Tannu Tuva

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Animal
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Tannu Tuva

Post by Animal » 29 Jul 2006 11:44

What was Tannu Tuva's contribution, if any, to the Allied war effort? I know no Tuvan units took an active part in the war, but did they have an army?

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BIGpanzer
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Post by BIGpanzer » 29 Jul 2006 15:01

Interesting question! I know tnat Tannu Tuva (Tuvinian Arat People's Republic since 1926, population 70.000 men only) was the puppet ally of USSR during WWII (the same as nearby Mongolia), and there is a legend that Germany didn't reply on Tuvinian declaration of war 22.06.1941 (Declaration of Xth Great Khural of Tuvinian Republic to support USSR by all means) because Hitler couldn't find that country on the map :lol: Also it is very interesting that Tuvinian republic don't cancel that declaration of war until now (de jure) and always had/have the right to declare the war independently from Russia.
http://www.midcoast.com/~martucci/neva/ ... -tuv26.gif (flag of Tuva, 1926-1930)
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/r/ru-ty-33.gif (flag of Tuva, 1933-1941)
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/r/ru-ty-41.gif (flag of Tuva, 1941-1943)
http://www.fotuva.org/travel/images/t-map.gif (Tuva on the map of Asia)

I know no Tuvan units took an active part in the war, but did they have an army

Not correct
The national revolutionary army of Tuva consisted of infantry regiment and cavalry squadron in 1930s, the last one (squadron of 206 volunteer-cavalrymen, commander - captain Kechir-ool) was sent as the military Tuvinian help to USSR 09.1943 and took place in the hard battles for West Ukraine (61 Tuvinian cavalrymen were lost in 1943-1944). That squadron was the part of Soviet 31st guard cavalry regiment (as 4th squadron) and German soldiers were afraid of "wild asiatics" (who were the excellent snipers and cavalrymen without a sensation of fear, Genghis Khan was their national hero and Tuvinians never retreated, last survived soldier ofter exploded himself by grenade). Glorious Tuvinian cavalry squadron was sent back to Tuva 03.1944 because of high losses. Also Tuvinians sent some infantrymen from their single infantry regiment and even 11 volunteers for tank units 05.1943 (which were trained in USSR as Tuvinians didn't have any motor vehicles in their small army of Mongol medieval-style organization).

Also Tuvinian civilians since 04.1942 sent food, horses (50.000), nowt (1.700.000), warm clothes (15.000 fur coats and felt boots) to USSR, collected money for full equipment of 3 Soviet air fighter squadrons and 1 tank battalion - that was extremelly hard for very poor illiterate nomadic population of Tuva but people gave all properties they had to support Russians (389 railway cars of cargos to the amount of 65.000.000 roubles were sent from Tuva to Russia in 1942-1944).
Tuvinian woodworking factory produced skis (52.000), Tuvinian machinery-repair plant produced different cavalry equipment and horse vehicles for Soviet troops.
Since 11.1941 Soviet citizens from Tuva were drafted into Soviet Army by Siberian military district of USSR. They participated in many combats, including Battles for Leningrad and Stalingrad.

Stalin wanted to create a ring of satellites in Inner Asia, also Stalin worried that Chiang might even extend his influence to Tuva, so he incorporated it first. In fact, Soviet warplanes and Mongolian Army were fighting the Chinese Army when the latter tried to suppress the East Turkestan uprising.
11.10.1944 Tannu Tuva joint with USSR (this is Tuva Republic as the part of Russia at the moment) and several thousands of Tuvinians were drafted immediately into the Soviet Army (participated in last combats against Germany and Japan in 1945). Many of Tuvinians were awarded with Soviet decorations for fantastic bravery, one tankman (Homushku Churguj-ool from 25th separate tank regiment where some Tuvinians served) became the Hero of USSR even when he defended the position with only his tank during 2 hours, made ram attack when shells came to end and survived. Also 72 Tuvinians and 33 Soviets were awarded with the Tuvinian Order of the Republic and 90 Tuvinians (69 from Tuvinian cavalry squadron) - with the Tuvinian Medal for Combat Merit.
http://text.uuu.ru/images/orders/Market ... 155944.jpg (Tuvinian Order of the Republic, 1935)

That's all I could find in my notes (as I am collecting the info about participation of small nations in WWII). But I hope this is more than enough for you :wink:
Regards, BP

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Post by Animal » 30 Jul 2006 04:17

Pretty interesting. Thanks! I don't suppose there's any pics available of the Tuvinians or information about their uniforms, insignia, awards, although I imagine they must have followed the Soviet pattern. I'm also assuming that their weapons were supplied by Russia.

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Post by Potsdamerplatz » 30 Jul 2006 11:02

I'm also assuming that their weapons were supplied by Russia.


Probably. Tannu Tuva enjoyed good relations with Russia even before World War II began.

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Post by BIGpanzer » 30 Jul 2006 15:06

Tannu Tuva was under Russian protectorship after overthrow of Manchuria yoke in 1912, since 1914 - Uryankhaisky land as Russian potectorate. After national revolution during the Russian civil war the country became people's republic (since 14.08.1921).

As for the weapons - I guess that Tuvinians used old-Russian and Chinese rifles in 1920s-1930s, but it was quite common to meet matchlock/flint guns of XVIII-XIX c.c. and even bows there.

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Post by Windward » 30 Jul 2006 16:40

Tannu Tuva (Chinese and Mogolian call it Tannu Ulianghai) subjected to some nearby Mongolian rulers after Mongolian Empire in China (Yuan Dynasty) collapsed in late 14th century, and those Mongolian khans kept their sovereign over Tannu for around 300 years. In 1655, the Mongolian rulers in Outer Mongolia subjected to Manchu emperor, then Tannu was absorbed into Manchu/Chinese empire. Russia agreed that it's Chinese territory in the Chinese-Russian border treaty of 1727.

