type V Unterseeboote

Type VI Unterseeboote

Type VII Unterseeboote - U27-U36

Type VIIb Unterseeboote - U45-U55, U73-U76, U83-U87, U99-U102

Type VIIc Unterseeboote - U69-U72, U77-U82, U88-U98, U132-U136, U201-U212,
U221-U232, U235-U291,U301-U316, U331-U394, U396-458, U465-U486, U551-U683,
U701-U722, U731-U768,
U771-U779, U821-U822, U825, U826, U901, U903-U907, U921-U928,
U951-U994,U1051-U1058, U1101, U1102, U1131, U1132, U1161, U1162,
U1191-U1210

Type VIIc/41 Unterseeboote - U292-U300, U317-U328, U827, U828, U929, U930,
U995, U997-U1010,U1013-U1025, U1063-U1065, U1103-U1110, U1163-U1172,
U1271-U1279, U1301-U1308

Type VIIc/42 Unterseeboote - NONE BUILT

Type VIId Unterseeboote - U213-U218

Type VIIe Unterseeboote

Type VIIf Unterseeboote - U1059-U1062

Type XVIIG Unterseeboote

Type XVIIk Unterseeboote

Type VIII Unterseeboote

Type IX Unterseeboote - U37-U44

Type IXb Unterseeboote - U64, U65, U103-U111, U122-U124

Type IXc Unterseeboote - U66-U68, U125-U131, U153-U166, U171-U176,
U501-U524

Type IXc/40 Unterseeboote - U167-U170, U183-U194, U525-U550, U801-U806,
U841-U846, U853-U858, U656-U870, U877-U881, U899, U1221-U1235

Type IXd Unterseeboote - U177-U182, U195-U200, U847-U852, U859-U864,
U871-U876

Type IXd1 Unterseeboote

Type IXd2 Unterseeboote

Type IXd/42 Unterseeboote

Type Xa Unterseeboote

Type Xb Unterseeboote - U116-U119, U219, U220, U233, U234

Type XI Unterseeboote
Type XII Unterseeboote

Type XIII Unterseeboote

Type XIV Unterseeboote - U459-U464, U487-U490

Type XV Unterseeboote

Type XVI Unterseeboote

Type XVIIb Unterseeboote

Type XVIIG Unterseeboote

Type XVIIk Unterseeboote

Type XVIII Unterseeboote - (Never built - early version of type XXI)

Type XIX Unterseeboote

Type XX Unterseeboote

Type XXI Unterseeboote “Elektroboote” ( The first real submarines - the so called "Electric U-Boats” )
U2501-U2531, U2533-U2546, U2548, U2551, U2552, U3001-U3041,
U3044, U3501-U3530

Type XXI B. / C. / D. / E. / T.

Type XXII Unterseeboote (small coastal sub) - U2321-U2371, U4701-U4707,
U4709-U4712

Type XXIII Unterseeboote ( Modern costal U-boats, built at the end of the war )

Type XXIV Unterseeboote

Type XXV Unterseeboote

Type XXVIa Unterseeboote (project)
Type XXVIb Unterseeboote (project)
Type XXVIc Unterseeboote (project)
Type XXVId Unterseeboote (project)
Type XXVIe Unterseeboote (project)
Type XXVIf Unterseeboote (project)
Type XXVI IW. Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXVII Unterseeboote

Type XXVIIb Unterseeboote

Type XXVIIf Unterseeboote

Type XXVIII Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXIXa Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXIXb Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXIXc Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXIXd Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXIXe Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXIXf Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXIXg Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXIXh Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXIXk1 Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXIXk2 Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXIXk3 Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXIXk4 Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXXa Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXXb Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXXI Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXXII Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXXIII Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXXIV Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXXV Unterseeboote (project)

Type XXXVI Unterseeboote (project)

Type UA Unterseeboote
Type UB Unterseeboote
Type UC1 Unterseeboote
Type UD1 Unterseeboote
Type UD2 Unterseeboote
Type UD3 Unterseeboote
Type UF1 Unterseeboote
Type UIT1 Unterseeboote
Type UIT7 Unterseeboote
Type UIT17 Unterseeboote
Type UIT21 Unterseeboote
Type UIT22 Unterseeboote
Type UIT23 Unterseeboote
Type UIT24 Unterseeboote
Type UIT25 Unterseeboote

