Turkish WW1 Artillery

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
adeline
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Turkish WW1 Artillery

Post by adeline » 11 Oct 2006 04:53

Is there a complete and accurate listing of Turkish guns for the period 1914-18 ?

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The Edge
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Post by The Edge » 11 Oct 2006 08:52

You're asking a lot! :roll: There were so many models, German & British commercial ones pre-1912, later (1915-18) various German & Austrian models, both standard issue and surplus commercial ones... not to mention captured ones. Lack of data after four international and one civil war in 1912-1922 period... Good luck with this topic! :)

Some other sites to visit:
viewtopic.php?t=109440
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... +artillery

adolpheit
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Re: TURKISH WW1 Artillery.

Post by adolpheit » 11 Oct 2006 17:53

adeline wrote:Is there a complete and accurate listing of Turkish guns for the period 1914-18 ?


This is the list I made during my studies (from various sources). I'm not sure it is complete. I think that Turkish members can correct it easily.

a] bought before WW1
7.5cm Feldkanone L/30 Krupp M 03 (648 guns)
7.5cm Feldkanone L/30 Krupp M 10 (88 guns - 40 of a lighter model for horse artillery)
7.5cm Gebirgskanone L/14 Krupp M 05 (146 guns)
7.5cm Gebirgskanone L/16 Rheinmetall M 10 (1 battery for test)
7.5cm Gebirgskanone L/16.7 Schneider M.P.D. (108 guns)
15cm Haubitze L/14 Krupp [1905] (18 howitzers)
10.5cm Belagerungskanone L/30 Krupp [1905] (18 guns)

b] German guns delivered during WW1 - 559 in total
7,5cm-Gebirgsgeschütz M 1914 L/16 Rheinmetall (18 guns)
7,7cm Gebirgskanone M 1915 L/17 Rheinmetall (7 batteries)
7.7cm Feldkanone 96 n/A L/27 Krupp/Erhardt
7.7cm Feldkanone 16 L/35 Rheinmetall
10.5cm leichte Feldhaubitze 98/09 L/16 Krupp
10.5cm leichte Feldhaubitze 16 L/22 Rheinmetall
10,5cm-Gebirgshaubitze L/12 Krupp (2 batteries)
15cm schwere Feldhaubitze 13 L/14

c] Austrian guns delivered during the WW1
7,5cm M. 15 Gebirgskanone Skoda (144 guns)
7cm M. 99 Gebirgskanone Skoda (20 guns)
10.5cm M. 16 Gebirgshaubitze Skoda (40 howitzers)
15cm Feldhaubitze M. 14 Skoda (12 howitzers)

d] old guns
12cm Haubitze L/11.6 Krupp M. 1892 (72 howitzers)
7.5cm Feldkanone L/27 Krupp M 1873
87mm Feldkanone L/24 Krupp M 1873
7.5cm Gebirgskanone M 1873
7cm Gebirgsgeschütz M 1890

e] captured guns
many Russian and British guns and some French guns were captured: some of them were used by Turkish Army

Many of the guns a] and d] were lost during Balkan Wars.
Last edited by adolpheit on 11 Oct 2006 21:54, edited 1 time in total.

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The Edge
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Post by The Edge » 11 Oct 2006 20:40

How about Skoda M.14/T in 105mm? :roll:

Did Turks ordered them in 1912 and got some number before WWI?
(apart these seized by Austro-Hungarian officials in 1914)

BTW, small mistake - I'm sure you meant "before" WWI :wink:

adolpheit
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Post by adolpheit » 11 Oct 2006 21:58

Thanks for "before".
I'm not sure, byt Turkey may have received some Skoda howitzers before WW1. Perhaps 18 howitzers, but I don't remember where I read that number, so I cannot chek.

stevebecker
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Post by stevebecker » 12 Oct 2006 09:14

Mates,

Is there some ID of the Mountain guns used by the defenders at Rafa and Madghaba.

All that is mentioned in sourses is a four gun mountain battery in both battles?

