Aur.K Snow ploughing/ploughing Company

Discussions on the Winter War and Continuation War, the wars between Finland and the USSR.
Hosted by Juha Tompuri
User avatar
Harri
Member
Posts: 4214
Joined: 24 Jun 2002 11:46
Location: Suomi - Finland

Aur.K Snow ploughing/ploughing Company

Post by Harri » 28 May 2006 17:38

Splitted from the http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=101995
/Juha T




Road Maintenance and Road Constructing Companies were the main units used in snow ploughing duties on rear areas of army corps during winters. AFAIK Ploughing Company was exclusively for "breaking the way open for motor vehicles in any conditions" together with construction units. It was really a heavy machine engineer work company for breaking ground or bulldoze all larger obstacles and clear the way for the road constucting what for there were Road Constructing Companies and also Fortification Construction Battalions.

User avatar
Juha Tompuri
Forum Staff
Posts: 11490
Joined: 11 Sep 2002 20:02
Location: Mylsä

Post by Juha Tompuri » 28 May 2006 19:52

Harri wrote:In Finnish a verb "aurata" means both ploughing a field and clearing of snow.
Actually no.
When ploughing field, the correct verb is "kyntää" not "aurata"

Actually the noun "aura" ( =plough/plow ) is a bit "un-professional" general name of quite different kind of equipment.
There exists at least the following type of auras:
- Farming poughs (several types, some mentioned here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plough )
- Cable laying ploughs
- Snow ploughs
- "Ditch making" ploughs
- Forrest ploughs (used before sowing/planting trees)
- Railroad ploughs ( to break railroads )
- Mine ploughs
- The one seen around Zygmunt :)
I think the "heavy ploughs" they had were for tearing stumps and large rocks away.
I have never seen or heard of such ploughs.
That of course doesn't mean that they did not exist. Do you have any additional info about them?
I know something about clearing woodland into fields, and the tree stumps and large rocks are quite difficult to get rid off.
Making roads throug forrest terrain by ploughing doesn't sound realistic to me.
It was also used for keeping roads clear of snow during winters. During summers company was used both in maintaining and road constructing duties. There were a total of five such companies.
without the bolded part, I agree.
Road Maintenance and Road Constructing Companies were the main units used in snow ploughing duties on rear areas of army corps during winters. AFAIK Ploughing Company was exclusively for "breaking the way open for motor vehicles in any conditions" together with construction units. It was really a heavy machine engineer work company for breaking ground or bulldoze all larger obstacles and clear the way for the road constucting what for there were Road Constructing Companies and also Fortification Construction Battalions.
Road Maintenance, Road Construction and (Snow) Ploughing Companies all took care of the road maintenance, the Aur.K being heaviest equipped for snow ploughing: able to plough new roads (through snow).
During summertimes the Construction Company was best equipped for building new roads and the Maintenance Company had the best equipment for the maintenance work.

Regards, Juha

User avatar
Harri
Member
Posts: 4214
Joined: 24 Jun 2002 11:46
Location: Suomi - Finland

Post by Harri » 29 May 2006 15:21

Juha Tompuri wrote:
Harri wrote:In Finnish a verb "aurata" means both ploughing a field and clearing of snow.
Actually no. When ploughing field, the correct verb is "kyntää" not "aurata"
Fields are not ploughed [aurata]?
Juha Tompuri wrote:Actually the noun "aura" ( =plough/plow ) is a bit "un-professional" general name of quite different kind of equipment
That is true. My dictionary although has only two items: plough and snow plough. More wise people (or horses, because they have biggers heads) can solve if the translation is correct or not. :lol:
Juha Tompuri wrote:
Harri wrote:I think the "heavy ploughs" they had were for tearing stumps and large rocks away.
I have never seen or heard of such ploughs. That of course doesn't mean that they did not exist. Do you have any additional info about them? I know something about clearing woodland into fields, and the tree stumps and large rocks are quite difficult to get rid off. Making roads throug forrest terrain by ploughing doesn't sound realistic to me.
I don't know anything else. I think roads and fields were cleared in a same way. Anyway that's what for these units were.

