Flak Panther (?) - rare pic

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brano
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Flak Panther (?) - rare pic

Post by brano » 04 Oct 2006 16:33

http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/45889

Field modification on flakpanzer or it´s only flak transport ???

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 04 Oct 2006 16:49

As far as I can see, it's just a normal Bergepanther with a 2 cm gun.

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brano
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Post by brano » 04 Oct 2006 17:04

2cm ? It´s bigger flak, not ? 3,7cm ?

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AikinutNY
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Yes, a Bergpanther Ausf A/G

Post by AikinutNY » 04 Oct 2006 17:39

Look at the Bergepanther Ausf A/G in the Saumar (SP) museum. Some of the Bergepanthers had a 20mm gun mounted for self defense. It would have been used for ground targets mostly, since there is very limited room to shoot at a steep angle to go after a plane. I think the mount was dropped from the later models.

The tank unit would send along other tanks to provide protection and assistance so the 20 mm on the Bergepanther was not needed very much and the fact that the crew would busy recovering another tank gave them little chance to get to it and use it in time.

The 653rd Scwhere Panzerjäger Abteilung mounted some quad 20 mm AA guns on some of their captured T-34s and atleast one of their early Bergepanther Ausf Ds. They even made their own armored protection for the guns. There was one AA gun mounted on a Panther without any protection and it could have been a 37 mm, but don't hold my feet to the fire over that one. It could have been a 20mm quad AA just as well.

The 653rd also mounted, either bolted or welded, a Panzer IV turret to one of the early Bergepanthers. I don't know how effective it was, but it was better than a Bergepanther without any gun.

The early Bergepanthers were little more than a standard Panther with the turret removed and a wooden hatch mounted on the turret ring. With the reduced weight the Bergepanther had the extra power to tow other Panthers and Tigers, far better than the three or four FAMOs needed to move the same vehicle. The later Bergepanther Ausf A/G, had a winch mounted in side and a ground spade on the back, so it could pull disabled or stuck vehicles from mud for repair.

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DBURLEY
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2CM ON A PATHER

Post by DBURLEY » 04 Oct 2006 17:43

Check out the last photo. It shows a detachable box magazine feeding on the left. This magazine held 10 rounds of 20mm ammo. The 3.7 cm weapons were fed via a stripper clip that only held 5 rounds. The 3.7 cm rounds were exposed in the clip. :D

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AikinutNY
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last photo

Post by AikinutNY » 04 Oct 2006 17:56

The last photo does not show the gun mounted to anything, the first is a 20 mm on a Bergepanther.

The middle one, which did not show up when I first viewed the post is interesting. but not clear enough to see a 37mm barrel. The shape does look like a 37mm shield mounted on the Panther chassis. It could have been removed from a flak panzer IV or could be a trailered 37 mm sitting on the Panther chassis. It would be nice to know where the picture was taken. Maybe one of the 653rd's conversions?

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brano
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Post by brano » 04 Oct 2006 18:07

Ouu..sorry....

1.pic in link is only for illustration, dont some tank in 2.pic. My question is for Kveten1945[1].8.jpg. :)

Photo is from Jindøichùv Hradec, Czech republic( 7.5.1945 ).

Phil Bishop
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Post by Phil Bishop » 04 Oct 2006 22:43

It is not a normal bergepanzer with 2cm cannon I agree.....looks like a 37mm Flak 43 to me, it's just too big to be a 20mm gun...look at' it's size in relation to the figures in the foreground and background...and the shield is wrong for a 20mm gun. Nice find.

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Post by TadPortly » 05 Oct 2006 11:08

Definitely not a standard bergepanther. In fact it looks like an Ausf D which has had its turret removed rather than a bergepanther as the usual modifications/fittings associated with a bergepanther are missing. I also agree that it looks more like a 37mm gun than 20mm. Nice find!

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3.7cm FlaK 37

Post by Taesung » 05 Oct 2006 19:00

It's definitely not a 20mm FlaK or KwK... To me, it looks like 3.7cm FlaK 37 (not 43)
mounted on a Bergepanther D or early A chassis. The reason I suspect it to
be an ex-Bergepanther is the missing hatches for the driver and radio operator.
This area is a canvas cover with braces covering up the open crew compartment
just like Bergepanthers.

Taesung

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brano
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Re: Flak Panther (?) - rare pic

Post by brano » 31 Dec 2006 19:17

brano wrote:http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/45889

Field modification on flakpanzer or it´s only flak transport ???


New pics. On the link...

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Sander D
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Post by Sander D » 01 Jan 2007 17:41

Hi brano

Verry nice picture ,thanks for the update.


Sander

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Vegemite/jordan
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Post by Vegemite/jordan » 02 Jan 2007 07:17

Hey all. I can definatly say that the shield is of a typical 37mm type. Id say the gun is either a german 37mmAA gun or could possibly be a captured Bofors gun mounted with the german gun shield.

The top picture though is a bergepanther with a 20mm gun. It wasnt really used for anything, more of a protection thing if when recovering a vehicle they came under fire theyd use it for some covering fire to get the crew in the vehicle and then get outa there I spose.

My 2 cents worth :oops:

Jordan

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Re: Flak Panther (?) - rare pic

Post by rebelcowboy77 » 10 Mar 2009 23:54

Having served in a tank battalion in Europe and assisted in tank recovery, I know that it is very typical SOP to have one recovery tank involved in the recovery process and one recovery tank set up as overwatch. The US tank manuals, maneuvers, and policies very much emulate the German tank SOP. Your overwatch tank would be a heavy dedicated to overwatch. The German engineer battalion, after being thrown in the frying pan once, would have upgraded half of their bergs to heavies. The engineers are always called forward when the @!#$# is still hitting the fan to pull the tanker out of the muck while the rest of the tank company is bugging out. Having that heavy there to lay down suppressive fire is must when equipment is precious. I'm not surprised that they threw a 37mm, quad 20mm, or a panzer IV turret on the vehicle cause it takes twice as long to recover a tank when under fire with no support. Modern tank warfare, this includes WWII, has made the front line a very fluid concept and more of a zone instead of a line. A battalion commander would have to be stupid and worthy of a court martial, for sending his engineers and mechanics forward without heavy fire power unless desperate. Tank designers always think of the engineers and mechanics as rear echelon troops and so their vehicles are under armed from the get-go. Your opponent is always trying to cut your supply lines and the engineers and mechanics spend a good portion of their time traversing those lines; contact is inevitable. I willing to bet that modification was the norm on every bergpanther out there.

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jtrowbridge5
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Re: Flak Panther (?) - rare pic

Post by jtrowbridge5 » 12 Mar 2009 16:48

Photo of Saumurs Bergpanther with gun
Dennis

http://jtrowbridge5.smugmug.com/gallery ... wt2G/Large

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