Flak Panther (?) - rare pic

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
Post Reply
User avatar
brano
Member
Posts: 493
Joined: 25 Apr 2004, 16:54
Location: Slovakia

Flak Panther (?) - rare pic

#1

Post by brano » 04 Oct 2006, 17:33

http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/45889

Field modification on flakpanzer or it´s only flak transport ???

User avatar
Christian Ankerstjerne
Forum Staff
Posts: 14028
Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 15:07
Location: Denmark
Contact:

#2

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 04 Oct 2006, 17:49

As far as I can see, it's just a normal Bergepanther with a 2 cm gun.


User avatar
brano
Member
Posts: 493
Joined: 25 Apr 2004, 16:54
Location: Slovakia

#3

Post by brano » 04 Oct 2006, 18:04

2cm ? It´s bigger flak, not ? 3,7cm ?

User avatar
AikinutNY
Member
Posts: 210
Joined: 12 Dec 2004, 20:05
Location: Three Mile Bay, New York, USA

Yes, a Bergpanther Ausf A/G

#4

Post by AikinutNY » 04 Oct 2006, 18:39

Look at the Bergepanther Ausf A/G in the Saumar (SP) museum. Some of the Bergepanthers had a 20mm gun mounted for self defense. It would have been used for ground targets mostly, since there is very limited room to shoot at a steep angle to go after a plane. I think the mount was dropped from the later models.

The tank unit would send along other tanks to provide protection and assistance so the 20 mm on the Bergepanther was not needed very much and the fact that the crew would busy recovering another tank gave them little chance to get to it and use it in time.

The 653rd Scwhere Panzerjäger Abteilung mounted some quad 20 mm AA guns on some of their captured T-34s and atleast one of their early Bergepanther Ausf Ds. They even made their own armored protection for the guns. There was one AA gun mounted on a Panther without any protection and it could have been a 37 mm, but don't hold my feet to the fire over that one. It could have been a 20mm quad AA just as well.

The 653rd also mounted, either bolted or welded, a Panzer IV turret to one of the early Bergepanthers. I don't know how effective it was, but it was better than a Bergepanther without any gun.

The early Bergepanthers were little more than a standard Panther with the turret removed and a wooden hatch mounted on the turret ring. With the reduced weight the Bergepanther had the extra power to tow other Panthers and Tigers, far better than the three or four FAMOs needed to move the same vehicle. The later Bergepanther Ausf A/G, had a winch mounted in side and a ground spade on the back, so it could pull disabled or stuck vehicles from mud for repair.

User avatar
DBURLEY
Member
Posts: 16
Joined: 05 May 2006, 18:33
Location: Louisiana, USA

2CM ON A PATHER

#5

Post by DBURLEY » 04 Oct 2006, 18:43

Check out the last photo. It shows a detachable box magazine feeding on the left. This magazine held 10 rounds of 20mm ammo. The 3.7 cm weapons were fed via a stripper clip that only held 5 rounds. The 3.7 cm rounds were exposed in the clip. :D

User avatar
AikinutNY
Member
Posts: 210
Joined: 12 Dec 2004, 20:05
Location: Three Mile Bay, New York, USA

last photo

#6

Post by AikinutNY » 04 Oct 2006, 18:56

The last photo does not show the gun mounted to anything, the first is a 20 mm on a Bergepanther.

The middle one, which did not show up when I first viewed the post is interesting. but not clear enough to see a 37mm barrel. The shape does look like a 37mm shield mounted on the Panther chassis. It could have been removed from a flak panzer IV or could be a trailered 37 mm sitting on the Panther chassis. It would be nice to know where the picture was taken. Maybe one of the 653rd's conversions?

User avatar
brano
Member
Posts: 493
Joined: 25 Apr 2004, 16:54
Location: Slovakia

#7

Post by brano » 04 Oct 2006, 19:07

Ouu..sorry....

1.pic in link is only for illustration, dont some tank in 2.pic. My question is for Kveten1945[1].8.jpg. :)

Photo is from Jindøichùv Hradec, Czech republic( 7.5.1945 ).

Phil Bishop
Member
Posts: 276
Joined: 23 Aug 2005, 22:41
Location: UK

#8

Post by Phil Bishop » 04 Oct 2006, 23:43

It is not a normal bergepanzer with 2cm cannon I agree.....looks like a 37mm Flak 43 to me, it's just too big to be a 20mm gun...look at' it's size in relation to the figures in the foreground and background...and the shield is wrong for a 20mm gun. Nice find.