Ploughing Company was a heavy clearing [raivaus] unit. I think the heavy ploughs they used were most likely towed by the four heavy caterpillars they had. There are four of both of them. Of course caterpillars were also used "in a normal way". I have not seen anywhere that the heavy ploughs they had would have been ordinary snow ploughs or something similar (but it is possible).
Juha Tompuri wrote:
Harri wrote:It was also used for keeping roads clear of snow during winters. During summers company was used both in maintaining and road constructing duties. There were a total of five such companies.
without the bolded part, I agree
These mentioned duties were not the primary, but secondary tasks of the company. See my first post. There is a direct quote taken from E-E Saarinen's books of Finnish engineer troops. Primary task of a Ploughing Company was opening new routes both during summers and winters.
Juha Tompuri wrote:
Harri wrote:Road Maintenance and Road Constructing Companies were the main units used in snow ploughing duties on rear areas of army corps during winters. AFAIK Ploughing Company was exclusively for "breaking the way open for motor vehicles in any conditions" together with construction units. It was really a heavy machine engineer work company for breaking ground or bulldoze all larger obstacles and clear the way for the road constucting what for there were Road Constructing Companies and also Fortification Construction Battalions.
Road Maintenance, Road Construction and (Snow) Ploughing Companies all took care of the road maintenance, the Aur.K being heaviest equipped for snow ploughing: able to plough new roads (through snow).
Exactly. It has to be taken into account that during winters not all roads were cleared of snow. If for some reason that kind of road had to be cleared Ploughing Company did the job.
Juha Tompuri wrote:During summertimes the Construction Company was best equipped for building new roads and the Maintenance Company had the best equipment for the maintenance work.
That is correct. The main difference between these units was that the Road Maintenance Company had four road scrapers and six tractors while the Road Constructing Company had only four caterpillars (probably of the smaller size than Ploughing Company) and two more trucks. Otherwise these companies were almost identical. There were sixteen road maintenance and only two road construction companies.

AFAIK during the war was discussed that these two different company types should have been replaced with one company type suitable both for maintenance and constructing. Anyway like I said earlier Fortification Construction Battalions and Companies constructed and repaired most of the roads despite of their name.

User avatar
Juha Tompuri
Forum Staff
Posts: 11490
Joined: 11 Sep 2002 20:02
Location: Mylsä

Post by Juha Tompuri » 29 May 2006 23:45

Harri wrote: Fields are not ploughed [aurata]?
No, at least here they are ploughed [kyntää] by kyntöaura.
I wonder how for example at Suur-Savo?

Harri wrote: I think roads and fields were cleared in a same way. Anyway that's what for these units were.
Yes, snowy roads and snowy fields could be cleared the same way.

Harri wrote:Ploughing Company was a heavy clearing [raivaus] unit.
Harri wrote:I think the heavy ploughs they used were most likely towed by the four heavy caterpillars they had. There are four of both of them. Of course caterpillars were also used "in a normal way". I have not seen anywhere that the heavy ploughs they had would have been ordinary snow ploughs or something similar (but it is possible).
According to the Suomen Sota 1941-1945 part 10 it is highly possible:
Traktoriaurauskaluston aukimurtamisauraa (paino 3800kg) työnsi 7 tonnin traktori. Aurausnopeus aukimurrossa oli parhaassa tapauksessa 8-9 km tunnissa.
My translation: The "heavy plough" (weight 3800kg) of tractor equipped (snow)ploughing units (?) was pushed by a 7-ton tractor (caterpillar type, JT) The speed at (snow)ploughing, when opening the roads was 8-9 km/h under ideal conditions

Harri wrote: See my first post. There is a direct quote taken from E-E Saarinen's books of Finnish engineer troops. Primary task of a Ploughing Company was opening new routes both during summers and winters.
At first post Harri wrote:Ploughing Company (Aurauskomppania, Aur.K) was for ploughing supply roads earlier passable only for horses as well as opening new supply roads during winters. Ploughing speed was 8 to 9 km/h at best.
E-E Saarinen wrote: Aurauskomppania avasi raskaalla aukimurtamiskalustolla talvella hevosajoneuvoilla liikennöityjä maanteitä autoliikenteelle kelpaaviksi ja samoin uusia autoteitä kesäteiden pohjalle tai autoilla ajokelpoiseen maastoon
My translation:
During wintertime the Aur.K, with the "heavy ploughs" plought open the horse driven vehicle used (main)roads to motor vehicle use and also (plought open, JT) new motor vehicle usable roads at the basis of the summer roads or to motor vehicle passable terrain.

Actually there is no mention of summer time ploughing, nor mentions towards...
Harri wrote:breaking ground or bulldoze all larger obstacles
...of that Coy by E-E S.