Deschimag

Type V-300

Type Wa 201

Type Wk 202

Project K/Type 227 mini- submarine

Small and Midget Submarines
Unterseeboote V-60 Midget Sub

Unterseeboote V-80 Midget Sub

Grundhai Midget Sub

Type XXVII A “Hecht” ( Pike) Midget Sub

Type XXVII B “Seehund” ( Seal) Midget Sub

“Biber” ( Beaver) Midget Sub

“Biber - II” ( Beaver 2 ) Midget Sub

“Biber - III” ( Beaver 3 ) Midget Sub

“Molch” ( Newt or Salamander) Midget Sub

“Marder” Midget Sub

“Neger” ( Negro) Midget Sub

“Delphin” ( Dolphin) Midget Sub

“Seeteufel” ( Sea-Devil or Elefant) Midget Sub

“Schwertwal - I” Midget Sub

“Schwertwal - II” Midget Sub

“Hai” ( Shark) Midget Sub

Submarine Decoys
Kobold or Bold
Sieglinde
Siegmund
Aphrodite
Thetis

Submarine Anti-Sonar Coating
Alberich
Tarnmatte

The Schnorkel System

Rockets and Missiles Launched by Submarine
Project Ursel
V-1 Submarine Launched
V-2 “Prüfstand XII”Projekt (“Test Stand 12” Project)


Armed Merchant Ships - Marauders of the High-Seas
"Atlantis"
"Orion”
"Widder"
"Thor"
"Pinguin"
"Komet “
"Michel"
"Stier"
"Togo”
"Kormoran"

Torpedoes
T IIIa FAT (G7e) “Federapparat”( Spring Apparatus or Area Searching Torpedo
)
T IIIb (G7a) ( Made for the midget sub "Marder" )
T IIIc (G7a) ( Made for the midget sub "Seehund" )
T IIId (G7e) "Dackel " ( Made for special operations )
T IV (G7es) "Falke " ( First homing torpedo )
T V (G7es) "Zaunkönig 1 " ( Acoustic homing torpedo )
T XI "Zaunkönig I1 " ( Acoustic homing torpedo )
LuT 1 “Lagenunaglängiger Torpedo” (Position Independent Torpedo)
“Schildbutt” (A Torpedo Project)
“Steinwall” (A Torpedo Project)
M5 (A Torpedo Project)
Hecht (A Rocket-Propelled Torpedo)
G7es “Geier” (Vulture) Torpedo Project
G7es “Lerche” (Lark) Torpedo Project



The "other" list is much larger and detailed about "almost" all of the listed ships/subs/equipment

Help out if YOU can. I am here to help also 8)

Cheers
MAX~theHitman

[patrynius]

Hi
About German concepts of building carriers.
At first after Graf zeppelin laid down Hitler heard about idea battleship+carrier in one (smth like Ise at end of the war), great admirals don’t like it (still believe in guns) but Hitler order to study concept.
It was idea of large ship that can attack enemy convoys (in situations of enemy dominations on the sea) – so it was smth like “carrier raider”. That ship have to avoid enemy ships and their own aircrafts can help J . Artillery on the prow was good becasu planes destroy convoys and artillery was use only at the end.Aircraft can also be use in helping kriegsmarine “clasic raiders” on their attacks, and inally recon missions.
So first conceptions were Flugdeckkreuzer (10000t up to 40000t), 20 aircrafts (9 of them fighters) with cover own ship and can attacks enemy convoys (also recon)
Before any practical realization new conception was born:
Grossflugdeckkreuzer (typ AI, AII) (40000t) faster (34 knots) – that help running away (if big warships appear) 28 aircrafts (12 fighters), 4*203mm 16*150 and 16*105AA, also heavilly armoured (deck to 100mm), later number of planes increased to 38 (because slowly main “guns” became planes), but it wasn”t accept because another project appear
Atlantikflugzeugkreuzer (A III, A IV) – 70000t, main artillery 280mm, 50 aircrafts (still 12 fighters), heavier armoured – deck 150mm, side 250mm.. and it was end of all this paper creations of German carrier.
Still growing necessity about armour, artillery and esspecialy planes – create 70000 monster
So they back to concept small carrier that can make operation with clasic ship (help main fleet) – so conception of 12000-22000t carrier appear again (E IV, E V, E VI) – main gun 150mm, 10-25 planes. At the same time concept of special ship – that can carry flying boats (I’don”t know correct English word) Bv 138(from 7 to 10) – survace from 13000 to 36000t (I G, I E – main role for this last was recon for main fleet.
But German shipyards simply can”t build any of this projected ideas (better to said that ships), so there were conception of very small “planes ships” – smth like MAC – 3000t, 3 fighters (maybe 5 if rebuilt of Hansa).

