Camp Guards Killed by Inmates

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
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Helly Angel
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Post by Helly Angel » 04 Oct 2004 20:12

DELETED BY THE AUTHOR.

David Thompson
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Post by David Thompson » 04 Oct 2004 21:50

A running exchange on moderation now has a thread of its own:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=60978

Fugazi
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Post by Fugazi » 05 Oct 2004 06:06

Apologies, perhaps my "urban myth" message was a little blunt. Maybe the term isn't common enough to be familiar outside the native English-speaking community?

I just meant that I've seen this story in a couple of different versions, and it struck me as sounding over-dramatised, possibly a tale that's grown in the telling. I was just wondering if anyone on the forum has seen any report that looked at official documentation to see if the SS recorded the event (sure, they probably wouldn't want to record something like that, but if someone was killed presumably they'd have to put his death down to something). Helly Angel, I wasn't yanking your chain, I was just curious to know if the story was substantiated.

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Georg_S
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Post by Georg_S » 05 Oct 2004 13:45

Nibelung wrote:Can anyone provide me with some info about the SS men killed in Dachau, as far as I know they were the least guilty for the things that happened there... I've read sometnihg about it on WSSOB, but can't rememer the unit. :oops:

I was also reading a book about Treblinka some time ago and there was a huge revolt descirbed which afterwards led to the destruction of the camp. The book was a novel, but did it have any truth in it?

best,
Nibelung
If you are refering to Hean Marie Steiner´s book about Treblinka is that
he has admitted that he made some fiction part of it. But in general the story is right, but a lot of the personal "happenings/thoughts" are fiction.

About Biela it´s correct.

Then about Dachau units you are going to touch a hot potatoe there =)
That have been discussed several months ago on this forum search for "Dachau guards".
The only one (for me personally) whó have been identified is the SS-Ustuf
Heinrich Wicker, and he was the one who surrendered the camp to the US.
Sometime after he had done that he was lynched either of US troops or former
Inmates. Noone knows. He is still listed as "MIA" by the Deutsches Rotes Kreuz,
some claims that his fate is solved, which I also think it´s but the DRK
need witness which can testify who happened and that the photo of him
dead is really him, I have been in contact with them several about this but so
far I haven´t made any progress.

Best reg.

Georg

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Miha Grcar
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Post by Miha Grcar » 05 Oct 2004 14:29

If you are refering to Hean Marie Steiner´s book about Treblinka is that
he has admitted that he made some fiction part of it. But in general the story is right, but a lot of the personal "happenings/thoughts" are fiction.
I allready got two different authors of Treblinka, so I'll have to go to the library and search for the author there; I'll let you know when I know...

I saw quite some good (resolution) photos of Dachau guards shot on spot (with brains comming from the stalhelm)...and I would just like to know the unit they bellonged, since I'm not so sure if they were Totenkopfverbände.

Thanks for the warning :wink:

best,
Nibelung

yoricks
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Post by yoricks » 22 Oct 2006 23:09

I read of several killings in Ebensee and mauthausen after liberation. Specifically i remember a sadistic Kapo nicknamed Gypsy who was stuffed alive into the crematorium oven.

But almost all stories i read were about kapo inmates not the SS personnel who usually got away before the liberation.

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Post by Potsdamerplatz » 28 Oct 2006 22:39

In 1979, Gustav Wagner, the deputy Commandant of Sobibor concentration camp, was discovered living in Brazil. He had been tracked down by Israeli journalists with the help of former sobibor inmate Szlomo Szmajzner.

West Germany, Austria, Poland and Israel all requested his extradition to face charges for his role at Sobibor where he personally executed prisoners.

All the requests were refused by the Brazilian Supreme Court and Wagner was released from temporary custody - free to carry on with his life.

A few months later in 1980, Gustav Wagner was found hanged at a remote farm. The death was ruled as suicide but stories have persisted that he was killed in retribution by former sobibor inmate Szlomo Szmajzner.

Shortly before Wagner's death, Szmajzner approached his former SS-commandant

"How are you, Gustl?" Szmajzner asked.

For a moment Wagner regarded him with bafflement, then he recognized him: "Yes, yes, I remember you well. Surely I picked you out of the transport and saved your life."

"That's correct" said Szmajzner, "but you didn't save the lives of my sister, my brothers, my mother and my father."

When asked later whether he was responsible for the death of Wagner, he refused to confirm or deny it - he merely smiled.

Did Wagner "commit suicide" out of remorse? Not a chance. Only a few months previously he had given a television interview to the BBC in which he said:

"I had no feelings.... It just became another job. In the evening we never discussed our work, but just drank and played cards".