Juha Tompuri wrote:During summertimes the Construction Company was best equipped for building new roads and the Maintenance Company had the best equipment for the maintenance work.
Harri wrote: That is correct. The main difference between these units was that the Road Maintenance Company had four road scrapers and six tractors while the Road Constructing Company had only four caterpillars (probably of the smaller size than Ploughing Company) and two more trucks. Otherwise these companies were almost identical. There were sixteen road maintenance and only two road construction companies.
Actually until June -42 the Construction Coy had also 2 road scrapers and 2 road rollers.
After June-42 their caterpillars were modified as raivaustraktori ("clearing tractor") (to be able to deal with the tree stumps and large rocks)

Regards, Juha

User avatar
Juha Hujanen
Financial supporter
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Mar 2002 11:32
Location: Suur-Savo,Finland

Post by Juha Hujanen » 30 May 2006 15:29

I wonder how for example at Suur-Savo?
Just like in there[kyntää],however some fields are so rocky that [aurata] might be better term :lol:

Cheers/Juha

User avatar
Harri
Member
Posts: 4214
Joined: 24 Jun 2002 11:46
Location: Suomi - Finland

Post by Harri » 31 May 2006 20:04

Juha (#2), I think this would need a thread of its own?
Juha Tompuri wrote:
Harri wrote: I think roads and fields were cleared in a same way. Anyway that's what for these units were.
Yes, snowy roads and snowy fields could be cleared the same way.
Well, actually I meant clearing roads during the winters and fields during the summers.
Juha Tompuri wrote:
Harri wrote:Ploughing Company was a heavy clearing [raivaus] unit.
Harri wrote:I think the heavy ploughs they used were most likely towed by the four heavy caterpillars they had. There are four of both of them. Of course caterpillars were also used "in a normal way". I have not seen anywhere that the heavy ploughs they had would have been ordinary snow ploughs or something similar (but it is possible).
According to the Suomen Sota 1941-1945 part 10 it is highly possible:
...
My translation: The "heavy plough" (weight 3800kg) of tractor equipped (snow)ploughing units (?) was pushed by a 7-ton tractor (caterpillar type, JT) The speed at (snow)ploughing, when opening the roads was 8-9 km/h under ideal conditions
Unlike I thought it is clearly said there that the plough was pushed. This I think indicates these heavy ploughs were used only during winters. There are also towed ploughs. Finnish engineer work units didn't have shovel loaders or power shovels (nice names in English :lol: ) which are used nowadays.

The question is were the heavy ploughs just snow ploughs or something else. I think they were not ordinary snow ploughs. I have seen photos of very odd "ploughing machines" used in northern Finland but I don't know if these were German or Finnish ones.

2nd and 4th Ploughing Companies were also subordinated to Germans. 4th Ploughing Company was subordinated to German AOK Lapland in winter 1942 initially at Petsamo and in May at Kiestinki between February and May 1942. Germans had problems in keeping their supply roads open due to extremely snowy conditions. Its another Ploughing Platoon led by Lt. V. Korkeila was ploughing Petsamo airfield. Also Platoon of 3rd Ploughing Company was subordinated to Germans between 14.10.1942 and 9.6.1943 and was located at Petsamo as well.
Harri wrote:See my first post. There is a direct quote taken from E-E Saarinen's books of Finnish engineer troops. Primary task of a Ploughing Company was opening new routes both during summers and winters.
Instead of "new routes" there should have been "new routes passable for motor vehicles". This includes also existing roads not ploughed due to strategic reasons and also improving of lower quality roads.
Juha Tompuri wrote:
At first post Harri wrote:Ploughing Company (Aurauskomppania, Aur.K) was for ploughing supply roads earlier passable only for horses as well as opening new supply roads during winters. Ploughing speed was 8 to 9 km/h at best.
E-E Saarinen wrote:My translation:
During wintertime the Aur.K, with the "heavy ploughs" plought open the horse driven vehicle used (main)roads to motor vehicle use and also (plought open, JT) new motor vehicle usable roads at the basis of the summer roads or to motor vehicle passable terrain.
Actually there is no mention of summer time ploughing, nor mentions towards...
Harri wrote:breaking ground or bulldoze all larger obstacles
...of that Coy by E-E S.
After reading the quote of E-E Saarinen once again I see now that Saarinen talks only about winter duties (unlike I have earlier understood it). But were the Ploughing Companies disbanded during summers then? I don't think so. My point has all the time been that Ploughing Company was not an "ordinary snow ploughing unit" for only clearing the existing roads. Without doubt they did that too a lot (much more than tasks they were originally inteded for).

Companies must have had also other duties of which bulldozing is the most likely (if the heavy ploughs were only used during winters). Caterpillars of the Finnish engineer troops were the strongest heavy equipment which could be used for removing obstacles like large rocks and it is undoubtful that they wouldn't have been used in that role too. At that time completely new roads were mainly constructed during summers.
Juha Tompuri wrote:
Juha Tompuri wrote:During summertimes the Construction Company was best equipped for building new roads and the Maintenance Company had the best equipment for the maintenance work.
Harri wrote:That is correct. The main difference between these units was that the Road Maintenance Company had four road scrapers and six tractors while the Road Constructing Company had only four caterpillars (probably of the smaller size than Ploughing Company) and two more trucks. Otherwise these companies were almost identical. There were sixteen road maintenance and only two road construction companies.
Actually until June -42 the Construction Coy had also 2 road scrapers and 2 road rollers. After June-42 their caterpillars were modified as raivaustraktori ("clearing tractor") (to be able to deal with the tree stumps and large rocks)
What is the source of your (last) information? E-E Saarinen?