Cheers

S.B

Tosun Saral
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Post by Tosun Saral » 13 Oct 2006 14:57

In the Book "Top ve Topçu Atış Okulu 150nci Yıl Hatırası 1795-1945, s. 128" (150th Anniversary of Artillary and Artillary War School 1795-1945, p. 128) I found this information about guns in Turkish Army
At the beginning of 1914 there were:
Number trademark fire per gun
344 7,5 30 Krupp field 900
52 7,5 30 Schneider field 900
92 7,5/14 Krupp mountain 867
18 10,5 field obus 1147
2 10.5 Krupp obus 466
2 10,5 Austrian obus 229
12 15 Heavy obus
1 5.7 armoured motorized with tower ( This one is the first motorized gun and served at Erzurum.)
total : 523

adolpheit
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Post by adolpheit » 13 Oct 2006 16:42

Really many thanks. I have looking for the strenght of Turkish artillery at the beginning of WW1 since I begun my research about WW1 in the East!
Maybe you can solve two other problems I have.
Do you know the technical datas of a field gun obtained by Turkish army during or after Balkan Wars: 7.5cm Krupp M. 1911. AFIK it was a lighter version of M. 1903 for horse batteries.
Do you know the caliber of the Krupp field guns bought by Turkish Army in the second half of 19th century: 75mm and 87mm or 8cm (78.5mm) and 9cm (88mm)?
The sources I have are very confused about this topic.

Thanks.

Tosun Saral
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Post by Tosun Saral » 31 Oct 2006 14:11

Here is a Schneider exibited in the Gallipoli Open Air National Museum. The photo is shooted by Virtual tourist member Simon.
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/b663e/1c1cb1/

adolpheit
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Post by adolpheit » 01 Nov 2006 09:40

I can make a mistake, but that gun looks like a Krupp, not a Schneider gun.

Tosun Saral
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Post by Tosun Saral » 02 Nov 2006 11:49

If I made a mistake plese forgive me. I am not an artillarist but a signal officer. I just thought that it was Schneider. You can be right because you are the master.

adolpheit
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Post by adolpheit » 03 Nov 2006 20:45

Don't worry. The problem is that I really would like to find an answer to the problem of these Turkish Schneider field guns.
As for the gun of your if you want my two cents, this is a Rheinmethall 7.7cm Feldkanone 16. Germany delivered many of them to Turkish Army during WW1.

Source of the picture : F.KOSAR, Artillerie im 20. Jahrhundert. 1. Leichte Feldgeschütze, Bonn, Bernard & Graefe Verlag 2004
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Tosun Saral
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Post by Tosun Saral » 03 Nov 2006 22:35

Two guns at Kocatepe Hill where Mustafa Kemal Pasha directed the Great Attack to invading Greek Armies in Aug. 22.1922. Turkish Armies were in Izmir in Sept. 9. 1922.
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Hoplophile
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Post by Hoplophile » 03 Nov 2006 22:47

The 1912 issue of Loebells Jahresberichte (an annual published in Berlin) contains two clues to the conundrum at hand.

On page 417 it tells the tale of 50 or so 75mm Schneider field guns that, while on their way from France to Serbia, were confiscated by the Ottoman authorities. These, which were part of an order for 160 such weapons that Serbia had ordered from Schneider in 1910, ended up being used by the Ottoman forces in Thrace.

On page 398, it provides a list of all of the modern field pieces serving with the armies that fought in the First Balkan War. This list, which is quite detailed, assigns no Schneider field guns at all to the Ottoman Army.

If these reports can be trusted, then it is reasonable to assume that the 36 Schneider field guns mentioned in the the list that Tosun was kind enough to supply were from the lot that was conflscated in transit.

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Post by stevebecker » 04 Nov 2006 02:14

Mate,

I would like to get this striaght in my head.

What are the 7.5 cm (75mm) Mountain guns used by the batteries of the Cavalry Divisions.
Are they mountain guns or light guns as per the 13 Pdr of the British?

Cheers

S.B

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