TadPortly
Member
Posts: 403
Joined: 15 Feb 2006, 15:38
Location: England

#9

Post by TadPortly » 05 Oct 2006, 12:08

Definitely not a standard bergepanther. In fact it looks like an Ausf D which has had its turret removed rather than a bergepanther as the usual modifications/fittings associated with a bergepanther are missing. I also agree that it looks more like a 37mm gun than 20mm. Nice find!

Taesung
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 Jul 2005, 17:53
Location: NJ, USA

3.7cm FlaK 37

#10

Post by Taesung » 05 Oct 2006, 20:00

It's definitely not a 20mm FlaK or KwK... To me, it looks like 3.7cm FlaK 37 (not 43)
mounted on a Bergepanther D or early A chassis. The reason I suspect it to
be an ex-Bergepanther is the missing hatches for the driver and radio operator.
This area is a canvas cover with braces covering up the open crew compartment
just like Bergepanthers.

Taesung

User avatar
brano
Member
Posts: 493
Joined: 25 Apr 2004, 16:54
Location: Slovakia

Re: Flak Panther (?) - rare pic

#11

Post by brano » 31 Dec 2006, 20:17

brano wrote:http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/45889

Field modification on flakpanzer or it´s only flak transport ???
New pics. On the link...

User avatar
Sander D
Member
Posts: 1600
Joined: 14 Apr 2003, 16:09
Location: The Netherlands

#12

Post by Sander D » 01 Jan 2007, 18:41

Hi brano

Verry nice picture ,thanks for the update.


Sander

User avatar
Vegemite/jordan
Member
Posts: 142
Joined: 01 Sep 2005, 07:34
Location: New Zealand

#13

Post by Vegemite/jordan » 02 Jan 2007, 08:17

Hey all. I can definatly say that the shield is of a typical 37mm type. Id say the gun is either a german 37mmAA gun or could possibly be a captured Bofors gun mounted with the german gun shield.

The top picture though is a bergepanther with a 20mm gun. It wasnt really used for anything, more of a protection thing if when recovering a vehicle they came under fire theyd use it for some covering fire to get the crew in the vehicle and then get outa there I spose.

My 2 cents worth :oops:

Jordan

rebelcowboy77
New member
Posts: 1
Joined: 11 Mar 2009, 00:18

Re: Flak Panther (?) - rare pic

#14

Post by rebelcowboy77 » 11 Mar 2009, 00:54

Having served in a tank battalion in Europe and assisted in tank recovery, I know that it is very typical SOP to have one recovery tank involved in the recovery process and one recovery tank set up as overwatch. The US tank manuals, maneuvers, and policies very much emulate the German tank SOP. Your overwatch tank would be a heavy dedicated to overwatch. The German engineer battalion, after being thrown in the frying pan once, would have upgraded half of their bergs to heavies. The engineers are always called forward when the @!#$# is still hitting the fan to pull the tanker out of the muck while the rest of the tank company is bugging out. Having that heavy there to lay down suppressive fire is must when equipment is precious. I'm not surprised that they threw a 37mm, quad 20mm, or a panzer IV turret on the vehicle cause it takes twice as long to recover a tank when under fire with no support. Modern tank warfare, this includes WWII, has made the front line a very fluid concept and more of a zone instead of a line. A battalion commander would have to be stupid and worthy of a court martial, for sending his engineers and mechanics forward without heavy fire power unless desperate. Tank designers always think of the engineers and mechanics as rear echelon troops and so their vehicles are under armed from the get-go. Your opponent is always trying to cut your supply lines and the engineers and mechanics spend a good portion of their time traversing those lines; contact is inevitable. I willing to bet that modification was the norm on every bergpanther out there.

User avatar
jtrowbridge5
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 07 Nov 2004, 01:54
Location: bristol england

Re: Flak Panther (?) - rare pic

#15

Post by jtrowbridge5 » 12 Mar 2009, 17:48

Photo of Saumurs Bergpanther with gun
Dennis

http://jtrowbridge5.smugmug.com/gallery ... wt2G/Large

Post Reply

Return to “The Ron Klages Panzer & other vehicles Section”