The role of Road Constructing Company was probably changed in June 1942. They still constructed new roads but also improved existing roads which were for example widened and made better suitable for the heavy motor vehicle traffic. Road scrapers and rollers were and are used in road constructing. Road scrapers can be used also in maintenance and snow clearing duties.

These construction and maintenance units had mostly professional personnel (they were formed of the Finnish Road Administration personnel) while fortification units had overaged or disabled reservists and labour conscripts.

User avatar
Juha Tompuri
Forum Staff
Posts: 11490
Joined: 11 Sep 2002 20:02
Location: Mylsä

Post by Juha Tompuri » 31 May 2006 22:03

Harri wrote:The question is were the heavy ploughs just snow ploughs or something else. I think they were not ordinary snow ploughs. I have seen photos of very odd "ploughing machines" used in northern Finland but I don't know if these were German or Finnish ones.
From what I've understood the "heavy ploughs" were of "point plough" (kärkiaura) type. Not ordinary as the 3800kg weight indicates.

Harri wrote:After reading the quote of E-E Saarinen once again I see now that Saarinen talks only about winter duties (unlike I have earlier understood it). But were the Ploughing Companies disbanded during summers then? I don't think so. My point has all the time been that Ploughing Company was not an "ordinary snow ploughing unit" for only clearing the existing roads. Without doubt they did that too a lot (much more than tasks they were originally inteded for).

Companies must have had also other duties of which bulldozing is the most likely (if the heavy ploughs were only used during winters). Caterpillars of the Finnish engineer troops were the strongest heavy equipment which could be used for removing obstacles like large rocks and it is undoubtful that they wouldn't have been used in that role too. At that time completely new roads were mainly constructed during summers.
Sure the Aur.K tractors and trucks were not idle during the summers, maybe they were used to tear up and transpotrt away the tree stumps and large rocks ?

Harri wrote:What is the source of your (last) information? E-E Saarinen?
-Suomen Sota 1941-1945 part 10, pages 224 and 226
-Jatkosodan Historia 6, page 392

Regards, Juha

User avatar
Harri
Member
Posts: 4214
Joined: 24 Jun 2002 11:46
Location: Suomi - Finland

Post by Harri » 01 Jun 2006 10:28

Juha Tompuri wrote:
Harri wrote:The question is were the heavy ploughs just snow ploughs or something else. I think they were not ordinary snow ploughs. I have seen photos of very odd "ploughing machines" used in northern Finland but I don't know if these were German or Finnish ones.
From what I've understood the "heavy ploughs" were of "point plough" (kärkiaura) type. Not ordinary as the 3800kg weight indicates.
If so they were really big ones! Sounds more like wall breakers to me... Perhaps someone can dig out a photo of such plough. Personally I have had an opinion that they wouldn't have been "ordinary looking point ploughs" but something totally else. 3800 kg is a weight of three or four cars which I think is a a lot for such a plough.
Juha Tompuri wrote:
Harri wrote:After reading the quote of E-E Saarinen once again I see now that Saarinen talks only about winter duties (unlike I have earlier understood it). But were the Ploughing Companies disbanded during summers then? I don't think so. My point has all the time been that Ploughing Company was not an "ordinary snow ploughing unit" for only clearing the existing roads. Without doubt they did that too a lot (much more than tasks they were originally inteded for).
Companies must have had also other duties of which bulldozing is the most likely (if the heavy ploughs were only used during winters). Caterpillars of the Finnish engineer troops were the strongest heavy equipment which could be used for removing obstacles like large rocks and it is undoubtful that they wouldn't have been used in that role too. At that time completely new roads were mainly constructed during summers.
Sure the Aur.K tractors and trucks were not idle during the summers, maybe they were used to tear up and transpotrt away the tree stumps and large rocks ?
That's what I think too (without better information available).
Juha Tompuri wrote:
Harri wrote:What is the source of your (last) information? E-E Saarinen?
-Suomen Sota 1941-1945 part 10, pages 224 and 226
-Jatkosodan Historia 6, page 392
Thanks Juha!

User avatar
Juha Tompuri
Forum Staff
Posts: 11490
Joined: 11 Sep 2002 20:02
Location: Mylsä

Post by Juha Tompuri » 01 Jun 2006 21:20

Harri wrote:Thanks Juha!
You're welcome, information not shared is lost :)

Regards, Juha

Return to “Winter War & Continuation War”