Don” know if this help but I thing.. maybe J
Good to know YOU can help J
Best regards

[Karl234]

Here are some stats for the various "H" designs. The original version was actually laid down, but very little effort went into construction because of the start of the war.
H-39: 52,600 tons (standard), eight 406mm guns, 30 knots.
H-41: 62,992 tons, eight 420mm guns, 28.8 knots.
Then came the extravagant studies. Eventually these designs became so large that they could not have fit through some German waterways.
H-42: 83,268 tons, eight 480mm guns, 32.2 knots.
H-43: 103,346 tons, eight 480mm guns, 31 knots.
H-43: 122,047 tons, eight 508mm guns, 30.1 knots.
They all featured the same secondary and heavy AA weaponry (twelve 150mm and sixteen 105mm guns), and of course the unique submerged torpedoes.
In appearance, the design resembled a Bismarck, enlarged, but with two funnels for its diesel power plant.

Why Kriegsmarine made such paranoia-plans in that late period of the war?

[Tiornu]

Carrier B was not the Seydlitz conversion, but Graf Zeppelin's unnamed sistership.
Hybrid designs were considered by most of the large navies during the 1930's and 40's due in part to the treaty situation. These were almost universally awful designs.
Anyone wanting a complete list of German vessels during the war should consult DIE DEUTSCHEN KRIEGSSCHIFFE 1815-1945 by Erich Gröner. For projects that never get very far, you can also try the various books by Whitley. His capital ship book also covers the aircraft carriers.

[Tiornu]

"Why Kriegsmarine made such paranoia-plans in that late period of the war?"
The question is not so much why the Germans made the plans as why anyone cares about them.
Designers are always doing paper studies as exercises and investigations into practical applications of the lessons they've learned. This is always going on. For example, you may have heard about British plans for a Dido cruiser with seven or more turrets. This is not because the RN actually wanted such things but because the designers wanted to understand the implications of the design specifications. The "H's" became bigger as the designers asked themselves questions like, What would we need to do to create a ship with protection against a 2000kg bomb? Or, What tonnage would be needed for a ship carrying 50cm guns? Those are just examples; I don't know offhand exactly what they were looking into, but this is the general idea of how the process works. As I said, this stuff goes in all the time. I guess the "H" revisions have caught on because they were so absurdly large. You'll find other weird things in other navies. I remember seeing the Spring Style for an aircraft carrier built on an Iowa class hull. It has a hand-written note on the side saying (allow me to paraphrase), "When hell freezes over."
Does everyone remember the Tillman battleships?

[Karl234]

"Why Kriegsmarine made such paranoia-plans in that late period of the war?"

Does everyone remember the Tillman battleships?

What is the Tillman battleships?

[Tiornu]

The Tillman battleships--oh, this is a fun story!
Benjamin R. Tillman was a powerful United States Senator during the 1910's. He sat on the Senate Naval Affairs Committee, and he had concerns about the sorts of ships Congress might authorize. He therefore requested a series of studies laying out the absolute maximum battleship designs that USN would find operationally practical (i.e., those that could fit through the Panama Canal). These designs reached as high as 90,000 tons (almost three times as large as the battleships of the time). The main batteries were extremely powerful, as you can imagine; the most outrageous were fifteen 18in guns in triple turrets or twenty-four 16in guns in sextuple turrets! Friedman's book US Battleships has information on these along with some Spring Style drawings. Here's a quote: "These Spring Styles were drawn in December 1916 in response to Senator B R Tillman's demand for a concrete limit and represent alternative emphases. They were not conceived as approaches to practical designs. The figures for a 'maximum battleship' were published, however, and as late as 1940 the House Naval Affairs Committee complained that US battleships were far from what they could be, that is, far from the Tillman ship."

[patrynius]

Hi
Yes - there were plans (hybrid ships) in USRR (Gibs&Cocks) and Japan(G7-?) as I remember.