I have read several books on the Sobibor escape and they have both referred to Szmajzner having a hand in Wagner's death, as does the movie "Escape From Sobibor" when describing the fate of the major characters at the end of the movie.

Not conclusive proof but I leave you to reach your own conclusions.

Best regards,

David Thompson
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Post by David Thompson » 29 Oct 2006 00:56

For readers interested in Wagner's death, see "Regarding Sobibor's SS-Unterscharfuehrer Wagner" at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=26063

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Trench_Raider
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Re:

Post by Trench_Raider » 01 Nov 2006 04:52

Manstein wrote:Other guards killed during the Sobibor Revolt:

SS-Rottenführer Max Bree
SS-Oberscharführer Siegfried Graetschus
SS-Scharführer Fritz Konrad
SS-Scharführer Walter Nowak
SS-Scharführer Thomas Steffel
SS-Unterscharführer Erwin Stengelin
SS-Scharführer Josef Vallasta

Another guard who was killed...

SS-Rottenführer Max Biala (stabbed to death by an inmate at Treblinka in 1942, considered a martyr afterwards)
That's interesting.
All those guys were NCOs. Why would that be the case?

"Trench Raider"

ansata1976
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Re: Camp Guards Killed by Inmates

Post by ansata1976 » 10 Dec 2013 12:22

Hans Blahberger
16.12.1910 in Landl/Steiermark
SS-Rottenführer
killed by prisoners 13.06.1942

Rudolf Erler
31.08.1904 in Alt Wernsdorf
SS-Unterscharführer
Killed by prisoners 07.10.1944

Josef Purke
28.02.1903 in Onstaletz
SS-Unterscharführer
Killed by prisoners 07.10.1944

Willi Freese
30.09.1921 in Lindenhoff/Demmin
SS-Unterscharführer
Killed by prisoners 07.10.1944

history1
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Re: Camp Guards Killed by Inmates

Post by history1 » 10 Dec 2013 19:25

ansata1976 wrote:Hans Blahberger
16.12.1910 in Landl/Steiermark
SS-Rottenführer
killed by prisoners 13.06.1942

Rudolf Erler
31.08.1904 in Alt Wernsdorf
SS-Unterscharführer
Killed by prisoners 07.10.1944

Josef Purke
28.02.1903 in Onstaletz
SS-Unterscharführer
Killed by prisoners 07.10.1944

Willi Freese
30.09.1921 in Lindenhoff/Demmin
SS-Unterscharführer
Killed by prisoners 07.10.1944
Source???

StefanSiverud
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Re:

Post by StefanSiverud » 10 Dec 2013 23:51

marcWolf wrote:
Georg wrote:
marcWolf wrote:SS Schillinger in Auschwitz by a woman, an entrance gas chamber

Regards, MarcWolf
Do you mean the Doctor Schillinger, the one who testified at KL Dachau??

//Georg
No, Seargent Schillinger.

Marcwolf
One version of the story is recounted in Adolf Burger's "The Devil's Workshop" (part 1, chapter 19 - Paraguay), but the name of the woman is not included. Burger does not claim to have been a witness. Here she is, with a short version of the story (and some of the different details of some versions): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franceska_Mann

Roches
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Post by Roches » 11 Dec 2013 04:37

Trench_Raider wrote: That's interesting.
All those guys were NCOs. Why would that be the case?

"Trench Raider"
The SS at Sobibor would have been NCOs or officers, with a total number of no more than about 30. Presumably no officers were killed because the prisoners did not have access to them. The lower ranking guards were primarily Hiwis from the camp at Trawniki.

ansata1976
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Re: Camp Guards Killed by Inmates

Post by ansata1976 » 11 Dec 2013 14:47

source: book: Auschwitz: Täter,Gehilfen,Opfer from Ernst Klee
history1 wrote:
ansata1976 wrote:Hans Blahberger
16.12.1910 in Landl/Steiermark
SS-Rottenführer
killed by prisoners 13.06.1942

Rudolf Erler
31.08.1904 in Alt Wernsdorf
SS-Unterscharführer
Killed by prisoners 07.10.1944

Josef Purke
28.02.1903 in Onstaletz
SS-Unterscharführer
Killed by prisoners 07.10.1944

Willi Freese
30.09.1921 in Lindenhoff/Demmin
SS-Unterscharführer
Killed by prisoners 07.10.1944
Source???

history1
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Re: Camp Guards Killed by Inmates

Post by history1 » 11 Dec 2013 15:29

Thanks, another book which I´ve to buy ;-)

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