Sino-japanese war diorama (question)

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Genscher Russia
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Sino-japanese war diorama (question)

Post by Genscher Russia » 27 May 2006 08:43

Hallo, everybody!
I need your help. I want to make diorama devoted to the Sino-Japanese war. The figures will be 200 div with german equipment and SdKfz 223. Time period is 1937-38 (the beginning)
And I want ask a few questions:
In which battles chinese sdkfz 221-223 took part? (I think The battle for Shanghai (13th August to 9th November 1937) or the Battle for Nanking (4th to 13th Dec 1937). ?
Were there various Buddah statues in or around these cities? maybe anyone has photos of the statues?

Best regards

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asiaticus
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re: Sino-japanese war diorama

Post by asiaticus » 28 May 2006 00:28

I need your help. I want to make diorama devoted to the Sino-Japanese war. The figures will be 200 div with german equipment and SdKfz 223. Time period is 1937-38 (the beginning)
If you are looking at the 1937-38 period the Chinese only had three tank battalions. The 200th Division was not organized until 1938, and it was equipped with Soviet tank, Armored cars, trucks, MGs and artillery.
In which battles chinese sdkfz 221-223 took part? (I think The battle for Shanghai (13th August to 9th November 1937) or the Battle for Nanking (4th to 13th Dec 1937). ?
See 3rd Battalion below.
------------

China had first been sold a variety of tanks, 36 FT17's in 1932, 12 Vickers Carden Lloyd MG carriers, 10 PZ1a, 30 Sdkfz 221 and 222, 20 CV33 tankettes, 20 Vickers 6 ton E tanks, 33 Vickers VCL light tanks, a few Renault ZB light tanks. However 50 of these tanks were lost in the battles around Shanghai in 1937. By 1939 only a few were in operation, however spares were short and their value was limited.

Here is what I have on the 3 origianal battalions:

All three battalions were under the command of Xu Ting-yao:

1st Armoured Battalion (headquarters in Shanghai)
29? x Vickers-Carden-Lloyd Amphibious Tank Model 1931 and 3? Vickers 6 ton E
totalling 32 tanks

1st Battalion formed in 1935.

2nd Armoured Battalion (headquarters in Shanghai)
17 Vickers 6 ton E tanks
8 VCL machine gun carriers
4 VCL Light Tanks
4 Renault ZB light tanks (which I suspect is the export designation of the MG-armed Renault UE carriersold to China) 2
totalling 32 tanks

2nd Battalion formed in 1935, destroyed in the battle for Shanghai 13th August to 9th November 1937.

3rd Armoured Battalion
15 x PzKpfw I/A light tanks (from Germany)
20 x Fiat CV33 tankettes (from Italy)
18 x Sdkfz 221 and 222 armd cars (from Germany)
total 53 Vehicles

3rd Battalion formed in 1935; destroyed in the Battle of Nanking (4th to 13th Dec 1937).

The above battalions were resupplied with new supplies from the Soviets which arrived in 1938 and gouped under the 1st Armoured Regiment of the 200th Division. The exception seems to have been the Italian CV-33s which were with the 200th Division even into the Burma Campaign when it had become a motorized infantry division.

Here is my understanding of its organization and equipment:

200th Division (Mechanized)
-1st Tank Regiment
-- 4 BT-5 light tanks
-- 70 T-26 light tanks
-- 18 CV-33 light tanks
- 1st Armoured Vehicle Regiment
-- 50 BA-6 and FAI Armoured Cars
-1st Motor Infantry Regiment
-- Soviet trucks and HMG's
-1st Artillery Regiment
-- 12 122mm Howitzers
-- 12 75mm field guns
-- 12 45mm AAA guns


The 200th Division (Mechanized) was used in the battle of Lanfeng in mid 1938, just two of its tank battalions were used apparently. It was in reserve in the 1st Battle of Changsha and almost destroyed in the Kwangzi campaign during the Battle of Kun-lun-guan (Kunlun Pass) in 1939-40 and was reformed as a motorised infantry division.

The 200th Division (Motorised) then went on to fight in the 1st Burma Campaign (7th March to 11th May 1942) under the Chinese Expeditionary Force.

200th Division (Motorised)
-- 598thRegiment
-- 599th Regiment
-- 600th Regiment


The armoured regiment still existed but as a separate unit but was in Burma with the 200th 'Division under 5th Corps command. I have been told that only the CV33 tanks were sent to Burma because only they were light enough to cross the bridges. It might also be that the Soviet equipment was lost, broke down or was too unreliable from lack of spares as I have not heard of them being used after the Kwangsi campaign and the Russians cut off aid about this time.

-- 1st Armoured Regiment - Hu Hsien-chun
--- 18 Cv-33 light tanks

Genscher Russia
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Post by Genscher Russia » 28 May 2006 09:31

Thahk you for reply. Now I see. Much new informaion.
I have a few more questions.
1. Was the 3rd Armored Batallion independent unit?
2. Could the crew of SdKfz 223 or infantry of the 3rd batallion wear german helmets and equipment during the Battle for Nanking?

Best regards,
Wladimir

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Peter H
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Post by Peter H » 28 May 2006 13:18


Genscher Russia
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Post by Genscher Russia » 29 May 2006 17:57

Thank you for advice!

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asiaticus
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Post by asiaticus » 30 May 2006 17:46

Thahk you for reply. Now I see. Much new informaion.
I have a few more questions.
1. Was the 3rd Armored Batallion independent unit?
2. Could the crew of SdKfz 223 or infantry of the 3rd batallion wear german helmets and equipment during the Battle for Nanking?

Best regards,
Wladimir
3rd Battalion was an independant unit at the time of the battle of Nanking.

As to crew appearance see those photos above.

Genscher Russia
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Post by Genscher Russia » 31 May 2006 02:27

Thank you!
The situation is clear to me now!

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USMC03
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Sino-Soviet Diorama

Post by USMC03 » 21 Jun 2006 22:51

Genscher Russia

Please post pics..Id be more than interested to see your work! Very interesting subject..different...

King Maker
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Post by King Maker » 24 Jun 2006 11:55

Did the Chinese soldier carry the unit flags into battle like Japanese?

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Post by Gerrie_Coetzee » 29 Jun 2006 16:19

King Maker wrote:Did the Chinese soldier carry the unit flags into battle like Japanese?
I think it was pretty rare but this picture shows that the Chinese did in their defense of Shanghai as the Chinese in this battle were at least a match for the Japanese.
Image

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SdKfz 223 is ready

Post by Genscher Russia » 30 Aug 2006 12:33

Hallo!
My SdKfz 223 of Nationalist China is ready. Here is the link to photos:
http://www.dishmodels.ru/gshow.htm?p=1378

My thanks for help in searching infos and photos.

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