Also there is theory- just the theory that there were one U-boot XI "Die Schwarz Ritter" - I would say "private ship"(owned by organisation sofindus) sunk by K25.

About Carrier B as Tiornu said- it was another "Graf" type.
Also projected rebuilt passangers: Europa, Potsdam, Gneisenau(Japanes rebuilt finally Scharnorst-as "Shinyo") and captured Fr. light cruiser "De grasse" (which was in built) - but never started.

About Light cruiser, I have infos that M-R ships were new project (not Leipzig, for example heavier than Leipzig), and nwe type (1941 ordered) - 3 ships


Flotten-Torpedoboote
"T22": T22-T36

II:T37-T51(never built)
I
II:T52-T60(never built)

"T61":T61-T72(never built)

Captured40-41:
ZH1(-ho)l
Hermes(-gr)
ZF2(never)(-fr)
TA7-8(never)(-norw)
TA1-6(never)(-fr)

captured43(all ex IT)
TA14-15
TA31-32
TA43-44
TA33-34(no)
TA23-36


torpedoboote:
"Mowe": Albatros, Falke, Greif, Kondor, Mowe, Seeadler, Tiger (sunk in 1931),

II: (1928-29) Iltis, Jaguar, Leopard, Luchs, Wolf

T1: T1-T21

Captured:4 norwegian (lepopard, Lowe, Panther, Tiger)

Captured 1943, ex IT: TA9-TA13, TA16-TA18, TA20-22, TA24, TA27-30, TA35-42. TA45, TA48 and49


School torpedoobote "G7": T107-108, T110-111


Geleitboote (escort ships)
"F" : F1-F10

Captured
SG1-SG4(fr)
SG9(fr)
SG20(IT)
SG14-17,SG21-23,SG25(IT)


Artillerieschulschiffe (school Artillery ships)
Bremse
Brummer

And later captured ships:
Brummer(ex norw)
Barbara(ex Belg)


U-boots Jager
Ex IT Gabbiano: UJ201-202, UJ205, UJ208, UJ2221-2223, UJ2226-2228, UJ6081-6085


Kanonenboote
K1-4(diffrent ships, hol)


Kriegs-uJager:
KUJ1-16, KUJ21-23, KUJ25, and never built KUJ17-18, KUJ26-42
MZ: MZ1

captured difrrent: ex ITU J2101, UJ2103,UJ2106,UJ2109,
ex GB UJ2110,
ex Fr SG26, UJ6060, SG27


Minescuchboote
"M old": M61,M72,M75, M84-85, M89, M98, M102, M104, M110-111, M117, M122, M132 M145, M157 (they all later change numbers (M71toM572, M98 to M598, M145 to M545.....)
Acheron, Alders, Arkona, Brommy, Delphin, Fuchs, Gazelle, Havel, Hille, Jagd, Jungingen, Nautilus, Nettelbeck, Otto Braun, Pelikan, Raule, Stortebeker, Sundewall, Von der Groeben, Von der lippe

"M new":M1-M39, M81-85, M101-104, M131-133, M151-156, M201-206, M251-256, M261-267, M271-279, M291-294, M301-307, M321-330, M341-348, M361-377, M381-389, M401-408, M411-416, M421-428, M431-438, M441-446, M451-456, M459-471, M475-576, M483-384, M486,M489,M495-496
missing numbers projected, never built,
M601-609, M801-806
missing numbers never built (up to M1050)

soo. now we can talk

[PPoS]

Wow.. cool stuff..

One question, wasn't the Seydlitz a aircraft carrier CLASS and not a name on a project AC? I believe that Graf Zeppelin was of Seydlitz class..

[patrynius]

Hi
"Graf Zeppelin" and Flugzeugträger "B" were another class as I know (BTW "B" were supposed to be named "Peter Strasser", not confirmed)
Seydlitz was cruiser that was planned to laid as carrier (project "Weser 1")
Regards

[PPoS]

OK, thanks. It's just something I think I've read some time long ago

[Edward L. Hsiao]

There were German merchants ships,trawlers,sailing schooners that were converted to German Q-ships for anti-submarine warfare during WWII. Hidden torpedoe tubes and guns. Much like the Q-ships of the Royal navy of WWI. I believe that the Kriegsmarine Q-ships were also used to hunt down partisan boats off the coast of Yugoslavia and elsewhere on the world seas.


Edward L. Hsiao