Russian immigrants (most of them gold diggers) began to sneak into Tannu Tuva since the late 18th century. In 1911, which year the Manchu empire collapsed, the Russian population in Tannu Tuva was over 5000, nearly 1/10 of the population. In July 1916, Cossack troop occupied Tuva, but they left in late 1917. Soviet was established among Russian immigrants in March 1918, then white Russian reoccupied Tuva in July.

Chinese army arrived at Tuva in August 1918, they drove out the Cossack troop along with Mongolian and Tuvinian horsemen. In 1920, around 500 Soviet troopers tried to occupy Tuva but failed, in the next year, baron Ungern-Sternberg occupied this area, killed all Chinese officials and traders. Months later, the Red Army defeated Ungern-Sternberg and occupied Tuva, now the Chinese garrison and influence disappeared, so they didn't leave, built "Soviet regime" in this place and declared independence on Dec 12 1921.

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Post by Windward » 30 Jul 2006 16:49

BIGpanzer wrote:Also Tuvinian civilians since 04.1942 sent food, horses (50.000), nowt (1.700.000), warm clothes (15.000 fur coats and felt boots) to USSR, collected money for full equipment of 3 Soviet air fighter squadrons and 1 tank battalion - that was extremelly hard for very poor illiterate nomadic population of Tuva but people gave all properties they had to support Russians (389 railway cars of cargos to the amount of 65.000.000 roubles were sent from Tuva to Russia in 1942-1944).
Tuvinian woodworking factory produced skis (52.000), Tuvinian machinery-repair plant produced different cavalry equipment and horse vehicles for Soviet troops.


Infact it's 5,000 boots and 10,000 fur coats, and they also give Russia 187 tons of meat, 73 tons of fish, 54 tons of butter, 18 tons of sausage.

poor people. They were squeezed.

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Post by BIGpanzer » 30 Jul 2006 17:53

declared independence on Dec 12 1921.

Officially earlier - 14.08.1921

poor people. They were squeezed.

By whom? Inner rules? Manchurian empire collapsed in 1911 and Tuva had good relations with USSR. Almost all Tuvinian population tried to help Soviets as much as possible, giving the last horses or cows they had during WWII.

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Post by Windward » 30 Jul 2006 18:35

BIGpanzer wrote:By whom? Inner rules?

By Russian.

Manchurian empire collapsed in 1911 and Tuva had good relations with USSR. Almost all Tuvinian population tried to help Soviets as much as possible, giving the last horses or cows they had during WWII

In some cases, horses and money were not donated by people, but were confiscated by local soviet.

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Post by BIGpanzer » 30 Jul 2006 22:55

I guess that economy of Tuva were poor of many reasons starting with nomadic style of life and a few amount of popiulation and finishing with Manchurian/Chinese yoke for many years (Tuva was ruled by Chinese Chamber of External Relations). Tuvinian districts (noyons) asked Russian government to establish a protectorate over Tuva several times after revolution in China 1912-1913. Russian emperor Nikolai II signed the corresponding decree 17.04.1914 and Tuva was included into Russian Yenisei province (Irkutsk governor-general ruled Tuva)


Tuvinians were not squeezed by Russians before Russian revolution 1917, Soviets watched on religious persons carefully but didn't repressed many people. Tuvinians really liked the relations with powerful USSR and joint with Russians voluntary. The national movement for support Soviets in 1941-1943 was extremelly popular in Tuva - volunteers asked to send them to front, civilians made large donations. But after WWII the situation became worser and several hunderds of temples (Buddhistic and lamasery) were destroyed in Tuva by Soviets as well as men of culture and religion were arrested often.

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Post by Windward » 31 Jul 2006 05:37

I have some interesting books about Tannu Tuva which were wrote by soviet historians. Before 1911, Tuvinian pay fur (mink, otter, lynx, sable, leopard, wolf, fox) as tax. The tax was 3000 "Ureg" which equal to 9000 mink furs. They also need to pay tax to Mongolian princes and lama temples. Currency in Tuva were mink fur and brick tea, and mouse fur as fractional currency.

According to Imperial Russian documents, Tuva "people" want to become a nation under protect of Russia after 1912, but it's not exactly true. One adjuration was sent to Russian officers in Irkutsk, wrote by Gombu Tadzhi, by then governor-general of Tannu Tuva. He wrote this to prevent his subjects defect to outer Mongolia. Don't forget that common Tuva people in 1912, like Arab people before T.E.Lawrence, have no conception of modern nation or country. They only know families and tribes. Infact for the religious reason, a lot of Tuva people prefer their land become part of independent Mongolia.

regards

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Post by BIGpanzer » 31 Jul 2006 19:27

Interesting info!
I've read that Tuvinians and Mongols almost completely supported Russian White Forces (famous Asian division of baron Roman Ungern-Sternberg, for example) during the Russian civil war 1918-1922 as bolshevists overthrew the Russian emperor who helped Mongolian economy a lot (development of railroads and enterprises). Soviet historians tried to suppress this fact later.
I've read also several articles/books by Tuvinian writer Tschinag Galsan who is living in Germany for many years.

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Re:

Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 10 May 2014 16:31

BIGpanzer wrote:(Tuvinian Order of the Republic, 1935)
Республиканын ордени-биле (tuvinian). Order Republic was established in 1940. Previously Order TAR (Tuva Arat Republic).

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